Longer shots 9.3x62

[Bert Reynolds]

I have recently returned from an unsuccessful Sambar hunt with my 9.3x62. The country I hunted was all cross gulley with very few chances to get closer than 300 metres. I really like my rifle and would like to persist with it as It’s a left handed sako 85 Bavarian and choice for lefties is limited at best.

Has anyone had experience with longer range shooting? I was thinking of trying 250 grain Accubonds and having an asv turret fitted from zeiss.

 

[Shootist43]

Bert, have you ever taken a look at "Nikon's Spot On Ballistics Calculator?" Just for giggles I went to that site and for reference plugged in a Federal load using a Woodleigh 286 Gr bullet. There is a 14" drop from 200 to 300 yards (you can change the settings to meters) if you used a Nikon BDC scope set on 3 power the first circle below center is 317 yards. I use a 35 Whelen which is ballistically similar to your 9.3 x 62 so your question piqued my interest. What settings are available to you if you were to have an ASV turret fitted? Try contacting "Timbo" he is an Aussie that shoots a 9.3 x 62 he may have some insight for you. Hopefully others can shed more light on this.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

I have no experience but on paper, Cutting Edge bullets appear to offer the flattest trajectories I've seen for 9.3X62mm cartridges (plus many others).
Their 9.3X62mm load data shows approx. 3000 fps MV with their 192 grain 9.3mm projectile and approx. 2750 fps MV with their 230 grain 9.3mm projectile. They specify a minimum impact speed of 1600 fps for both of these projectiles, so there's a pretty wide useful velocity window.

Note: there are some special notes on their web site on loading procedures for their bullets.

http://www.gsgroup.co.za/hvloadslarge.html

 

[Bert Reynolds]

Bert, have you ever taken a look at "Nikon's Spot On Ballistics Calculator?" Just for giggles I went to that site and for reference plugged in a Federal load using a Woodleigh 286 Gr bullet. There is a 14" drop from 200 to 300 yards (you can change the settings to meters) if you used a Nikon BDC scope set on 3 power the first circle below center is 317 yards. I use a 35 Whelen which is ballistically similar to your 9.3 x 62 so your question piqued my interest. What settings are available to you if you were to have an ASV turret fitted? Try contacting "Timbo" he is an Aussie that shoots a 9.3 x 62 he may have some insight for you. Hopefully others can shed more light on this.

I would get the asv and have a custom ring made by Kenton industries for my handload. I have the ballistic drop app on my phone. It shows me being about 9 inches low at 300 with a 200 yard zero using 250 grain Noslers. And it’s showing I’ll still be above 1800fps out to 550 yards.

So in theory it should work. But theory and practice don’t always match.

 

[Bert Reynolds]

I have no experience but on paper, Cutting Edge bullets appear to offer the flattest trajectories I've seen for 9.3X62mm cartridges (plus many others).
Their 9.3X62mm load data shows approx. 3000 fps MV with their 192 grain 9.3mm projectile and approx. 2750 fps MV with their 230 grain 9.3mm projectile. They specify a minimum impact speed of 1600 fps for both of these projectiles, so there's a pretty wide useful velocity window.

Note: there are some special notes on their web site on loading procedures for their bullets.

http://www.gsgroup.co.za/hvloadslarge.html

Thank you. These are not a projectile I’m familiar with but they sound promising. I’m in Australia so I’ll have to see if they are available.

 

[stug]

Somewhere on YouTube there is a video of a kudu being shot at 3-400 yds with a 9.3x62.
I think you are on the right track with the 250 accubond for that kind of shot. Just check how much velocity is left at 300 to make sure the projectile will expand. Otherwise the 270gr Speer is one of the softer 9.3 projectiles.
With a good dial up scope and a ballistic program hits at 300 should not be a problem

 

[Mr. Zorg]

It would be great (on paper at least) if Nosler offered one of their Accubond Long Range projectiles in 9.3mm for your situation. I purchased some 6.5mm 142 grain ABLR's for my .264 Win Mag and 7mm 175 grain ABLR's for my 7X57mm but haven't had any load development work done yet.

