Lightweight 12ga SxS?

[Daniel Cary]

There are some beautiful doubles (Side by Sides) out there.
ie Rizzini's, Fabarm, Famars, etc .. 12 Gauge, personally. 6lbs. or Ultralight's 4lbs.

Would it not be in the best interest to use 3" Magnums? (Cracked stocks, etc.)
Thank You.

 

[Tango]

4 lbs, the handling would be horrible. 6 is probably the lower limit of practicality. I have an AyA that's a touch over 6 and a classic 2.5" chambered English gun that's 6lb 4oz. Both work well as they're very well balanced with longer barrels. I have a 20ga and 28ga SxS on order from Upland Gun Co, Italian RFM guns. Anxious to see how they turn out. The recent price increase on AyA has put them beyond reason fo me (+15% increase this year). Proper stock fit and balance are the key points, vs the raw weight number. Luckily I have a good stock of light 2.5" shells, but do note that they seem to be unobtanium these days with RST essentially not shipping anything.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Among currently manufactured pieces, I like the Rizzini Model 552.

I own a vintage (1988 made) Beretta Model 626E 12 gauge 3” Magnum boxlock ejector side by side with 30” barrels (left is full choke & right is modified choke) and a single selective trigger (inertia operated). It’s not heavy at all, and is quite comfortable to shoot. Even with Federal 3” Magnum copper plated O.O.O Buck shells. I use it for hunting everything from upland birds to waterfowl to Chital deer sized game. Too bad Beretta no longer manufactures side by sides.

 

[sureshot375]

What would be the use for this gun? An ultralight 12ga sxs is going to shoot like absolute garbage.

 

[Daniel Cary]

Idk about these 4lb broomsticks so much .. but I believe, ie (Rizzini BR550) 12 is a bit over 6lbs.
They have 3" chambers, I just read a Field review where they didn't suggest using them?

It wouldn't be used as a waterfowl double by any means, but If the 550 cracked from 3" Long Beard's, for example .. yikes.
Looking for a BR550 12 with 26" Barrels.

Thank you!

 

[WAB]

What would be the use for this gun? An ultralight 12ga sxs is going to shoot like absolute garbage.

It depends on what you mean by ultralight. A 2 1/2” 12 ga with 28” tubes is a pretty dynamic gun that still allows for decent control.

 

[WAB]

Idk about these 4lb broomsticks so much .. but I believe, ie (Rizzini BR550) 12 is a bit over 6lbs.
They have 3" chambers, I just read a Field review where they didn't suggest using them?

It wouldn't be used as a waterfowl double by any means, but If the 550 cracked from 3" Long Beard's, for example .. yikes.
Looking for a BR550 12 with 26" Barrels.

Thank you!

If you want to shoot 3” shells, you do not want a 6# 4oz 12 ga.. I don’t care what it is chambered, it is not the right weapon for that ammunition.

 

[Safari Dave]

A 12 gauge SXS double should weight at least 6 pounds or it is going to punish you severely.

You might was well be shooting a .500 NE if you are going to shoot 3" shells or, good lord, 3 1/2" shells.



If you play shotgun games with it (skeet, trap or clays) you would probably shoot at least 100 times on an outing. Most competition shooters use a double that weighs at least 7 1/2 pounds.

 

[Tango]

You want 1oz-1 1/8oz loads in a light English style SxS. When used as intended for pheasants, grouse, partridge etc, in a shotgun that fits the shooter, they're fabulous. Not sure why so many Americans feel the need to go to 3" Mag/ultra heavy loads for these types of birds in light guns (or any guns)?

 

[Daniel Cary]

I came across a Fabarm Beta Classic, 12. .. I was not looking for this by any means, however, it fit & priced really well. Beautiful use for bird, field, & simply throwing clays.

Why I'd use 3"? no reason in particular .. just curious if it's not wise (for the shotguns sake)?
Thank you, for all the above.

 

[Nevada Mike]

If you are considering a bird gun (for upland birds), a light 12, 16, or 20 is a good choice. I have lightweight SxS guns in all these gauges.

I own, for instance, a lightweight self-opening H. Atkin 12 bore that weighs 6 lbs., 1 oz. It is proofed for 2-1/2" 1-1/16 oz. loads and performs very well up to proof limits. I would NOT like it to be any lighter. Some of my 16 and 20 bore guns weigh as little as 5-1/2 lbs. and I use 1 oz. or 7/8 oz. loads for hunting and 3/4 oz. loads for practice at clay targets. I would find a sub-5 lb. gun difficult to shoot well.

If you want a turkey gun, I think you should get a gun that is heavier and chambered and choked for turkey loads. Sort of a special purpose gun, which you will probably not want to carry around hunting quail, grouse, or other upland birds.

