Limpopo Buffalo

[PARA45]

I’m not an agent or affiliated with any company whatsoever, but would be happy to help anyone that feels they may benefit from it. Also, being clear, I don’t wish to alienate any SA operators. There are some good buff hunts available there I’ve taken buff in the APNR adjacent to Kruger. Not cheap. Free range buffalo but not wild Africa. Still, a wonderful hunt. I’ve also been shut out on a buffalo hunt in SA. Skittish as a whitetail and thick brush. Every man makes his decision on the type of hunt he wishes for.

I agree and respect what you are saying. I would gladly receive suggestions to a hunt I'm asking questions about. You could send a PM, and no harm no fowl to anyone. What I'm trying to say is that this is no different than someone asking for suggestions on doing their taxidermy in Africa or in the US. We provide suggestions based on our experience, and in most cases recommend a taxidermy.

I'm sure most of us on this forum have hunted SA and some of us on this thread have hunted buffalo in SA. Now they have venture into other countries, species, etc, etc, and that's cool. But don't laugh (not directed at you @Flipper Dude) because that animal is in a 20-30K fence farm, or its not indigenous to SA. How many on this forum have gone to TX to hunt Nilgai. Yeah, I get it, you get the meat, and they are tough to hunt. But they are not from TX.

I remember an old Chief in the Air Force telling me that if you are going to criticize something, have a constructive solution readily available.

 

[Flipper Dude]

Buffalo hunting ain’t about the buffalo. It’s about the hunt. That’s what you’ll cherish,,,,,,or regret. My $.02.

This is literally all I said in response to the OP.

As for his question, the buffs are very large, but could use more years (my opinion).

 

[gizmo]

This is literally all I said in response to the OP.

As for his question, the buffs are very large, but could use more years (my opinion).

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with what you specifically said, hence why I wanted to clarify I wasn’t firing shots across your bow. I also 100% agree with your original statement and would further add that your words apply to 100% of all hunting.

 

[375Fox]

The question was whether the bulls were good RSA bulls not what one's opinion of hunting RSA is. I'd sure love the keyboard warriors to put their money where their mouths are and start paying for peoples hunts who cannot afford to hunt places like Moz, Zam, and the like. I'd venture a guess no one who piped up from the peanut gallery has a clue what outfitter or the size of the operation these bulls are on is. it may have been mentioned by now after two pages of belittling this guy for asking a question on a hunt he can afford or has the time to do but sure wasn't when I had read enough to know where this was going. Ya'll do more to ruin peoples hopes of getting to go on safaris by demeaning and belittling them when they ask questions, then to ensure to get those you miss do the same on their posts when they dare to post pictures with animals that YOU don't approve of. Maybe if you don't have anything constructive to add to a conversation you should show some discretion and stay out of it. I've tried to bite my lip on this issue as of late but enough is enough. Get over yourselves.
To answer your question both are fantastic bulls and yes they are a touch young however RSA is different in that the hunting is done predominantly on game farms where private management of wildlife is different than on huge hunting blocks of wilderness areas, where shooting a younger bull would be not kosher. In RSA many bulls this age are taken to reduce herd numbers, change genetics in a herd, or many different reasons.
If you trust your PH, have a good report with him, and are confident that he knows what YOUR expectations are for what you consider a good hunt; go for it. Don't let the pretentious self righteous dissuade you.

The question is what makes a buffalo a good bull. It’s more than just the trophy size to me. A person should know what they are getting into. Depending on the person, the naivety can wear off and you come to the realization you’re further behind because you put money towards the wrong hunt. You say “don’t let the pretentious self righteous dissuade you.” I’d say to question the advice of someone who bases all decisions on cost alone. If you embrace the victim mentality that certain hunts are out of reach it will hold you back.

