Mauser 98 vs Blaser R8

[Russ16]

It looked like he was able to raise the bolt handle, at least far enough to begin the primary extraction phase. The 1917/P-14/Rem 30 Express actions have helical locking lugs so the bolt starts to move rearward as the bolt is being lifted. Ingenious design.

Yeah it might not have been that far over pressure but a case that had been fired in a gun with a larger chamber and not fully resized.

I learned that lesson in a not dangerous way. Had two .300 win mags. One with minimum chamber one with a bigger chamber. If I didn’t fully resize brass fired in the larger chamber it would chamber in the smaller one but stick even it it handn’t been fired. I’d have to whack on the bolt handle a few times just like Buzz was doing. I thought it was a pressure issue first time it happened but after having it happen with an unfired round I figured out that I had mixed up my once fired brass.

 

[Datchew]

I think there are essentially two approaches to evaluating firearms. One is from an investment perspective and the other is a value in use perspective.

I have no patience with the former. If I wish to buy an appreciating asset, I'll look at gold, real estate, or obviously, stocks. I purchase a firearm for the confidence and joy it gives me in its use. I am fairly certain that I will be totally unconcerned what its value may be in a hundred years.

It is a bit like the difference between a Colt Gold Cup and Glock G41. The former is classic, and in pristine condition, will appreciate in value. The big Glock is a handgun for all weathers that will take you safely through the years while the Gold Cup sits in the safe.

And as I noted earlier, I also hunt with some very fine firearms. My favorite deer rifle is a Bailey Bradshaw 7x65R, and I'll be tumbling driven pheasants in a couple of weeks with a century-old immaculate James MacNaughton 12 bore. I have hunted Zambia with my Rigby .275. But as @One Day... sadly but accurately reports, Denys Finch Hatten truly has left the continent. Oh we play make believe in tents on a game ranch - though carefully equipped with ensuite flushing toilets and freshly made beds with mattresses rather than cots and canvas tubs - much of the hunting experience is also somewhat contrived. Should using a rifle that replicates that environment as well be important as part of the experience, by all means purchase one.

For me, ease of travel, accuracy, and reliability have, over time, moved far up the hierarchy of needs list. For almost all situations and all weathers, the R8, like the big Glock, answers those requirements perfectly.

I don't always agree with @Red Leg but I could have written this myself!
Good stuff.

 

[Dinsdale]

CMS has a Blaser as a loaner gun available and it’s an R93 too! LOL

Just sayin’.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Already have a G15, G17, G20, G21, G30, G34, and G42 (my wife's)

I love the G20, this is my truck gun. I figure that if I cannot get it done with a 10 mm with three 15 rounds mags, I likely need something belt fed...

View attachment 665376

I have the standard length (4.6") 10 mm barrel; a 6" 10 mm Lone Wolf stainless barrel; a standard length (4.6") .40 S&W Lone Wolf conversion barrel; and even an Advantage Arms .22 LR conversion kit for it. All function flawlessly, even the .22 LR conversion kit (with Thunderbolt 40 gr).

I fell in love with the Glock a long, long time ago, in the early 1980's when I was exposed to the Austrian army P80 (what became known as the G17). The French army at the time (and for many, many more years after that) still had straight-column 9 shots MAC 50 pistols. This was a good, traditional, all-steel pistol, but it was too easy to engage the safety accidentally when racking the slide, and the P80 was a revelation...

My personal G17 is an early Gen 2, like my G20 above. I always liked the 10 mm (Thanks Colonel Cooper!) but also needed a 9x19 because it was the issue ammo.


PS: I note with satisfaction that the Gen 4 (and Gen 5) went back to the flat front strap of the Gen 2 and abandoned the Gen 3 finger groves. I always thought that these were ill-advised...

But I digress

I transitioned from a S&W M66 revolver to my Gen 2 G21 in ‘93 as a duty weapon. Have carried a Gen 3 G22 since about ‘95. A few years ago after probably many thousands of rounds, the left rear steel slide tab broke off the frame when shooting and qualifying on our range. I didn’t know it at the time and finished the courses with no issues. I found the broken tab when cleaning the weapon that evening. I called Glock and told them what happened. I sent the gun to them and had it back within a week, with a new Gen 3 frame and new components. NO CHARGE! The only things they didn’t replace was the slide and barrel. My other Glocks are 27, 29 and 40. IMHO, Glocks may be one of the ugliest “plastic fantastic” pistols ever made, but when your life may hang in the balance of what’s in your shooting hand day after month after too many years, I’ll have the finest combat pistol ever designed in MY hand, the GLOCK!

 

[CoElkHunter]

View attachment 665427


Get yourself a blaser and have "no ragrets"

View attachment 665428

Must be Greek? LOL

 

[R eight]

As others have said…buy and use both.

I even keep an R8 in the same safe as my Rigby’s…..and Tikka T3.

 

[V.Veritas]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a fired case seizes in a double rifle on the second shot, isn't the hunter pretty much screwed? Ejector won't work for either barrel and therefore gun becomes a club. With a bolt action the hunter at least has some hope of using the bolt handle to leverage the chamber open, eject the seized case, and cycle the next round.

On a double the ejectors and firing mechanisms work independently. As long as you can open it, you always have at least a single shoot rifle.