 

[KJE81]

4 lbs, the handling would be horrible. 6 is probably the lower limit of practicality. I have an AyA that's a touch over 6 and a classic 2.5" chambered English gun that's 6lb 4oz. Both work well as they're very well balanced with longer barrels. I have a 20ga and 28ga SxS on order from Upland Gun Co, Italian RFM guns. Anxious to see how they turn out. The recent price increase on AyA has put them beyond reason fo me (+15% increase this year). Proper stock fit and balance are the key points, vs the raw weight number. Luckily I have a good stock of light 2.5" shells, but do note that they seem to be unobtanium these days with RST essentially not shipping anything.

I also have a gun on order from RFM, a Venus in 20 gauge. Which model did you order?

 

[Daniel Cary]

If you are considering a bird gun (for upland birds), a light 12, 16, or 20 is a good choice. I have lightweight SxS guns in all these gauges.

I own, for instance, a lightweight self-opening H. Atkin 12 bore that weighs 6 lbs., 1 oz. It is proofed for 2-1/2" 1-1/16 oz. loads and performs very well up to proof limits. I would NOT like it to be any lighter. Some of my 16 and 20 bore guns weigh as little as 5-1/2 lbs. and I use 1 oz. or 7/8 oz. loads for hunting and 3/4 oz. loads for practice at clay targets. I would find a sub-5 lb. gun difficult to shoot well.

If you want a turkey gun, I think you should get a gun that is heavier and chambered and choked for turkey loads. Sort of a special purpose gun, which you will probably not want to carry around hunting quail, grouse, or other upland birds.

Those Henry Atkins are beautiful ..

 

[Tango]

I also have a gun on order from RFM, a Venus in 20 gauge. Which model did you order?

I've got a matching pair of the Venus guns on order; a 20 and 28 both in classic English style with 29" barrels. Can't wait!

 

[Rimbaud]

I have an AyA round action model 2 in 12 gauge. It’s light and perfect for upland. I had the shotgun fitted to me, and it made an extraordinary difference with handling and recoil reduction. I shoot 2 3/4 #6 to #8 shot, but it can handle 3” shells. I would not hesitate to use the heavier shells.

 

[Daniel Cary]

"Off topic" .. is there a disadvantage to a 28ga .. Simply from a Market, value, or ammunition standpoint?

 

[Daniel Cary]

I have an AyA round action model 2 in 12 gauge. It’s light and perfect for upland. I had the shotgun fitted to me, and it made an extraordinary difference with handling and recoil reduction. I shoot 2 3/4 #6 to #8 shot, but it can handle 3” shells. I would not hesitate to use the heavier shells.

I had to look them up .. beautiful machines!
.. love these Round Body's & pleased to hear your confident, if you choose 3"

 

[KJE81]

I've got a matching pair of the Venus guns on order; a 20 and 28 both in classic English style with 29" barrels. Can't wait!

That sounds great! Mine is a 20 gauge with 28" barrels and in english style in stocking.

 

[Red Leg]

Quality SxS's are scaled for the intended game. The classic 12 bore British game gun was choked with a very open right barrel (sometimes even cylinder though typically between what we would call IC and skeet1). The left barrel was choked typically what we would call modified or improved modified. It would weigh 6 1/4 to 6 3/4 lbs and was proofed for 2.5" shells with a max load of 1 1/8 ounces. When properly fitted, they shoot as an extension of hands and eye and are perfect for everything up to driven pheasants (no, you do not need 1 1/4 ounce loads for pheasants).

James MacNaughton game gun circa 1900 - 30" barrels choked roughly skeet1 and light full, 2 1/2" -1 1/8 oz proof. It has taken many hundreds of walked up and driven pheasants.

Next up in scale are what were called pigeon guns. They were designed for bringing down hard driving pigeons within a circle in competition. They were tightly choked and were proofed for 2 3/4" or 3" loads with a max load of 1 1/4 ounces regardless of shell length. A field version of these guns were also used on waterfowl. They typically weigh 6 3/4 to 7 1/2 pounds with 30 - 32" tubes.

William Cashmore "Nitro" 3" chambers but [roofed for 1 1/4 ounce loads. Built before WWI, it is choked light full and full. It hits like a hammer and has paid for itself a couple of times over in the pigeon ring.

Modern waterfowl SxS's are fairly specialized and most modern ones are designed for modern three-inch loads. They tend to be heavy, but a well-balanced quality one will still be useful for walked up game such as sharptail that often flush at thirty yards or more.

This a Connecticut Shotgun 3" 12 bore with choke tubes and 32" barrels. Like most modern SxS's it will digest steel shot, but I never use the stuff on waterfowl. 1 1/4 ounce loads of number six heavy shot are decisive on ducks as are number 4 or 2 shot on geese. In fact I have killed quite a few geese with the number 6 load.

 

[WAB]

"Off topic" .. is there a disadvantage to a 28ga .. Simply from a Market, value, or ammunition standpoint?

The 3/4 oz 28 ga load is a perfectly balanced charge and throws excellent patterns. The problem with 28’s is that many are far too light to be shot well. Find a well balanced 28 that has enough heft for a smooth mount and swing and you have a treasure.