Mixing shot size

[IdaRam]

Interesting...
Without having given it any consideration, I guess I would have expected just the opposite to occur. Smaller shot decelerating more quickly

 

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Interesting...
Without having given it any consideration, I guess I would have expected just the opposite to occur. Smaller shot decelerating more quickly

This is what I was always taught to believe......lighter mass; air resistance...the smaller/lighter shot slows more quickly.

 

[Roseman]

My physics is a bit rusty but lets look at Newton's second law F=M x A with F being the force, M is the mass and A is acceleration. The force being equal, the larger mass would exhibit slower acceleration.
The smaller shot would have a higher acceleration than the larger shot.
Air friction formula is F air= C x V2 when C is the air constant and V is the velocity.
This formula shows because the velocity of the smaller shot is higher, the force of friction on it is exponentially higher.
That is why the smaller shot starts out faster and also slows down faster.

Any physics teachers out there?

 

[Roseman]

Don't know what happened to my edit button but the last line should say 'slows down sooner'.

 

[IdaRam]

I may be wrong, but I believe there is a flaw in your logic.

My physics is a bit rusty but lets look at Newton's second law F=M x A with F being the force, M is the mass and A is acceleration. The force being equal, the larger mass would exhibit slower acceleration.

The entire shot column is accelerating at the same rate. The smaller shot does not have a higher acceleration rate than the larger shot. When they exit the muzzle all the pellets are traveling at the same velocity.

The smaller shot would have a higher acceleration than the larger shot.

That is why the smaller shot starts out faster and also slows down faster.

The smaller shot should decelerate more rapidly than the larger shot.

Regardless, your point about giving consideration to which shot to put on top may be a valid one. I would probably put the larger shot on top though

 

[Mr. 16 gauge]

I also remember reading a "how-to" article YEARS ago (before duplex loads were being commercially made) where the author was instructing one how to load duplex turkey loads.....he loaded 7 1/2 shot in a paper tube that he placed in the center of the hull, and packed the larger shot around the outside......don't remember dimensions, volumes, etc.; it was back in the mid 70's, and I can barely remember what I had for dinner tonight!

 

[Roseman]

The shot column does leave the barrel at the same velocity. Once free of the barrel, all the shot begins to decelerate. Initially, the smaller shot decelerates at a slower rate than the heavier shot effectively allowing it to move ahead of the larger shot. Newtons second law proves this.
As the shot string travels however, the Air Friction formula shows that the smaller shot will begin to decelerate at a higher rate than the larger shot thereby allowing the larger shot to outpace the smaller shot at some distance.
The actual distance that the smaller shot moves ahead of the larger shot and the distance the larger shot outpaces the smaller shot is relative to the differences in the two shot sizes.
Loading the larger shot on top theoretically will exhibit degradation of the shot string and pattern.

 

[IdaRam]

Why does the smaller shot decelerate more slowly at first and then more rapidly? I may be a little slow on the uptake, but I am not trackin' with ya.

 

[Roseman]

It decelerates at a slower rate than the heavier shot. In other words, the heavier shot is slowing down quicker. At that point, the smaller shot is moving ahead of the larger shot.
Once the shot moves some distance, friction causes the smaller shot to slow down at a greater rate than the larger shot. At some further distance, the larger shot will overtake the smaller shot.

 

[IdaRam]

It decelerates at a slower rate than the heavier shot. In other words, the heavier shot is slowing down quicker. At that point, the smaller shot is moving ahead of the larger shot.

What is causing the smaller shot to decelerate at a lesser rate here ? ^^^^^^^^^

Once the shot moves some distance, friction causes the smaller shot to slow down at a greater rate than the larger shot. At some further distance, the larger shot will overtake the smaller shot.

And the larger shot to decelerate at a lesser rate here? ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Remember, the entire shot column (both sizes of shot) exits the muzzle at the same velocity and immediately begins decelerating. Friction goes to work on both shot sizes at the same time. The laws of physics apply equally to both sizes of shot equally and constantly.

 

[Roseman]

That would be true if all the shot was going the same speed after it leaves the barrel.
After leaving the barrel, the smaller shot is moving faster than the larger shot ( or decelerating at a slower rate).
Friction is a function of speed ( velocity). More friction is experienced by the faster object that the slower. The faster object slows down at a more rapid rate than the slower.

 

[IdaRam]

OK, we may not reach a point of agreement. Or maybe I'm just not smart enough to understand Anyhow, welcome to AH! It's been a pleasure chatting with you. I know you will enjoy this site immensely.
My best and see ya around

 

[Roseman]

Thank's and I'm sure you are smart enough.
I'm just not doing a good enough job explaining it.

By the way, you have some great pictures on here.

 

[IdaRam]

Thank you sir!

 

[Diamondhitch]

My thinking is the same as most, the smaller shot will decelerate faster than the larger shot. Are you sure you aren't confusing rifle ballistics here, in that a rifle can fire a lighter projectile faster therefore it will have a better trajectory and higher velocity than a heavier one until the larger projectiles momentum (therefore its ability to maintain velocity) wins out?

 

[Roseman]

The smaller shot will decelerate faster but not as it exits the barrel. Because it is lighter (has less mass), it will exit the barrel faster than the larger shot. At some later time, the item with the heavier mass will overtake the lighter one.

This scenario is only valid for the mixed loadings we have been discussing.

 

[thriller]

I used hevi shot 4-5-6-7.5 mixed 3 1/2 in 10ga loads with 2 5/8 oz of shot for turkey. This load works well for me as the shots are head shots at 10 to 50 yards. The mixed shot in my gun has a lethal pattern out to 60 yards. While this load patterns well it kicks like a mule. I think in most applications this type of load would be a gimmick but for turkey it is awesome.