Low recoil red deer and wild boar cartridge

[Alistair]

My grandson has taken hogs and deer with his 7mm-08; Also some exotics.

My son shoots hogs with his .223 AR15. So do several ranchers that I have hunted with.
I shoot hogs with whatever is handy. .357 revolver and rifle on up to big bore rifles.

I should possibly note that euro boar are not the same as us hogs, which are effectively just feral, once domesticated pigs.

I'd also point out that a round that can kill a beast is not the same as one which can put a beast down decisively when shot placement is not as clinical (driven boar).

I have no doubt a .223 would kill a euro boar, but would it do so consistently if chest shooting a moving target, with funny angles and with a beast high on adrenaline? Maybe not.

Personally, I've never seen anything smaller than a 270win on a driven shoot, although 6.5 would maybe work as well.

Think of a euro hog as an 'elk level' quarry species, but more dangerous and you're about right. Would you shoot a running elk at 100yds with a 30-30 or a .223 or even a 6.5? I wouldn't, especially as a wounding could end up seriously injuring someone if the boar has a go at them.

The common options seem to be in that 7-9.3mm range, which I think is borne of practicality as much as pure social pressure.

 

[thriller]

Good morning gentlemen,
What a wonderful world we live in!
I happened to be owner of extremely poor eyesight, but modern medicine can do miracles even for the most deformed eyes. I am about to be getting Implantable Collamer Lens (ICL) - (google it, it is very fascinating), so I should see well again.
But there is a catch. According to the doctor, one should be extremely careful - apparently avoiding any impact or big concussions - damn, I can't even rub my eyes! So I guess shooting dozens of 9.3s from my 7 pounds O/U is something to be avoided This is not easy for me, since I am firm believer of Use enough gun approach.

I would like to know Your suggestions for soft recoiling and possibly very heavy rifle that can cleanly kill Red deer and Wild boar - having minimum of 1.500 joules (or 1.100 footpounds) of energy in 100 meters (legal min. in my country). Ideally something that can reach up to 300 yards - for close ranges and larger animals I intend to get a compound bow.

Well I am not sure where you are but if you can get a suppressor on something like a 308 the gun feels more like a 22 when you shoot it than a 308 and should be sufficient for the game mentioned.

 

[crs]

Alistair,
In Texas, most feral hog shooting is pest control and sport. Often they are just shot in a trap and dumped for the buzzards and other carrion eaters.

Sometimes we run them with dogs. This is for sport or to collect trophies. I like the hunt with dogs, but never keep the trophies.
I sometimes shoot eating size pigs for meat. This one was 600 pounds and not the best choice for dinner.

 

[Alistair]

Alistair,
In Texas, most feral hog shooting is pest control and sport. Often they are just shot in a trap and dumped for the buzzards and other carrion eaters.

Sometimes we run them with dogs. This is for sport or to collect trophies. I like the hunt with dogs, but never keep the trophies.
I sometimes shoot eating size pigs for meat. This one was 600 pounds and not the best choice for dinner.
View attachment 461960

Oh, don't take my post the wrong way, I'm not judging or criticizing you guys at all. I just think it's worth noting that not only is the hunting culture for euro driven boar different, the use case, set up and therefore calibre choice is different as well.

Oh, and nice pig!

 

[Major Bonkers]

Buy a Mannlicher-Schöenauer model 1903 stutzen in 6.5x54. Very light recoil, and probably the finest sporting rifle ever built.

 

[Red Leg]

Oh, don't take my post the wrong way, I'm not judging or criticizing you guys at all. I just think it's worth noting that not only is the hunting culture for euro driven boar different, the use case, set up and therefore calibre choice is different as well.

Oh, and nice pig!

I shoot feral hogs on my place with a thermal sighted 5.56. I have also shot driven boar in Europe. The one has almost nothing to do with the other. I wouldn't dream of attempting to use a .223 class caliber on a driven hunt even were it legal, which it is not in most countries. And yes, a feral hog can get big, but other than both being pigs, our feral animals have little in common with the European brand.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Alistair,
In Texas, most feral hog shooting is pest control and sport. Often they are just shot in a trap and dumped for the buzzards and other carrion eaters.

Sometimes we run them with dogs. This is for sport or to collect trophies. I like the hunt with dogs, but never keep the trophies.
I sometimes shoot eating size pigs for meat. This one was 600 pounds and not the best choice for dinner.
View attachment 461960

I’m sorry but that’s no feral pig. Looks like a full blood Duroc sow or gilt that someone bought off of a kid that showed it in 4H/FFA and released it with the intent to sell it as a wild hog hunt.

Also (it’s already been mentioned), our (true) feral pigs have very little in common with Eurasian wild boar.

 

[WAB]

I agree with the recommendations on a .275 or 7x57. The challenge may be that these typically come in trim little rifles. You specifically mentioned that you want a heavy rifle, assumably for reduced recoil.