 

[R eight]

I transitioned from a S&W M66 revolver to my Gen 2 G21 in ‘93 as a duty weapon. Have carried a Gen 3 G22 since about ‘95. A few years ago after probably many thousands of rounds, the left rear steel slide tab broke off the frame when shooting and qualifying on our range. I didn’t know it at the time and finished the courses with no issues. I found the broken tab when cleaning the weapon that evening. I called Glock and told them what happened. I sent the gun to them and had it back within a week, with a new Gen 3 frame and new components. NO CHARGE! The only things they didn’t replace was the slide and barrel. My other Glocks are 27, 29 and 40. IMHO, Glocks may be one of the ugliest “plastic fantastic” pistols ever made, but when your life may hang in the balance of what’s in your shooting hand day after month after too many years, I’ll have the finest combat pistol ever designed in MY hand, the GLOCK!

I went from a S&W model 10 in 38 Special as my duty weapon to a H&K USP compact and then to a Glock 19. If my life depended upon a handgun I would choose a Glock.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I went from a S&W model 10 in 38 Special as my duty weapon to a H&K USP compact and then to a Glock 19. If my life depended upon a handgun I would choose a Glock.

In the late ‘70s, I was issued a .38 Special S&W M15 Combat Masterpiece, but I soon bought the M66 and used it due to a revolvers only policy until ‘93 when I bought the G21 working for a different agency. I find it interesting the progression in years from revolvers to semi autos and the reasons behind the changes.

 

[R eight]

In the late ‘70s, I was issued a .38 Special S&W M15 Combat Masterpiece, but I soon bought the M66 and used it due to a revolvers only policy until ‘93 when I bought the G21 working for a different agency. I find it interesting the progression in years from revolvers to semi autos and the reasons behind the changes.

I started in 1980 and retired in 2021. Massive changes in law enforcement and I guess everything during that period.

 

[Kevin375]

The .416 Rigby operates indeed at a lower pressure than most of "modern" calibers but overpressure is indeed possible. I have loaded a bit this caliber and its big cases have a huge capacity, in comparison to the .416 Remington magnum, but the thickness of its wall remains pretty "thin" at the base in comparison to modern cases. The .338 Lapua magnum that shares the same case than the .416 Rigby, at least outside, but shortened, has a thicker wall to handle higher pressures.
A .416 Rigby loaded at the maximum with a double base powder, pretty sensitive to temperature, can indeed provide a big overpressure with the heat of the Zambezi valley and whatever the action, the bolt stuck ! And this video with the elephant cow is pretty old, it was in Buzz's second DVD. I think the real accident who pushed Buzz to buy a double rifle was the one where his tracker Criton was wounded in 2012.

I shared a couple of messages with Buzz a long time ago and he has a Blaser R93 Offroad in .375 H&H magnum for quite a while and he also loans it to his clients. He told me he really liked this rifle and I have seen it quite often in their hands in differents reports. Here is a video where he says the same thing at 36:50

I really like Blaser and I have never had any problem despite intensive use. But If I could afford a nice original Mauser 98 K, I would probably add it to my gun rack. Better to take both in hands and make one's opinion.

 

[Philip Glass]

Yeah, no question, if one fails to close the action on a R8, arming the cocking lever and pulling the trigger will result in a click. And I guess that re-arming the cocking lever 2 more times (or 10 more times for that matter) will result in more clicks because the action is still not in battery...

Closing the bolt ever so softly on the R8, and not engaging the bolt lugs in the barrel recesses, is just like riding the slide on a 1911 or M4/AR15 carbine: it results in a weapon that "looks" in battery, but actually is not.

The difference is that few folks seem to blame the 1911 or the M4 for what is obviously an operator mistake.

Oh well................


By the way, to Red Leg's point, everyone who has ever handled a R8 will happily report that a R8 bolt can be closed with 100% reliability, and in quasi complete silence.
All that is needed is to actually push the bolt handle forward until it cannot go forward anymore, the same way a traditional turn bolt needs to be turned down until it cannot turn down anymore. Just like it takes slightly more force to turn the bolt down once the lugs engage in the front bridge tenons, it takes slightly more force to push the R8 bolt forward once the lugs engage the recesses in the barrel.
The "click" mistake results from stopping the bolt forward movement at the first hint of contact between bolt lugs and barrel recesses. No need to "slam" it, all that is needed is to just fully move it forward until it bottoms out.
The only difference with stopping the rotation of a turn bolt is that there is a massive visual clue when a bolt handle is up, but there is a much more subtle visual clue when a R8 bolt is not fully forward (just like on a 1911 or M4/AR15).

Thank you for this excellent explanation.

 

[Philip Glass]

So much for the low pressure 416 Rigby argument. I wonder what caused the case to stick in the chamber?

It's always the same answer. Reloads.

 

[Philip Glass]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a fired case seizes in a double rifle on the second shot, isn't the hunter pretty much screwed? Ejector won't work for either barrel and therefore gun becomes a club. With a bolt action the hunter at least has some hope of using the bolt handle to leverage the chamber open, eject the seized case, and cycle the next round.

I've never heard of that happening with a double. I am sure it has with all the folks who like their reloads and pushing the boundaries. Put the blame where it deserves to be.

 

[TOBY458]

It's always the same answer. Reloads.

Most likely someone trying to get too much velocity. I might eat my words some day, but I’ve never had a single issue with my hand loads. But then again, I don’t try to push the limits in regards to my loads.

 

[Red Leg]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a fired case seizes in a double rifle on the second shot, isn't the hunter pretty much screwed? Ejector won't work for either barrel and therefore gun becomes a club. With a bolt action the hunter at least has some hope of using the bolt handle to leverage the chamber open, eject the seized case, and cycle the next round.

On an ejector there would be no problem other than being able to only reload one round. They operate independently just like a shotgun.

 

[KJE81]

Most likely someone trying to get too much velocity. I might eat my words some day, but I’ve never had a single issue with my hand loads. But then again, I don’t try to push the limits in regards to my loads.

Me neither, but then of course, I always keep my loads within the recommanded max/min-loads