 

[375Fox]

Furthermore you have no idea what offer the OP is being given. How does anyone know what the hunt will cost him and if anyone can beat it.
Case in point, prior to covid I was booked to go on a buffalo hunt is RSA with an outfitter that I have known for several years. It was going to be an outstanding hunt for the chance at some respectable bulls in very very thick cover. I was offered it for 6k all in. I booked it but Covid unfortunately cancelled it. You won’t find that anywhere outside of RSA on a publicly advertised price (and it was). I have hunted buffalo in RSA and very much enjoyed it. I would like to hunt them in Zim also but haven’t been able to as of yet. Even though I would prefer to do my next in Zim or Moz my life circumstances haven’t allowed me to do it yet. That doesn’t mean that if the right deal didn’t come along during a time that I could go for significantly less money I wouldn’t go back to RSA. I absolutely would just to get to go hunt and be I. Africa again.
I understand where you are coming from and I don’t necessarily disagree with some of what you are saying nor am I throwing stones at you specifically but…. It’s more in the manner of which many choose to say it and the pretentious attitude some on here get when something falls outside of their wheelhouse. Many in a certain group tends to pipe up on every thread they possibly find to have another opportunity to try and impress everyone else on how much of a self proclaimed great white hunter they are. It’s ridiculous and discourages a hellava lot of people new to the site that know nothing about hunting Africa other than they have always dreamed of going. They then walk away with the feeling that if RSA is their only option they are a lesser hunter for it and somehow they are doing something wrong or immoral/unethical by choosing to hunt RSA. That’s not an assumption either as I have had that exact conversation with several people over this exact issue. Not to mention you have outfitters on here than pay good money to advertise their RSA livelihoods just to have some self righteous prick crap all over it every chance they get so they can show off for their computer buddies. If I was an RSA outfitter I’d be pissed. Those throwing stones have no skin in the game nor do they contribute anything of value to these conversations no matter how much experience as a client they have had.

I should also add I find your comments very disingenuous since you invested in put and take hunting practices on your ranch in Texas. It’s not your first attack on “self righteous prick” clients that don’t want to see money go toward these operations instead of operations that hunt self sustaining animals. I see value in advising hunters what to look for and what to avoid if they value how they spend their money. A trophy on the wall should be more than a set of horns.

 

[grand veneur]

It is understandable that some defend their business and feel itself affected by some of the posts.

If on a hunting Forum you post pictures of buffaloes standing quietly in an enclosure and ask if they are good trophies, you have to expect that there will be some reactions from members. If you want to avoid something like that, you have to say in advance what it is about and that you are aware that both of these specimens are tame. Many of us are old hunters and, due to their cultural environment, have a completely different perception of hunting where it's not just about harvesting trophies, no matter how. It is understandable that some of us have no understanding of livestock breeding for hunting purposes and the appropriate facilities for it. As others have already written, it's not just about killing a special animal and then having horns on the wall.

 

[gizmo]

The question is what makes a buffalo a good bull. It’s more than just the trophy size to me. A person should know what they are getting into. Depending on the person, the naivety can wear off and you come to the realization you’re further behind because you put money towards the wrong hunt. You say “don’t let the pretentious self righteous dissuade you.” I’d say to question the advice of someone who bases all decisions on cost alone. If you embrace the victim mentality that certain hunts are out of reach it will hold you back.

It literally asks, “Are these decent quality Bulls for SA ?” That’s in the OP. The title is “Limpopo Buffalo” annnd he says that he’s considering hunting with an RSA outfitter that he has previously hunted with. Through deductive reasoning one can assume this is about these specific bulls, with a specific outfitter, in RSA. No where does it ask anyone’s opinion hunting in RSA. It’s asking about the two buffalo pictured.

Now I don’t necessarily have a problem, nor does anyone else I would think, that politely suggesting different hunts in other places would be inappropriate if done tastefully and respectfully.

But that being said that wasn’t what he was asking nor is it relevant to his topic. He asked a specific question and people jumped in with their usual anti-RSA and “I’m better than you” rhetoric. That’s what I and a hellava lot of others have a problem with. Within 4 or so responses the usuals pipe up asking “what their names are” and there the shit talking started.

