Mauser actions

[thoma018]

Is there a thread or discussion on the various Mauser actions and which ones are suitable for 375 HH and above builds. I know "nothing" about Mausers and see actions that are "k 98", ones thar are DWM 1909 Argentine, "standard 98" , Yugoslavian Mausers, Turkish M38, Spanish, Yougo model 48, Chilean Mausers etc etc and can not find a good source for information on the differences etc .......And if these Mauser actions are used to build,, say a 375 H&H what modifications must be done for reliable feeding and chambering and magazine feeding ?? Do bolt faces have to be opened up ? At what stage is to much metal removed possibly weaking the action ? Can 3 position "Winchester "/Gentry style safety be installed on these actions ? I see lots of info on Mausers and lots of big bore rifles on "old" Mauser actions but have no idea how to evaluate one. Please give a bit of help/direction on how to decipher all the Mauser info.
Thanks

 

[baxterb]

I helped Duane Wiebe make a brochure on the basic process of how a conversion is done. You could see if he has any left.

The basic answer to ‘what needs to be changed on a standard Mauser to convert it to 375’ is “everything.”

 

[Inkgardener]

I helped Duane Wiebe make a brochure on the basic process of how a conversion is done. You could see if he has any left.

The basic answer to ‘what needs to be changed on a standard Mauser to convert it to 375’ is “everything.”

Yeah I bought one of those little pamphlets and realized it’s not really worth it. Buy a .375…

 

[Muskox]

If you can find a copy of Speed's book on Mausers that would probably also be of interest.

 

[SaintPanzer]

I am curious about this as well. I agree with a now-missing post that there are many stock rifles out there. But here's the thing:

I have one FN unbarelled Mauser action. I will need to build it into "something".

I have a .30-06. I have a 7X57. I see these two as redundant, but one is a single shot, the other a bolt. Either way, I don't need the same.

A .375 H&H would be good. A .300 H&H would also be good. Ideal would be a "Traveler", but now we're dreaming. While we're dreaming, add a .275 H&H to the list. Oh, and while I'm dreaming, I'd like a pony.

Anyway... my other thought is maybe a 9.3X64. But even that would need mods. Or if I can find someone who can do a Traveler, then .25-06/.30-06/.35 Whelen.So where to start? Is there contact info for Mr. Wiebe?

 

[PCC600]

If you can find a copy of Speed's book on Mausers that would probably also be of interest.

A really helpful book .

 

[mark-hunter]

Is there a thread or discussion on the various Mauser actions and which ones are suitable for 375 HH and above builds. I know "nothing" about Mausers and see actions that are "k 98", ones thar are DWM 1909 Argentine, "standard 98" , Yugoslavian Mausers, Turkish M38, Spanish, Yougo model 48, Chilean Mausers etc etc and can not find a good source for information on the differences etc .......And if these Mauser actions are used to build,, say a 375 H&H what modifications must be done for reliable feeding and chambering and magazine feeding ?? Do bolt faces have to be opened up ? At what stage is to much metal removed possibly weaking the action ? Can 3 position "Winchester "/Gentry style safety be installed on these actions ? I see lots of info on Mausers and lots of big bore rifles on "old" Mauser actions but have no idea how to evaluate one. Please give a bit of help/direction on how to decipher all the Mauser info.

Welcome to M98 fan club!
I think this subject is covered in many topics on the this forum, but I am not sure that this actual question is covered separately.
I will provide some partial answers.

Action lenght, magnum or medium?
First to look is the length of action.
It should be either magnum length action, to properly take DG cartridges, or medium lenght with some compromises.
Magnum lengt action to my knowledge, nobody produces anymore for reasonable money.
The first one to look, is new German DWM Mauser 98, which now goes for 14k.
Next down by price are Brno rifles on second hand market: ZKK 602 or CZ 550.
So magnum lenght is either new for 14K or above, or second hand Brno rifles.

Magnum lenght action being covered above, we are going to next option, medium lenght.

Medium lenght action options, and restrictions:
New rifes: Winchester M70, zastava M70, Voere (Austria), comes to mind. But Voere does produce up to 9.3x62 only. And ruger (but for ruger, some argue it is not proper CRF system)
Generally speaking medium action will have smaller magazine capacity, down to three rounds or less.
Magnum length (and wide) action will have 5 or up to 6 rounds in magazine of 375 H&H size cartridge.

