Live Animal Relocation to USA

[Wishfulthinker580]

Exceptions to the rule? The conservation success on private land in Texas can not be contested. I have a vested interest in private property rights. If it were not for the fenced, private ownership of game in South Africa AH would not exist. Their model mirrors ours and it's all about private property rights.

Stop making this about something it’s not. The RSA model is a success because it’s THEIR wildlife that have been saved. I’ve already said that there as been a slight contribution from American operations but at the end of the day the end is not justified by the means…

 

[Elkeater]

@Wishfulthinker580 it’s completely acceptable to have an opinion on this matter however one aspect of conservation that I haven’t seen be part of the argument is land value. So I hate subdivisions. I live in one for my wife’s sake but I really don’t like them. In Texas I hunt an exotic ranch of 18,000 acres. It used to be a sheep and goat ranch but when wool prices tanked in the 90s they had to get rid of all their sheep and the ranch couldn’t remain profitable. The country is not for cattle. Steep rocky and brushy. Sheep and goat country. So two options. Sell the ranch to potential real estate investors or find a different business. They switched to exotics and hunting and now have a cash flow that allows them to keep those acres in the family’s 6th generation and out of the risk of being turned into a bunch of “ranchettes” with little value for any kind of wildlife. Just another item to consider though im
Sure you won’t change your mind on this one and I don’t want to argue but I’m a big proponent of keeping subdivisions at bay.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

@Wishfulthinker580 it’s completely acceptable to have an opinion on this matter however one aspect of conservation that I haven’t seen be part of the argument is land value. So I hate subdivisions. I live in one for my wife’s sake but I really don’t like them. In Texas I hunt an exotic ranch of 18,000 acres. It used to be a sheep and goat ranch but when wool prices tanked in the 90s they had to get rid of all their sheep and the ranch couldn’t remain profitable. The country is not for cattle. Steep rocky and brushy. Sheep and goat country. So two options. Sell the ranch to potential real estate investors or find a different business. They switched to exotics and hunting and now have a cash flow that allows them to keep those acres in the family’s 6th generation and out of the risk of being turned into a bunch of “ranchettes” with little value for any kind of wildlife. Just another item to consider though im
Sure you won’t change your mind on this one and I don’t want to argue but I’m a big proponent of keeping subdivisions at bay.

I sympathize with that viewpoint. Sheep and goat market is doing well though now, is it not?

 

[Elkeater]

I sympathize with that viewpoint. Sheep and goat market is doing well though now, is it not?

Honestly I don’t know the answer to that. However ranching of any kind isn’t the most flexible or nimble of business. So swapping back and forth unless absolutely pushed is pretty hard. I just know that from working with a number of cattle ranchers and it’s hard for them just to adjust herd size let alone species.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Honestly I don’t know the answer to that. However ranching of any kind isn’t the most flexible or nimble of business. So swapping back and forth unless absolutely pushed is pretty hard. I just know that from working with a number of cattle ranchers and it’s hard for them just to adjust herd size let alone species.

Completely understand that.

 

[ActionBob]

Stop making this about something it’s not. The RSA model is a success because it’s THEIR wildlife that have been saved. I’ve already said that there as been a slight contribution from American operations but at the end of the day the end is not justified by the means…

Yes in South Africa it is THEIR wildlife as in they own it. Including the Aoudad, fallow deer, tigers, I believe some even have elk now. And all the other Africa species that have been brought into South Africa but were never indigenous there. Very similar to Texas.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Yes in South Africa it is THEIR wildlife as in they own it. Including the Aoudad, fallow deer, tigers, I believe some even have elk now. And all the other Africa species that have been brought into South Africa but were never indigenous there. Very similar to Texas.

I didn’t mean it that way and you know it… I was referring to the revival of their native species. I don’t agree with that either. Let’s stick to the core issue.

Like I said before. It always goes this way, deflection and conflation.

 

[spike.t]

Just saw this...opposite way around..but....

Kenya receives 17 mountain bongo antelopes from the US

The mountain bongo, originally from Kenya, is a critically endangered antelope with less than 100 in the wild.

www.bbc.com

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Proves that some good comes of it. Now if Kenya would actually allow hunting again they may have a chance..

 

[Ragman]

I just have zero interest in visiting.a trophy room and being regaled about shooting a Kudu in the Hill Country. And to @spike.t ’s point, not much more interest in hearing about a lechwe killed on a game farm in SA. It is much the same thing. The biggest part of the adventure for me is hunting an animal in its indigenous environment.