You can try to defend it all you want but the fact is he wasn’t asking anyone’s opinion of buffalo hunting in RSA he was simply asking if the two buffalo pictured were good for RSA and what a good buffalo looks like. Everything else was nothing more than people piping up with their unsolicited opinions of RSA buffalo hunting.

I’ll also note that the OP is a new member and just got belittled by people that have been around long enough to know better. Additionally, he hasn’t responded since except for thanking 1 person for giving him advice on judging buffalo. Gee, can’t imagine why? Especially after the warm reception he received from several who should know better. It’s embarrassing to see how some on this site act towards fellow hunters for asking nothing more than a question. It’s also incredibly rude, not only to the OP, but to every single RSA outfitter that pays a lot of money every year to advertise on this site.

I’m shocked still that myself and many others have to constantly defend other members especially new members and predominantly RSA outfitter’s from people who can’t act like gentleman or adults. Especially considering who some of these people were and are in their private lives that instigate such things. One would think many would have more class than that. I’ve always considered this a gentlemanly group and that is what separates us from all the other hunting sites. It’s sad how many potentially great members are turned off by this kind of crap. I know I’m not speaking out of turn on this as it is almost always one of the main topics that gets discussed when I visit with fellow AH members and it’s a heck of a lot of them. It makes us all look bad and is completely uncalled for.

 

[gizmo]

It is understandable that some defend their business and feel itself affected by some of the posts.

If on a hunting Forum you post pictures of buffaloes standing quietly in an enclosure and ask if they are good trophies, you have to expect that there will be some reactions from members. If you want to avoid something like that, you have to say in advance what it is about and that you are aware that both of these specimens are tame. Many of us are old hunters and, due to their cultural environment, have a completely different perception of hunting where it's not just about harvesting trophies, no matter how. It is understandable that some of us have no understanding of livestock breeding for hunting purposes and the appropriate facilities for it. As others have already written, it's not just about killing a special animal and then having horns on the wall.

Well first he literally did and furthermore asked a specific question. Second no one has to explain crap to anyone else. Common decency in human behavior dictates that with a few exceptions if you don’t have anything constructive to say in a conversation that isn’t about you than keep quiet. Third you have no idea where these bulls are nor under what circumstances they live or would potentially hunted under. I’ll give you that there is a 99.99999% chance it will be a high fence game farm but for all you know they could be free ranging on a game farm of 50,000+ acres and yes those do exist as I’ve been on some. I’ve also hunted completely free ranging animals in RSA and Namibia for what it’s worth.
So no I’m sorry sir but I do not agree with your justification for people acting the way they do on some of these threads.

 

[spike.t]

For the OP here are a couple of photos of old bulls....you can possibly make out the "roman nose" old bulls will have , along with grey on face,loss of hair, scars and tattered ears etc ...

 

[coreydb]

The pictures might be intentional to entice you to commit to a buffalo hunt. The horns are very nice but the center of the horns, called the "boss" is a hard, solid bone shield that forms when the horns of adult male Cape buffalos fuse in the middle of their head. The boss covers the entire top of the buffalo's head and is used as protection in defense. The larger the boss, the older the bull is. Horns come in all shapes and sizes, so don't be misled about which one to take.

 

[gizmo]

I should also add I find your comments very disingenuous since you invested in put and take hunting practices on your ranch in Texas. It’s not your first attack on “self righteous prick” clients that don’t want to see money go toward these operations instead of operations that hunt self sustaining animals. I see value in advising hunters what to look for and what to avoid if they value how they spend their money. A trophy on the wall should be more than a set of horns.