 

[PaulT]

Thank you. These are not a projectile I’m familiar with but they sound promising. I’m in Australia so I’ll have to see if they are available.

C.E.B's are available from Daryl Lenkic at Meplat Firearms in S.A.
If you decide to go this route I recommend the 200gn Raptor.
Depending on the length of your magazine and the rifle's throat set-up you can get 2900fps or maybe more with that proj in the 62mm.
Daryl will help you with loads if you ask him and he will also school you in loading these projectiles.

 

[Red Devil]

I have recently returned from an unsuccessful Sambar hunt with my 9.3x62. The country I hunted was all cross gulley with very few chances to get closer than 300 metres. I really like my rifle and would like to persist with it as It’s a left handed sako 85 Bavarian and choice for lefties is limited at best.

Has anyone had experience with longer range shooting? I was thinking of trying 250 grain Accubonds and having an asv turret fitted from zeiss.

First, what are you hunting?

For large game, you only have a ballistics problem, and accurate range information will solve that.

Given the factory 285 gr. Oryx at 2360 fps. and a scoped 6" MPBR zero of 230 yds.:

Yds - Drop - Nrg
300 - 13" - 1860 lb-ft.
325 - 18"
350 - 24" - 1660 lb-ft.
375 - 30"
400 - 38" - 1480 lb-ft.

If you know the range?
Top-of-back hold at 300 yds.
Daylight over top-of-back hold at 350 yds.

The other problem is expansion - which you will lose at ~ 250 yds.




Red

 

[Mr. Zorg]

First, what are you hunting?

For large game, you only have a ballistics problem, and accurate range information will solve that.

Given the factory 285 gr. Oryx at 2360 fps. and a scoped 6" MPBR zero of 230 yds.:

Yds - Drop - Nrg
300 - 13" - 1860 lb-ft.
325 - 18"
350 - 24" - 1660 lb-ft.
375 - 30"
400 - 38" - 1480 lb-ft.

If you know the range?
Top-of-back hold at 300 yds.
Daylight over top-of-back hold at 350 yds.

The other problem is expansion - which you will lose at ~ 250 yds.




Red

Norma's literature shows a minimum expansion velocity of 1500 fps for their Oryx projectiles. Using the Norma Android app, this isn't reached until 400 yards range for their 286 grain 9.3X62mm factory ammo. What is your figure for minimum expansion velocity, and basis? Like the OP I'm always interested if there's a significant discrepancy between field experience vs "on paper".

FWIW, the OP mentioned his intended game is Sambar in the first sentence of the post you quoted.

 

[Red Devil]

Norma's literature shows a minimum expansion velocity of 1500 fps for their Oryx projectiles. Using the Norma Android app, this isn't reached until 400 yards range for their 286 grain 9.3X62mm factory ammo. What is your figure for minimum expansion velocity, and basis? Like the OP I'm always interested if there's a significant discrepancy between field experience vs "on paper".

FWIW, the OP mentioned his intended game is Sambar in the first sentence of the post you quoted.

Was using 1800 fps.

1500 fps - is pretty low for a bonded bullet, but would get you out to 400 yds., and, ~ 15oo lb-ft of energy would also be an acceptable minimum for that size animal, given good presentation and shot placement.




Red

 

[Mr. Zorg]

Was using 1800 fps.

1500 fps - is pretty low for a bonded bullet, but would get you out to 400 yds., and, ~ 15oo lb-ft of energy would also be an acceptable minimum for that size animal, given good presentation and shot placement.




Red

OK, I've never seen Norma documentatiin specifying anything other than 1500 fps minimum expansion velocity. You have field experience that Norma's documentation value is erroneous that you're willing to share?