First of all please don’t take this as negative criticism, it is purely curiosity on my part and you certainly don’t owe me or anyone else an explanation. But on one hand you don’t like lechwe hunting in South Africa or kudu “hunting” in Texas. Then on the other hand you enthusiastically speak of Nilgai and aoudad hunting in the same state as well as red stag hunting in Argentina. I’ve seen a photo of mounted nilgai and aoudad in your home alongside a beautiful sable. These are all animals and places I’d love to hunt too. Again, no negativity on my part. Just wondering.

 

[Red Leg]

First of all please don’t take this as negative criticism, it is purely curiosity on my part and you certainly don’t owe me or anyone else an explanation. But on one hand you don’t like lechwe hunting in South Africa or kudu “hunting” in Texas. Then on the other hand you enthusiastically speak of Nilgai and aoudad hunting in the same state as well as red stag hunting in Argentina. I’ve seen a photo of mounted nilgai and aoudad in your home alongside a beautiful sable. These are all animals and places I’d love to hunt too. Again, no negativity on my part. Just wondering.

It is actually pretty simple. Let's set this aside first. To me, an animal behind a fence, whether in Africa or Texas, is not the same as a free range animal. That is not meant as a blanket condemnation of game ranch hunting - I have done it and written about it. But, I think my assertion is largely correct.

The US, like parts of New Zealand and Australia, is host to a number of nonindigenous species that have flourished here in some cases for more than a century, and represent wonderful free range hunting opportunities. These are truly wild animals existing naturally in a free range environment. The aoudad, scimitar horned ibex, and nilgai have proven particularly successful introductions in Texas. For all practical purposes, those animals, are now native.

In that native environment, they are exceptional game animals.

Under most Hill Country game ranch conditions, nilgai and aoudad especially, are something to shoot as they stand around a feeder. That is also true of of our 230" Frankendeer that are priced by the inch.

So let's turn to Africa. A lechwe behind a fence in the Eastern Cape is no more native than an elk behind a fence in the Hill Country. Neither hold the least interest to me. Should someone else wish to shoot either under those conditions, that is absolutely fine. Just don't expect me to be mesmerized by the tale of the hunt.

But a Lechwe, from the Caprivi or the Kafue is a remarkable quarry with a story to tell about its environment. Were there a created and established free range population along the Limpopo, I think one could say the same about it as one would an Aoudad in near Marathon, TX. I am unaware of such a population.

Finally, these are purely my personal observations and conclusions. I in no way believe they are necessarily superior to someone who feels very differently about a Lechwe or Hill Country elk. But, they are right for me.

 

[LucasK]

What native deer population in Argentina has been affected?

Mostly Huemul and pampas deer.

 

[Ragman]

It is actually pretty simple. Let's set this aside first. To me, an animal behind a fence, whether in Africa or Texas, is not the same as a free range animal. That is not meant as a blanket condemnation of game ranch hunting - I have done it and written about it. But, I think my assertion is largely correct.

The US, like parts of New Zealand and Australia, is host to a number of nonindigenous species that have flourished here in some cases for more than a century, and represent wonderful free range hunting opportunities. These are truly wild animals existing naturally in a free range environment. The aoudad, scimitar horned ibex, and nilgai have proven particularly successful introductions in Texas. For all practical purposes, those animals, are now native.

In that native environment, they are exceptional game animals.

Under most Hill Country game ranch conditions, nilgai and aoudad especially, are something to shoot as they stand around a feeder. That is also true of of our 230" Frankendeer that are priced by the inch.

So let's turn to Africa. A lechwe behind a fence in the Eastern Cape is no more native than an elk behind a fence in the Hill Country. Neither hold the least interest to me. Should someone else wish to shoot either under those conditions, that is absolutely fine. Just don't expect me to be mesmerized by the tale of the hunt.

But a Lechwe, from the Caprivi or the Kafue is a remarkable quarry with a story to tell about its environment. Were there a created and established free range population along the Limpopo, I think one could say the same about it as one would an Aoudad in near Marathon, TX. I am unaware of such a population.

Finally, these are purely my personal observations and conclusions. I in no way believe they are necessarily superior to someone who feels very differently about a Lechwe or Hill Country elk. But, they are right for me.

Great explanation. Thank you.