You are out of your mind if you think for one second I want to see anyone be unsuccessful much less those in the wild places of the world.
I know exactly what I do for a living, I don’t hide it , and am very proud of what I do and have built. Furthermore, you know absolutely nothing about me or my businesses nor have you ever met me.
Your damn right I’ve made issue out of people that constantly find it necessary to boast of how much better they are than everyone else because they hunt such and such.
You clearly miss the point of any comments I have ever made. I well and truly couldn’t care less about your personal attack on me. It has no baring on my life whatsoever but yes, you and I have been cross in the past over ungentlemanly behavior. I will always stand up for what is right and made a living out of it for many years. You can attack me all you like and attempt to justify childish behavior all you would like.
You, I, and the vast majority of everyone else see’s that type of behavior for exactly what it is, being pretentious and a braggart. No one is impressed.

 

[BigKev15]

The question was whether the bulls were good RSA bulls not what one's opinion of hunting RSA is. I'd sure love the keyboard warriors to put their money where their mouths are and start paying for peoples hunts who cannot afford to hunt places like Moz, Zam, and the like. I'd venture a guess no one who piped up from the peanut gallery has a clue what outfitter or the size of the operation these bulls are on is. it may have been mentioned by now after two pages of belittling this guy for asking a question on a hunt he can afford or has the time to do but sure wasn't when I had read enough to know where this was going. Ya'll do more to ruin peoples hopes of getting to go on safaris by demeaning and belittling them when they ask questions, then to ensure to get those you miss do the same on their posts when they dare to post pictures with animals that YOU don't approve of. Maybe if you don't have anything constructive to add to a conversation you should show some discretion and stay out of it. I've tried to bite my lip on this issue as of late but enough is enough. Get over yourselves.
To answer your question both are fantastic bulls and yes they are a touch young however RSA is different in that the hunting is done predominantly on game farms where private management of wildlife is different than on huge hunting blocks of wilderness areas, where shooting a younger bull would be not kosher. In RSA many bulls this age are taken to reduce herd numbers, change genetics in a herd, or many different reasons.
If you trust your PH, have a good report with him, and are confident that he knows what YOUR expectations are for what you consider a good hunt; go for it. Don't let the pretentious self righteous dissuade you.

I applaud you for your well thought out and accurate response to the original poster's question. The hunting community need more people like you who can answer a question without interjecting negative barbs and such.

 

[375Fox]

I applaud you for your well thought out and accurate response to the original poster's question. The hunting community need more people like you who can answer a question without interjecting negative barbs and such.

I understand supporting his opinion, but did you actually read his posts? I’m assuming you must have glossed over calling individuals he disagrees with keyboard warriors and pretentious self righteous pricks when you applaud him for not interjecting negative barbs into the conversation. I don’t ask for people to pay for my hunts. I’m not sure why it’s acceptable and cheered on if you agree with a certain viewpoint.

 

[Red Leg]

You must have missed the whole “what are their names” and an entire page of other BS unnecessary comments and again he simply asked if they were good RSA bulls, not what people’s opinions of hunting RSA is. Had he asked “are these two bulls good AND what are your opinions on hunting RSA” that would be a different story, but it’s not.
Can hunts be had for around the same price sure at times. I have seen them myself and talked to, done business with, and even set up hunts for people on them considering it’s been a pretty good part of my business for about 10 years but… apples to apples wild hunts are 99% of the time more expensive and sometimes require more time to do them (obviously not always depending upon the hunt). It’s not just the hunt either; airfare, shipping, DPC, logistics, and on and on are almost always more expensive and time consuming.
The thing is when people pipe up a lot of assumptions are made when the reality is those doing the blabbing almost never know the person asking the question’s situation. I love how people assume, “well if a guy can afford or do this than he can afford or do that”. 1. It’s not your money 2. That always isn’t the case, maybe there are health issues involved, maybe someone has to go for business a couple times a year (I know for a fact there are a few here that fall into this category) and their company is picking up the bulk of their travel expenses 3. It’s no one but that person’s business how they choose to do something
Again if folks want to start paying for other’s hunts get after it. If not, be respectful. There is nothing wrong with having an opinion or a personal set of beliefs or individual morals. There is everything wrong with trying to shove them down everyone who doesn’t agree with them’s throat and several in the peanut gallery on this thread are terrible about it.
If this guy was being told these were some super wild Selous Buffalo in RSA on eight trillion unfenced acres and that Ruark himself was going to come back from the dead to be on this hunt hunt sure…. Lett’r rip but….. that’s not the issue and having considered that he has hunted RSA multiple times he has a pretty good idea of what RSA is about.
There is nothing in the OP to indicate there is any fowl play involved. He simply asked if the buffalo were good for RSA and stated he wasn’t knowledgeable enough on Buffalo to know. Within a few posts he’s being asked if, “they have names” and there it starts. It’s childish and gets very very old.

