Mauser 98 vs Blaser R8

[Philip Glass]

Mauser 98 for me. I have been tempted by the Blasers from time to time. They certainly have a list of advantages, and are highly regarded by many. You will never convince me the Blaser is as reliable as a time tested bolt action though. There is a term, "Blaser click" that was coined because of failures to fire with Blasers. I know, I know, it is user error, or improperly loaded ammo, or dust, or..... My PH recounted a story of an elephant hunter he guided that had three clicks in a row with his R8. Elephant wasn't taken. Luckily it went the other way. The dust in Namibia in October is extremely fine and airborne, it coats everything and gets into small spaces. In these conditions I would definitely feel more confident in a Mauser which has been proven in very adverse conditions for well over 100 years. I am not one who gets hung up on push feed vs CRF, but I do think its amusing how staunch CRF guys make an exception to the Blasers. Why ? Because they cost a lot of money ?

I guess we all have our own experiences. I've had CRF fail me at a bad time. My R8 took a beating on the recent 15 day hunt in AK and never had a problem. Sure trying to close the bolt quietly can in some cases result in the click. I've only seen it one time but I will concede that it is possible. It's also possible to have a devil of a time working a traditional bolt when an animal is bearing down on you!

 

[Philip Glass]

My apologies I did not make clear, in the OPs original post he asked which would be more durable. I was merely trying to point out that in its 127 year history the 98 has proven to be extremely durable whereas since the R8 has only been on the market a short time there is not enough history to ascertain its durability. Yes I am a fudd my personal choice was not asked for so I did not give it only trying to provide information. I did state your money your choice. To each there own go forth and enjoy.

The straight pull was invented in 1886.

An Official Journal Of The NRA | The Straight-Pull Rifle: From Past To Present

Savage just released its new Impulse straight-pull, bolt-action rifle, but this design concept stretches back more than a century. Here, we explore the development and history of the straight-pull rifle.

www.americanrifleman.org

 

[Rimbaud]

This conversation is the rifle equivalent of Ford v Chevy or Mercedes v BMW . . . Just buy the Mauser and the Blaser. Sometimes you want old school. Sometimes you want innovation.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Bolt rifle failure at crunch time. It’s been shown here before.

This guy has faced his share of bluff charges. And usually stands his ground at mere feet. When he knows it’s a bluff.

He also knows when it’s not a bluff.

Not a good time for a failure to eject or feed

 

[Altitude sickness]

I’m sure Buzz would say. He was lucky that cow turned because he was basically unarmed.

 

[Russ16]

Bolt rifle failure at crunch time. It’s been shown here before.

This guy has faced his share of bluff charges. And usually stands his ground at mere feet. When he knows it’s a bluff.

He also knows when it’s not a bluff.

Not a good time for a failure to eject or feed

I think he switched to a double after that.

 

[Green Chile]

I think he switched to a double after that.

He did switch to a double after that. Buzz and Myles were using Ruger express 416 Rigbys for many seasons up to that point...Alan was using a bolt 458. They have doubles now. They do a lot of tuskless hunts and they are a lot more dangerous, having more legit charges on the hunting party.

 

[roklok]

Scary video !! Looks like a failure to extract, he was pounding rearward on the bolt handle and the bolt was still forward. Maybe an R8 would handle an overpressure or otherwise stuck case better than a traditional turnbolt, but I have my doubts. Familiarity is also part of the equation as far as my decision to stick with traditional bolt actions. Under stress, our brain wants to do what it is accustomed to. I have been shooting bolt actions for over 40 years, not sure in a stressful situation I would not try to lift bolt handle on an R8 instead of pulling straight back. To illustrate this point; In 2006 I was a recruit at the Alaska State Trooper academy in Sitka Alaska. Up to that point my handgun shooting was with revolvers, my semi-auto handgun was a Ruger standard .22 LR with the European style heel magazine release. I put thousands of rounds through that little Ruger. Despite weeks of academy training on the new to me Glock model 22, when it came time to do malfunction clearances under a timer and stress for official qualification purposes, I would revert to my Ruger .22 and try to dump the magazine by manipulating the non-existent heel mag release. This was eye-opening for me. I haven't shot the Ruger since.