Given that, I would probably lean toward a heavy barreled .308 bolt gun and fit it with a suppressor. That should meet your energy, weight, and recoil requirements.

 

[crs]

WT said "’m sorry but that’s no feral pig. Looks like a full blood Duroc sow or gilt that someone bought off of a kid that showed it in 4H/FFA and released it with the intent to sell it as a wild hog hunt."

WT,
You are only part right- It was a Duroc sow.
You were wrong about it not being feral. It had been feral for 5+ years and had birthed many feral piglets. Also none of the hogs on that property were bought to be stocked for hunting.
Look up the definition of feral and you must agree.
Conclusions must be easy to jump to, as it happens so often.

 

[Donnstar]

While it makes for fun conversation, I would never ask for public opinion on what caliber is best for my particular..... situation. Grow a set or don't hunt.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Buy a Mannlicher-Schöenauer model 1903 stutzen in 6.5x54. Very light recoil, and probably the finest sporting rifle ever built.

I wouldn't mind getting after some of the U.S. feral hogs with my M1910 (9.5X57 - .375 Nitro Express Rimless) Take Down Model.
It may not be applicable to the OP's situation but its recoil has never bothered me when held tight to the shoulder.

It should make short work of ol' Porky as in Grand Dad's hands it was good at converting buffalo to a dandy rack for the pith helmet:

 

[Challer]

I know an awful lot of trap and skeets who keep on after IOL/ICL surgery. Never get medical advice off the internet but may be worth more research

 

[Sika98k]

Congratulations on getting your eye sight back. Would a 275 Rigby work? It's a mild recoiling cartridge, and I believe should be enough for Red deer and wild boars.

This man took the words right out of my mouth!

 

[Philip Glass]

Good morning gentlemen,
What a wonderful world we live in!
I happened to be owner of extremely poor eyesight, but modern medicine can do miracles even for the most deformed eyes. I am about to be getting Implantable Collamer Lens (ICL) - (google it, it is very fascinating), so I should see well again.
But there is a catch. According to the doctor, one should be extremely careful - apparently avoiding any impact or big concussions - damn, I can't even rub my eyes! So I guess shooting dozens of 9.3s from my 7 pounds O/U is something to be avoided This is not easy for me, since I am firm believer of Use enough gun approach.

I would like to know Your suggestions for soft recoiling and possibly very heavy rifle that can cleanly kill Red deer and Wild boar - having minimum of 1.500 joules (or 1.100 footpounds) of energy in 100 meters (legal min. in my country). Ideally something that can reach up to 300 yards - for close ranges and larger animals I intend to get a compound bow.

How about a .308 with a suppressor?

 

[R eight]

I had the lenses in my eyes replaced about 7 years ago.
Took it very easy the first 2 weeks. I regularly shoot 200 plus 12 guage in a day and shoot 416 Rigby, 375 H&H and 9.3 x62 rifles regularly.
No issues.

might pay to make further enquires with your surgeon.

 

[Pavel U]

Thank You all for your recommendations
gives me very nice overview of what would You considered appropriate for these two critters. A friend of mine hunts them with 243 (spot and stalk), but I would prefer something "a bit more enough" - so 6.5s in very heavy rifle seems viable option. And driven hunts? ... I have to probable give them a pass - I would feel too much undergunned as @Alistair mentioned - and that is why I use 9.3x74R for those kind of hunts. Still being a pleasant shooter (@rookhawk ) it simply "shakes" with head a bit. And because I am in uncharted territory here, I wanna be on the safer side as much as possible - so lower the recoil the better. To be blind is something I´d rather stay away from.
@shootist~ Would appreciate if You share the mentioned spreadsheet - would help me choose the right one.
@R eight @Challer this is very interesting I already had many tests and one "preparation" surgery (CCL/CXL) and been visiting the clinic for a year. I am gonna definitely enquire my surgeon more - cause he knows my eyes the best. Must say that I got a bit lost in all the medical terms - but my understanding was: yet small but fast concussions via stock and cheek/bone to the eye might make the lense to move very slightly. And that may cause troubles because of pressure levels in my eyes. - so I guess this is more me-specific issue than that of ICL. I do have really messed-up eyes. Still gonna open this topic again. Thank You guys.

 

[rdog]

Good luck with your eyes, my suggestion a 6.5x55, 7x57, or a 7mm/08 with 130 to 140 grain premium bullets, all very capable cartridges. the 6.5 grendel is another option, very light recoil but may be too low on power, bullet placement would have to just right, mine does a good job on Australian pigs out to 200 meters.