I wrote the "do they have names" comment and would do so again. That is my immediate reaction whenever an outfitter posts a picture of a particular animal - cape buffalo or whitetail or whatever with an offer that it is available to be shot. Just not my thing, and I am surprised by those who think that is a great potential "hunting" experience. It is absolutely possible that the outfitter sent him photos of the type of bull he could expect from his or the self-supporting herd from which he buys a quota. I would suggest that would be a point worth discussing.

However, that opinion about shooting a catalogued whatever has nothing to do with whether or not a quality buffalo hunt can take place in a fenced ranch or conservancy in South Africa. Of course it can. I wrote an article about just such a hunt in African Hunting Gazette, and posted the report here on the site. The price will be in the same general category of a put and take operation. But a come shoot this bull offer would not be a place I would start to find such a hunt.

And yes, with respect to the OP's question, however big they might be, those bulls would have been considered young where I have hunted.

Thread 'SOUTH AFRICA: Up Close In The Limpopo - Hunting Cape Buffalo With Phillip Bronkhorst'

Jul 9, 2018

The morning started like many buffalo hunts anywhere with the fresh tracks of a small herd crossing a dirt trace cut through the bush. Phillip Bronkhorst, Pieter Taylor (one of Phillip's PHs), our tracker Josias, Rickey (a young videographer in training), and your faithful correspondent bailed off the truck to take up the spoor. We had gone barely half a mile when the morning's fickle wind graced the back of our necks. Large animals could be heard running off in the distance. We had all started to relax and consider our next move when Josias suddenly knelt to one side pointing into the...

• Red Leg
• Replies: 49
• Forum: Hunting reports Africa

• 

 

[gizmo]

I understand supporting his opinion, but did you actually read his posts? I’m assuming you must have glossed over calling individuals he disagrees with keyboard warriors and pretentious self righteous pricks when you applaud him for not interjecting negative barbs into the conversation. I don’t ask for people to pay for my hunts. I’m not sure why it’s acceptable and cheered on if you agree with a certain viewpoint.

You are correct I absolutely did but in response to the way several people responded to the op as well as myself and others who posted a response to defend the OP.
It’s funny how those who throw the first stone get the most butt hurt when called out over it.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander. It’s hypocritical to say such things then get mad when someone confronts you about YOUR statements.
The truth is I don’t know you but from what I have understood you have had quite the accomplished hunting career as a client. It’s unfortunate as I’m sure you have some great information, advice, and experiences to share that myself and others would probably love to listen to.
However, when people immediately start being snarky and pretentious on posts that have absolutely nothing to do with what you start taking jabs at you tend to loose all credibility.
I own my attitude and am well aware that I can be very abrasive, cocky, and mouthy but….. I am only that way (perhaps with the exception of a bit of cockiness, not that I am saying that is a virtue as it is not) in response to others attitudes.
It would likely shock you to know that I much prefer to listen than to speak but there are certain things that I will not keep my mouth shut about, whether it be on the internet and most assuredly directly in person. Anyone who knows me can attest to that.
I absolutely cannot stand when people try to place themselves over others because they feel they are somehow superior because they do or don’t do a certain thing.
I have no problem with someone making a suggestion to others if they think they can help them provided it’s done with good intentions and for a constructive purpose. But when it’s done in a demeaning manner that is a separate matter and is uncalled for.
I would also venture to say that you and I have very similar opinions on the vast majority of subjects as it relates to hunting though I recognize there are a few things we differ greatly over. The difference is I would never tell you that yours are all wrong and I’m right and somehow superior to you or anyone else as a result of my beliefs. That is unfortunately what is said whether directly or indirectly every time this pissing match starts by many of those I am taking issue with.
I recognize people have the right to their opinions and mine are no better or worse than anyone else’s. I will certainly stand for what I believe but I won’t demean others without provocation. That being said I am not about to let experienced veteran members, nor anyone else, demean and demoralize other members for the sake of self righteousness.
I am very proud of this site and very proud of being a sponsor. As a general rule, as stated earlier, this has and is a gentleman’s site save few exceptions.