 

[roklok]

I guess we all have our own experiences. I've had CRF fail me at a bad time. My R8 took a beating on the recent 15 day hunt in AK and never had a problem. Sure trying to close the bolt quietly can in some cases result in the click. I've only seen it one time but I will concede that it is possible. It's also possible to have a devil of a time working a traditional bolt when an animal is bearing down on you!

That may have resulted in the three clicks on the elephant. If the bolt was closed quietly that could have led to the first click, and the client probably would not have wanted to rack the R8 forcefully within yards of the elephant, causing a repeat of the issue.

 

[Red Leg]

I love it how people who have never picked up an R8, much less shot it or used it in the field have determined its relative value with respect to a Mauser. Moreover, they typically lead the charge in criticizing the design. I know it is true in my case, and suspect it is true with virtually all the others here who use the R8, but we actually own and use other rifles with other actions - to include the Mauser. The bolt lift - muscle memory thing is a red herring. It is like saying I can't use double triggers because I have always used single triggers. I use both regularly, and would have to look down to tell you how the SxS was equipped. The R8 really is a remarkably better mouse trap for its intended purpose.

 

[1dirthawker]

This conversation is the rifle equivalent of Ford v Chevy or Mercedes v BMW . . . Just buy the Mauser and the Blaser. Sometimes you want old school. Sometimes you want innovation.

GOOD ADVICE!

just buy em both. i guarantee you will like one better than the other at some point. then move more fully in that direction.

that's why there are blondes, brunettes and red heads. something for everyone and nobody is wrong.

 

[One Day...]

Sell the Les Baer and buy a Glock 40 10mm. LOL

Already have a G15, G17, G20, G21, G30, G34, and G42 (my wife's)

I love the G20, this is my truck gun. I figure that if I cannot get it done with a 10 mm with three 15 rounds mags, I likely need something belt fed...

I have the standard length (4.6") 10 mm barrel; a 6" 10 mm Lone Wolf stainless barrel; a standard length (4.6") .40 S&W Lone Wolf conversion barrel; and even an Advantage Arms .22 LR conversion kit for it. All function flawlessly, even the .22 LR conversion kit (with Thunderbolt 40 gr).

I fell in love with the Glock a long, long time ago, in the early 1980's when I was exposed to the Austrian army P80 (what became known as the G17). The French army at the time (and for many, many more years after that) still had straight-column 9 shots MAC 50 pistols. This was a good, traditional, all-steel pistol, but it was too easy to engage the safety accidentally when racking the slide, and the P80 was a revelation...

My personal G17 is an early Gen 2, like my G20 above. I always liked the 10 mm (Thanks Colonel Cooper!) but also needed a 9x19 because it was the issue ammo.


PS: I note with satisfaction that the Gen 4 (and Gen 5) went back to the flat front strap of the Gen 2 and abandoned the Gen 3 finger groves. I always thought that these were ill-advised...

But I digress

 

[One Day...]

That may have resulted in the three clicks on the elephant. If the bolt was closed quietly that could have led to the first click, and the client probably would not have wanted to rack the R8 forcefully within yards of the elephant, causing a repeat of the issue.

Yeah, no question, if one fails to close the action on a R8, arming the cocking lever and pulling the trigger will result in a click. And I guess that re-arming the cocking lever 2 more times (or 10 more times for that matter) will result in more clicks because the action is still not in battery...

Closing the bolt ever so softly on the R8, and not engaging the bolt lugs in the barrel recesses, is just like riding the slide on a 1911 or M4/AR15 carbine: it results in a weapon that "looks" in battery, but actually is not.

The difference is that few folks seem to blame the 1911 or the M4 for what is obviously an operator mistake.

Oh well................


By the way, to Red Leg's point, everyone who has ever handled a R8 will happily report that a R8 bolt can be closed with 100% reliability, and in quasi complete silence.
All that is needed is to actually push the bolt handle forward until it cannot go forward anymore, the same way a traditional turn bolt needs to be turned down until it cannot turn down anymore. Just like it takes slightly more force to turn the bolt down once the lugs engage in the front bridge tenons, it takes slightly more force to push the R8 bolt forward once the lugs engage the recesses in the barrel.
The "click" mistake results from stopping the bolt forward movement at the first hint of contact between bolt lugs and barrel recesses. No need to "slam" it, all that is needed is to just fully move it forward until it bottoms out.
The only difference with stopping the rotation of a turn bolt is that there is a massive visual clue when a bolt handle is up, but there is a much more subtle visual clue when a R8 bolt is not fully forward (just like on a 1911 or M4/AR15).