Similarly Nosler Accubond Long Range documentation specifies 1300 fps minimum expansion velocity, Federal Edge TLR documentation specifies 1350 fps minimum expansion velocity, Hornady ELD-X specifies 1600 fps minimum expansion velocity, GS bullets documentation mentioned in my first post this thread shows 1600 fps minimum expansion velocity. I've corresponded with Lapua, Lapua contends their Mega bullets have 1500 fps minimum expansion velocity.

A minimum expansion velocity is generally applied to typical cup & core bullet design IME as well as Nosler's Accubond, Partition, Ballistic Tip, and E-tip offerings. It's also a rule of thumb if not otherwise specified by a bullet manufacturer IME.

Again, like the OP, I am interested where actual field experience doesn't match what's "on paper". I've always been a strong empiricist but see no reason to ignore manufacturer data unless there is empirical experience demonstrating manufacturer data is in error. Things like the thread here titled "Bullet Performance Database".

 

[sgt_zim]

250 gr NAB out of a 9.3x62 is a near twin of the same bullet fired out of a .338 WM. It's a bit slower, and the BC is a bit lower, than the .338 bullet, but not so much as a sambar will be able to tell the difference out to maybe 350-400M. If you're going further than that at or near sea level, you've got the wrong cartridge. And I say that as a total 9.3x62 fan boi.

in the light bullets, which in my mind is everything below 250 grains, once you get to ~300M, BC is generally so low that the heavier, higher BC bullets have more V than the lighter bullets.

Woodleigh makes a PP SN in 250 gr. The BC isn't great (.381), but it would be a better choice than a 232 gr Oryx, or anything lighter.

IMO, stick with the 250/285/286 gr offerings out there.

 

[Red Devil]

OK, I've never seen Norma documentatiin specifying anything other than 1500 fps minimum expansion velocity. You have field experience that Norma's documentation value is erroneous that you're willing to share?

Similarly Nosler Accubond Long Range documentation specifies 1300 fps minimum expansion velocity, Federal Edge TLR documentation specifies 1350 fps minimum expansion velocity, Hornady ELD-X specifies 1600 fps minimum expansion velocity, GS bullets documentation mentioned in my first post this thread shows 1600 fps minimum expansion velocity. I've corresponded with Lapua, Lapua contends their Mega bullets have 1500 fps minimum expansion velocity.

A minimum expansion velocity is generally applied to typical cup & core bullet design IME as well as Nosler's Accubond, Partition, Ballistic Tip, and E-tip offerings. It's also a rule of thumb if not otherwise specified by a bullet manufacturer IME.

Again, like the OP, I am interested where actual field experience doesn't match what's "on paper". I've always been a strong empiricist but see no reason to ignore manufacturer data unless there is empirical experience demonstrating manufacturer data is in error. Things like the thread here titled "Bullet Performance Database".

They may initiate expansion at 1500 fps., under optimal conditions, but that is an impact velocity that would need to be thoroughly tested before relied upon in the field.

This is their (Norma) Oryx 1640 fps (~ 340 yds) impact velocity test:

Minimum acceptable - under unknown conditions.




Red

 

[Mr. Zorg]

So I guess you have zero field data with Norma Oryx projectiles.

Who defines "minimal acceptable expansion"? What is the objective definition, as opposed to subjective? Which standardization agency publishes that objective standard (ISO, ASTEM, CIP, SAAMI)?

Note you posted only lab tests, while the OP & have been posting requests for field experience.

There are photographs in Norma's catalog at several different impact velocities, similar to what Nosler provides on their web site for their various bullet offerings.

Which lab did you use to obtain your choice of 1800 fps minimum expansion velocity for Norma Oryx projectiles?

 

[Mr. Zorg]

Here's the web link for the whole picture on what was cut & pasted.

https://www.norma-ammunition.com/us/Ammunition-Academy/Expansion/Impact-of-Speed/

I see exactly zero data published for expansion ratios, nor appearance of the word "acceptable" nor the word "minimum" anywhere on that page of that site, FWIW.