 

[shootist~]

Thank You all for your recommendations
gives me very nice overview of what would You considered appropriate for these two critters. A friend of mine hunts them with 243 (spot and stalk), but I would prefer something "a bit more enough" - so 6.5s in very heavy rifle seems viable option. And driven hunts? ... I have to probable give them a pass - I would feel too much undergunned as @Alistair mentioned - and that is why I use 9.3x74R for those kind of hunts. Still being a pleasant shooter (@rookhawk ) it simply "shakes" with head a bit. And because I am in uncharted territory here, I wanna be on the safer side as much as possible - so lower the recoil the better. To be blind is something I´d rather stay away from.
@shootist~ Would appreciate if You share the mentioned spreadsheet - would help me choose the right one.
@R eight @Challer this is very interesting I already had many tests and one "preparation" surgery (CCL/CXL) and been visiting the clinic for a year. I am gonna definitely enquire my surgeon more - cause he knows my eyes the best. Must say that I got a bit lost in all the medical terms - but my understanding was: yet small but fast concussions via stock and cheek/bone to the eye might make the lense to move very slightly. And that may cause troubles because of pressure levels in my eyes. - so I guess this is more me-specific issue than that of ICL. I do have really messed-up eyes. Still gonna open this topic again. Thank You guys.

@Pavel U
I sent you a PM with my email address. I first tried to attach my Excel spreadsheet showing my detailed Chuck Hawks "K" (Killing) Factor spreadsheet - but apparently AH will not allow such attachments.

Here is a link to the original Chuck Hawks article:
https://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_killing_power_list.htm

Note that my 243 is a Sako 18.5" carbine, so my chronographed velocity (and resulting K factor) will be less than a more traditional hunting rifle. (K = 16 Vs about 18 per Mr. Hawks).

For a couple of calibers, (280AI and 30-06), my spreadsheet shows Foot Pounds and K factors out to 325 Yards (Column O) for various loads. Allowing for a muzzle brake or suppressor, the 280 Remington or 280 AI would appear to be a good choice for low recoil without sacrificing too much at your desired 300 Meters.

To calculate recoil, the JBM calculator works very well, of course it does not allow for the use of a brake or suppressor. From my experience, muzzle brakes work best with lighter faster bullets. With a good (but very loud) 3 port brake reducing felt recoil by as much as 40% or so.

A single port brake such as the Ruger (standard on the RPR) might still get you a 30% reduction. My guess since I have that brake on a 308 practice (hunting weight) rifle.

You can play with the weight of the rifle in JBM to see what that does to the free recoil. Take your 9.3x62 and then compare it to a 10 Pound 6.5, 7mm, or 308. (My 6.5 CM with 26" Remage Light Varmint barrel weights 13 pounds, btw. My 2.5x10-42 NF scoped Tikka T3X is about 8.5.)

Shoot me an email or PM if you want me to check any of your figures. I'm a recoil sissy currently recovering (very nicely) from open heart surgery, so I feel your pain.

JBM - Calculations - Recoil

www.jbmballistics.com

 

[rookhawk]

Another option for Pavel is to stay the course with his 9.3x74r.

Here's how that would work.

A 9lb gun shooting the 286gr load produces about 36lbs of felt recoil. Going to a 250gr bullet will reduce that recoil down to 29lbs of recoil. (a good start)

Next, he adds a 1 pound mercury recoil reducer to his stock. That should reduce recoil by about 13%.

Next, you go to a hand load using a faster burning powder that requires less grains of powder to achieve the regulation velocity of typically 2400fps. This can be accomplished with say Viht N135 at 53.5gr.

Next, we get a softer recoil pad on his gun to further reduce the perceived recoil. Might as well, they need to pull the pad to install the recoil reducer.

What does this solution accomplish, by the numbers?

It takes his 9.3x74r rifle producing 36lbs of felt recoil and brings it down to 23.87lbs of felt recoil.

By comparison, the suggestion of a 7x64 brenneke with a 140gr load out of a 9lb gun is going to be about 17lbs of recoil. A 7x57 out of a 9lb gun with a 175gr is going to be about 15lbs of felt recoil.

There are many ways to skin the cat!

 

[Pavel U]

@rookhawk this very interesting math I am not currently reloading, but this is pretty much always only matter of time right?
I especially like Your soft pad idea - maybe separation of cheekbone and hard stock can do trick .... I found this on amazon: In the worst case: may put there more than one and adjust the stock.

Must be careful but seems like a very nice option. Gonna give it a try when the surgery is finished.
Playing with rifle weight was on my mind, but there are some practical limits.

@shootist~ it seems to me, that Chuck Hawks formula gives too much edge to larger calibers - comparing 30-06 and 8x57IS (which is very popular here in central Europe): given the same weight of bullet and energy - 8x57 seems better option - but in my mind the "slimmer" 30-06 would have a better penetration
Anyway it is very interesting list - of the "sub .30" calibers the 6.5s seem to be the right choice.
@Major Bonkers I found some Mannlicher-Schöenauers in 6.5x54 here in Czechia. But the prices of the nice pieces are not inexpensive ... might be cheaper to go with the Blaser as @Art Lambart II suggested