 

[gizmo]

I wrote the "do they have names" comment and would do so again. That is my immediate reaction whenever an outfitter posts a picture of a particular animal - cape buffalo or whitetail or whatever with an offer that it is available to be shot. Just not my thing, and I am surprised by those who think that is a great potential "hunting" experience. It is absolutely possible that the outfitter sent him photos of the type of bull he could expect from his or the self-supporting herd from which he buys a quota. I would suggest that would be a point worth discussing.

However, that opinion about shooting a catalogued whatever has nothing to do with whether or not a quality buffalo hunt can take place in a fenced ranch or conservancy in South Africa. Of course it can. I wrote an article about just such a hunt in African Hunting Gazette, and posted the report here on the site. The price will be in the same general category of a put and take operation. But a come shoot this bull offer would not be a place I would start to find such a hunt.

And yes, with respect to the OP's question, however big they might be, those bulls would have been considered young where I have hunted.

Thread 'SOUTH AFRICA: Up Close In The Limpopo - Hunting Cape Buffalo With Phillip Bronkhorst'

Jul 9, 2018

The morning started like many buffalo hunts anywhere with the fresh tracks of a small herd crossing a dirt trace cut through the bush. Phillip Bronkhorst, Pieter Taylor (one of Phillip's PHs), our tracker Josias, Rickey (a young videographer in training), and your faithful correspondent bailed off the truck to take up the spoor. We had gone barely half a mile when the morning's fickle wind graced the back of our necks. Large animals could be heard running off in the distance. We had all started to relax and consider our next move when Josias suddenly knelt to one side pointing into the...

• Red Leg
• Replies: 49
• Forum: Hunting reports Africa

• 

And to what purpose and necessity?

 

[wesheltonj]

I’ve looked that those two bulls. Unfortunately, I can’t blow up the photos large enough to get a good look at the boss for hardness and hair. Others, probably with better eyesight than me say they are couple years too young.

I don’t have a problem hunting RSA, as I have. It was a very enjoyable first class experience that you would not find anywhere else in Africa. But I would not hunt any property that the animals would not qualify for Inclusion into Rowland Ward.

And I don’t have a problem targeting a specific animal on camera. I do it every year hunting white-tail in Texas, but if I saw a bigger one than I was targeting I would shoot it instead. And I did it Croatia too. I passed on a Red Deer that the guide called in walking and calling for the chance for the one in the photo. And the one in the photo, will soon be coming to Texas.

 

[Red Leg]

And to what purpose and necessity?

Because I find advertising specific animals to be killed is somewhat the antithesis of what I consider hunting and fair chase. That in no way means that he has to agree with me, but I would hope the OP would indeed reflect on it. He has many choices in South Africa.

As @wesheltonj notes, I too use a trail camera. But a deer on my screen has a lot of central Texas to choose from other than my place.