It's notable that 1640 fps converts to a nice round figure of 500 m/s in the metric system, for data posted by a European manufacturer. Similarly, 2297 fps = 700 m/s, and 2953 fps = 900 m/s.

 

[Red Devil]

Here's the web link for the whole picture on what was cut & pasted.

https://www.norma-ammunition.com/us/Ammunition-Academy/Expansion/Impact-of-Speed/

I see exactly zero data published for expansion ratios, nor appearance of the word "acceptable" nor the word "minimum" anywhere on that page of that site, FWIW.

It's notable that 1640 fps converts to a nice round figure of 500 m/s in the metric system, for data posted by a European manufacturer. Similarly, 2297 fps = 700 m/s, and 2953 fps = 900 m/s.

Enjoy your rhetoric, and potential tracking job, RE: 1500 fps impact velocity on large game in the field.

Will stand by 1800 fps until proven otherwise, and have yet to see any data to indicate acceptable field performance at much less than that.




Red

 

[Mr. Zorg]

Enjoy your rhetoric, and potential tracking job, RE: 1500 fps impact velocity on large game in the field.

Will stand by 1800 fps until proven otherwise, and have yet to see any data to indicate acceptable field performance at much less than that.




Red

Well actually, we've seen you vacillate between 1800 fps and 1640 fps, doing a cut & paste from Norma USA's web site and inventing complete fables about Norma's purpose in posting info on their web site (Norma points out it used 1640 fps = 500 m/s as a typical velocity of a .308 180 grain projectile at 350 yards,which if you check the ballistics of competitor Geco .308 Win 180 grain RNSP ammo, cross-checks nicely). Since Norma USA is a sponsor here, they may well object to your slanderously ficticious use of materials from their web site. It certainly speaks volumes regarding your personal charachter.

If you *honestly* read my posts, I never said anything about taking a shot that would result in 1500 fps impact velocity, I merely refuted the 1800 fps minimum impact velocity for Norma Oryx projectiles you pulled from between your left & right hip pockets, then also when you reached elbow deep into that same spot to create a complete fairy tale regarding information posted on Norma USA's web site. You would be better served if you'd pulled your head out of there instead while you were elbow deep, but apparently your head is more than shoulder deep in there for you demonstrated by your continuing posts.

I've never had to track any game I ever shot. As a meat hunter and as a NRA certified sharpshooter, I specialize in skull and neck CNS shots on game I've hunted - real field experience and skill vs your keyboard wannabe fiction.

 

[Fastrig]

I have recently returned from an unsuccessful Sambar hunt with my 9.3x62. The country I hunted was all cross gulley with very few chances to get closer than 300 metres. I really like my rifle and would like to persist with it as It’s a left handed sako 85 Bavarian and choice for lefties is limited at best.

Has anyone had experience with longer range shooting? I was thinking of trying 250 grain Accubonds and having an asv turret fitted from zeiss.

I'm shooting a 9.3x62 as well, Mauser M12...love the cartridge and rifle. Been playing with longer shots with various ammo. Have had pretty good luck with 250 grain ammo out to around 275-300 yards. It's dropping pretty hard at that distance but you can still control the shots. Honestly, anything longer than 300 yards and I'd be looking for a different option to the 9.3x62. I'm a pretty decent shooter but don't think even a true marksman would really go much further out than 300 when going after game. My comfort zone with the 9.3x62 is truly 250 and under, but would stretch it out a bit if the conditions were right. I haven't used the 232 grain options from Norma yet, but have read they produce a bit more velocity so that might get you out to 300 a little flatter. They do get good reviews when being used on smaller game. Just my two-cents.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

Fastrig, the OP has a special consideration as a lefty in his OP, which is why he doesn't want to change rifles. My guess is it's more difficult to own multiple rifles in Oz than the USA, but I'm no expert on their gun laws. My wife & I had an opportunity to relocate to the Brisbane area back in 1996, from both career and hobby perspectives it worked out best that we didn't pursue that course.