Most common calibers for medium length m98 action, for DG:
- 458 win mag, designed to fit medium length action with cartridge LOA 3.34 inch.
- 375 H&H, although not designed for medium action, it is most popular caliber which motivates factories to "upgrade" the medium lenght action, with some "adjustments" and compromises.
- 375 Ruger (in ruger line of rifles)
- 416 Remington magnum (available in winchester m70)

About actions and lengths and related details to take care about.
Some factories made war time Mausers on short medium action. For example, Zastava made M48 (K98 clone), on 5 mm shorter action from original design. In the same time, they produce m70 hunting rifle on standard medium length action and can chamber 458 WM and 375 HH.
So, if going in direction of customizing some mil surp rifle, pay attention to this detail. Do not build it on shorter medium action. Which other factories built k98 clone on shorter medium length action I do not know, but zastava probably is not the only one.

Below is photo from older gun digest annual magazine, on older type winchester m70 rifle, you can see the differences between 30-06 and 375 H&H, and how it was designed to fit longer cartridge on same action lenght.

Winchester type safety:
Can be installed.

Brno rifles:
ZKK 602 and CZ 550 are different then most mauser clones. But those safeties are made by company AHR (American Hunting rifles - do the google)

Other rifles:
Other M98 clones are similar to original design, and there is number of factories which produce WInchester style safety. You can google around. Try google "recknagel" to give just one example, for a start.

NON DG calibers.
If you want a rifle up to 9.3x62, you can safely look for CRF rifle, on medium length action, and it will be fine for customizing from mil surp action, or take a look at some of new factory productions

 

[Antho9364]

I am curious about this as well. I agree with a now-missing post that there are many stock rifles out there. But here's the thing:

I have one FN unbarelled Mauser action. I will need to build it into "something".

I have a .30-06. I have a 7X57. I see these two as redundant, but one is a single shot, the other a bolt. Either way, I don't need the same.

A .375 H&H would be good. A .300 H&H would also be good. Ideal would be a "Traveler", but now we're dreaming. While we're dreaming, add a .275 H&H to the list. Oh, and while I'm dreaming, I'd like a pony.

Anyway... my other thought is maybe a 9.3X64. But even that would need mods. Or if I can find someone who can do a Traveler, then .25-06/.30-06/.35 Whelen.So where to start? Is there contact info for Mr. Wiebe?

Indeed, the 9.3x64 requires very slight modifications, but less than a 375 HH in a standard M98 case.
With the 9.3x64, you're guaranteed nothing superfluous.
It's a caliber that deserves serious attention.

 

[KJE81]

My new custom Mauser M98 is built on a DWM/Argentine Mauser action. It holds 4 rounds in the magazine and one in the barrel. I choosed to have it built on that action both because I like the classic style with the older action with thumb cutout but also because it was quite a lot cheaper then building on a new Magnum action. After reading Terry Wielands book Dangerous Game Rifles it was an easy choice for me.

It is however only a .375 H&H, with a bigger caliber I would probably had to pay up for a Magnum Mauser action.

 

[Josh P]

I helped Duane Wiebe make a brochure on the basic process of how a conversion is done. You could see if he has any left.

The basic answer to ‘what needs to be changed on a standard Mauser to convert it to 375’ is “everything.”

I received mine a few weeks ago. While it isn’t as “voluminous” as I’d have hoped, even for a pamphlet, it has some very good information that is difficult to find online. It is worth having if you plan to dabble in these things and Duane was very kind and pleasant to speak with over the phone. His caveat about the pamphlet was that he thinks he should have added more information about the magazine dimensions. Those formulas and examples can be found on this forum and were exactly what he was referring to when giving me an extra pointer.

 

[rdog]

Is there a thread or discussion on the various Mauser actions and which ones are suitable for 375 HH and above builds. I know "nothing" about Mausers and see actions that are "k 98", ones thar are DWM 1909 Argentine, "standard 98" , Yugoslavian Mausers, Turkish M38, Spanish, Yougo model 48, Chilean Mausers etc etc and can not find a good source for information on the differences etc .......And if these Mauser actions are used to build,, say a 375 H&H what modifications must be done for reliable feeding and chambering and magazine feeding ?? Do bolt faces have to be opened up ? At what stage is to much metal removed possibly weaking the action ? Can 3 position "Winchester "/Gentry style safety be installed on these actions ? I see lots of info on Mausers and lots of big bore rifles on "old" Mauser actions but have no idea how to evaluate one. Please give a bit of help/direction on how to decipher all the Mauser info.
Thanks

In my experience if you want a M98 Mauser action for a 375 H&H find a Zastava in 375 , no mods req , good product a little rough but smooth up easily, the 375 versions are marked 375 on the underside with an engraver , all modern steel, good triggers no thumb cut out, much cheaper than modifying a old military action , not a Rigby, but a factory built quality 375 action .