 

[Hunting Hitman]

I have been at many hunting camps and brought expensive Mausers and R8's with me. While some like the Mausers the people flock to the R8 and ask all kinds of questions as I am assembling the rifle and putting the scope on.
I have hunted DG with both and while my Mausers have never failed their is no doubt about the superior speed of the R8.

HH

 

[TOBY458]

Bolt rifle failure at crunch time. It’s been shown here before.

This guy has faced his share of bluff charges. And usually stands his ground at mere feet. When he knows it’s a bluff.

He also knows when it’s not a bluff.

Not a good time for a failure to eject or feed

So much for the low pressure 416 Rigby argument. I wonder what caused the case to stick in the chamber?

 

[Datchew]

Get yourself a blaser and have "no ragrets"

 

[One Day...]

Bolt rifle failure at crunch time. It’s been shown here before.

Scary video !! Looks like a failure to extract, he was pounding rearward on the bolt handle and the bolt was still forward. Maybe an R8 would handle an overpressure or otherwise stuck case better than a traditional turnbolt, but I have my doubts.

So much for the low pressure 416 Rigby argument. I wonder what caused the case to stick in the chamber?

Actually, Buzz told me he was using reloads left to him by an American client.

'nough said, right?

I effectively doubt that any action type (turn bolt, CRF, push feed, slide, lever, straight pull, whatever) would make any immediate field difference whatsoever. When an over-pressure load shuts an action closed, it is rubber mallet and prayer time. Those lucky will get their action open, those unlucky may knock off the bolt handle brazed on the bolt, or brake the extractor, or tear the extractor groove off the stuck shell, etc.

But actually, roklok, an R8 would have an advantage back at the truck or in camp. Sort of. Its bolt could probably be unlocked because there is no rear movement of the bolt when the lugs are retracted from the recesses in the barrel. This would leave the possibility to pound the brass out, from the muzzle end with a rod. A turn bolt has more extractive power because typically the bolt moves back as it opens (this is the purpose of the caming surfaces on the handle and rear bridge) but if the bolt refuses to turn, nothing easy can be done...

The supreme irony of course, in Buzz's case, is that this happened with a .416 Rigby, which was specifically designed to operate at lower pressure (52,000 PSI) and remains to this day a favorite .416 because it offers a margin of pressure error over the 65,000 PSI of the .416 Rem (how else could Remington get equivalent ballistics from a lesser capacity shell, duuuuh!!! ). *

But of course if one loads the .416 Rigby at .416 Wby level (after all they both have the same brass aside from the belt, right!), then here you go...

And even if the loads are not purposefully crazy hot, this is why one never, ever uses another man's reloads. Even if they are perfect and you trust the guy with your life, no two chambers are the same and some loads will stick in some rifles and not in others

My own bewildering experience was with a Remington Defense civilian offering of the MK13 .300 Win U.S. sniper rifle. It would extract perfectly with all factory loads, except the Black Hills 190 gr Match load that would weld it shut, while ejecting perfectly from another .300 Win rifle. Go figure


*: .416 Rem owners, fear not, after a rash of over pressure locked action incidents in Africa when the .416 Rem was introduced, most manufacturers discreetly reduced their loads

 

[Altitude sickness]

It was impressive that Buzz hammered that action open and got two shots off at the fleeing cow.

 

[roklok]

It looked like he was able to raise the bolt handle, at least far enough to begin the primary extraction phase. The 1917/P-14/Rem 30 Express actions have helical locking lugs so the bolt starts to move rearward as the bolt is being lifted. Ingenious design.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a fired case seizes in a double rifle on the second shot, isn't the hunter pretty much screwed? Ejector won't work for either barrel and therefore gun becomes a club. With a bolt action the hunter at least has some hope of using the bolt handle to leverage the chamber open, eject the seized case, and cycle the next round.