 

[375Fox]

You are correct I absolutely did but in response to the way several people responded to the op as well as myself and others who posted a response to defend the OP.
It’s funny how those who throw the first stone get the most butt hurt when called out over it.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander. It’s hypocritical to say such things then get mad when someone confronts you about YOUR statements.
The truth is I don’t know you but from what I have understood you have had quite the accomplished hunting career as a client. It’s unfortunate as I’m sure you have some great information, advice, and experiences to share that myself and others would probably love to listen to.
However, when people immediately start being snarky and pretentious on posts that have absolutely nothing to do with what you start taking jabs at you tend to loose all credibility.
I own my attitude and am well aware that I can be very abrasive, cocky, and mouthy but….. I am only that way (perhaps with the exception of a bit of cockiness, not that I am saying that is a virtue as it is not) in response to others attitudes.
It would likely shock you to know that I much prefer to listen than to speak but there are certain things that I will not keep my mouth shut about, whether it be on the internet and most assuredly directly in person. Anyone who knows me can attest to that.
I absolutely cannot stand when people try to place themselves over others because they feel they are somehow superior because they do or don’t do a certain thing.
I have no problem with someone making a suggestion to others if they think they can help them provided it’s done with good intentions and for a constructive purpose. But when it’s done in a demeaning manner that is a separate matter and is uncalled for.
I would also venture to say that you and I have very similar opinions on the vast majority of subjects as it relates to hunting though I recognize there are a few things we differ greatly over. The difference is I would never tell you that yours are all wrong and I’m right and somehow superior to you or anyone else as a result of my beliefs. That is unfortunately what is said whether directly or indirectly every time this pissing match starts by many of those I am taking issue with.
I recognize people have the right to their opinions and mine are no better or worse than anyone else’s. I will certainly stand for what I believe but I won’t demean others without provocation. That being said I am not about to let experienced veteran members, nor anyone else, demean and demoralize other members for the sake of self righteousness.
I am very proud of this site and very proud of being a sponsor. As a general rule, as stated earlier, this has and is a gentleman’s site save few exceptions.

I’ve been through this before with you where you’ll pretend to take high road. I find it difficult to believe it’s a genuine response based on past behavior and particularly with your continued talk of self righteousness. Some of comments on this thread are unnecessary, but I’m unwilling to support practices simply because they make hunting affordable. I’m particularly unwilling to support those practices when they are dishonestly marketed as I feel is often the case in Limpopo. I’ve made mistakes in South Africa and hopefully someone else can avoid them. Maybe the OP fully understood what these buffalo hunts are from his PH but likely did not or he wouldn’t have asked the question. There is often an attempt to shut down any discussion if it doesn’t line up with the marketing narrative with game farming (as you are attempting). There is also an attempt to use class warfare to make it acceptable (again as you are attempting). Unfortunately most individuals here have picked a side and support it regardless just like politics. Applauding you for not injecting negativity when you call individuals you disagree with keyboard warriors, pretentious pricks, elitist snobs is a perfect example. My arguments are usually very logical. Some individuals want to avoid logic particularly if it means accepting a different reality about a past hunt or trophy. If that means I lose credibility for a period of time with those individuals so be it. If they continue hunting they may have a different view point eventually. You yourself lose credibility when you start making emotional arguments instead of logical arguments. I find it very difficult to forget past arguments you’ve made rather than admit making even a partial mistake. You can continue thinking you’re helping your side. I’ll continue posting what I think helps someone make the best decision even if they choose not to listen.

 

[gizmo]

With respect Joe that proves my point. It had absolutely nothing to do with anything the new member asked and was completely unnecessary and off topic. I would go as far as to say rude.
I know I get wound up and will beat a dead horse, to death?, I guess I could say. I am also equally as guilty at giving my unsolicited opinion, hence this situation. That being said being polite doesn’t cost anyone anything and it sure seems there is a group of people who should know better, that feel the need to completely crap all over people anytime anything comes up that they feel is beneath them and shame those who disagree.
Now you are a grown man and entitled to your opinions but taking a dig at people for no purpose other than to belittle them has no place and is grossly inappropriate. I also get that, that is my opinion as well so there is that. I have just always hoped many of you that I have had a tremendous amount of respect for and considered gentleman would be above such petty things. Unfortunately, it seems to be the opposite more often than not.