 

[Dholupko]

I, too, have wanted to make this conversion. I have three 1909 Argentines waiting patiently to be completed and considered using one for a project just like you are.

I will give you some random thoughts. First I acknowledge that this conversion has been made and I know of none that have failed. I have barreled Mauser actions from 22-250 to 35 Whelen and shoot them regularly.

The military Mauser action was designed for the 7x57 and 8x57. Wikipedia states these cartridges are 37,000 CUP. The common conversion to a 30-06 is at 50,000 CUP. By changing cartridges we have taken away some of the safety factor of a known strong action. How much more can it take? I don’t know and I’ve never heard anyone give even a rough guess. We just know that it hasn’t blown up yet.

Mausers are made of mild steel and case hardened. Modern actions are commonly made of 4140 or 4340. Some refer to the later a nickel chromium steel. To say that the later are stronger would be an understatement.

In making the conversion to 375 H&H a cut in the bottom of the action, directly behind the lower locking lug, has to be made to accommodate the length of the cartridge. I’ve also seen where cuts were made in the top of the action behind the upper lug. By doing so we used up some more safety factor. Additionally, the base of a 375 is .059” larger than a 30-06 which means our bolt thrust is greater.

I don’t have an answer to the puzzle I can only say, that for me, there are enough unknowns that I decided to build another 35 Whelen with one of the Argentines and wait for an action that was designed for that size cartridge.

I’m very sorry. I hate being the wet blanket especially on a cool gun project. I want one too but I must have small kahoonas.

 

[baxterb]

Darcy Echols on his blog did a write up on converting a pre-64 30-06 to a 300 H&H. It is worth a read to see how those who really know how to do it, do it. To do it well and right ain’t a walk in the park.

If I had a 30-06 Mauser I wanted to make something different, I’d do a 35 Whelen. As a matter of fact I have a NOS Echols Mauser bottom metal from way back in the day that I intend to use to do just that.

 

[thoma018]

I, too, have wanted to make this conversion. I have three 1909 Argentines waiting patiently to be completed and considered using one for a project just like you are.

I will give you some random thoughts. First I acknowledge that this conversion has been made and I know of none that have failed. I have barreled Mauser actions from 22-250 to 35 Whelen and shoot them regularly.

The military Mauser action was designed for the 7x57 and 8x57. Wikipedia states these cartridges are 37,000 CUP. The common conversion to a 30-06 is at 50,000 CUP. By changing cartridges we have taken away some of the safety factor of a known strong action. How much more can it take? I don’t know and I’ve never heard anyone give even a rough guess. We just know that it hasn’t blown up yet.

Mausers are made of mild steel and case hardened. Modern actions are commonly made of 4140 or 4340. Some refer to the later a nickel chromium steel. To say that the later are stronger would be an understatement.

In making the conversion to 375 H&H a cut in the bottom of the action, directly behind the lower locking lug, has to be made to accommodate the length of the cartridge. I’ve also seen where cuts were made in the top of the action behind the upper lug. By doing so we used up some more safety factor. Additionally, the base of a 375 is .059” larger than a 30-06 which means our bolt thrust is greater.

I don’t have an answer to the puzzle I can only say, that for me, there are enough unknowns that I decided to build another 35 Whelen with one of the Argentines and wait for an action that was designed for that size cartridge.

I’m very sorry. I hate being the wet blanket especially on a cool gun project. I want one too but I must have small kahoonas.

I appreciate your perspective and comments. That is somewhat the same thinking I have. I see rifles in 375 H&J on the web for sale from various sights. Some may be DWM 1909 Argentine action (? Made by Mauser for Argentina—is this correct ?, some Interarms mark x whitworth (? Made by Mauser and imported to England for the build —is this correct ?) and still other that are unnamed 275 H&H. Not knowing who the builder of a rifle may have been brings relevance to the “trustworthiness” of a particular arm. And then once in a great while I see an old discontinued model Savage 375 HH which I suppose one could have all the confidence in….some of the old savage models had control round feed but I have no idea if this is the same or a different than the Winchester CRF. Anyone happen to know this ? Please educate me, there are lots of knowledgable folks on this forum—I’m all ears!

 

[thoma018]

@mark-hunter--thanks for that information, thats the most anyone has offered thus far.​

 

[Hoofnit]

Personally converting Mauser 98’s to 375 just makes a wonderful classic rifle, any action made before 1920 or so should be re heat treated, that said once done they are as good or better than anything out there