mono vs lead for Cape Buffalo?

[Puddle]

South Africa
Legal requirements in most Southern African countries stipulate a minimum of 375 for all dangerous game. A 375 or larger is recommended for Buffalo or Lion, while hunting Hippo, Elephant, or White Rhino may necessitate a caliber larger than 375.

In RSA a .375 on gubmint land. On private land? No so much...

I've yet to bump into a PH that didn't like a quality bullet out of a 9.3mm on buff.

 

[SStomcat]

And one last question: Stopping a charge straight head on within feet. Are you aiming for the head, neck or is it so fast and intense it's spray and pray and hit whatever you can? Is a solid or Barnes TSX best for a head on charge?

That thing will come at a speed where you will be challenged to aim and place a proper shot. If you have not spotted the beast and are in thick cover a charge from less than 10 feet is extremely dangerous. In this situation a debate between soft and solid becomes inconsequential.

What my PH tells me and this is interesting... is when an injured bull heads into thick cover, safety over anything else takes priority. Many outfitters now use a drone to spot the bull's position for the final kill.

 

[sgt_zim]

It seems that some fragmenting lead and energy dump inside the buffalo leads to quicker kills over the mono-mentals and solids? Plus, less chance of over penetrating? Seems to be a plus.

I was surprised to read people use the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw TBBC on buffalo and it's success. Another bullet that could be a great buffalo round is the Federal Trophy Bonded Tip (TBT) is a thick base bonded lead core design like the TBBC but with a plastic tip and a bit more streamlined design.

I know moose are not buffalo but, from my own hunting experience in Alaska with the 300 RUM using the Berger's they have a much greater effect on moose after they're hit with that compared to the Barnes TSX. The Berger fragments and dumps it's energy inside the animal leading to a quicker kill. The moose reacts differently to Berger's as if it's been shocked and then it's legs buckle. I've never had a moose run off after being hit with a Berger but, they have run over 100 yards after being hit with the Barnes TSX on many occasions.

There is no energy dumping, there is only vital tissue destruction. And the name of the game on vital tissue destruction is penetration.

A bullet that completely fragments on impact will have dumped all its energy on the hide and the tissue just under the hide, and have only produced a flesh wound.

Streamlined, high-BC bullets confer no advantages at the shooting distances of dangerous game. With a zero of 100 yards, practically every cartridge made has a ballistic arc within an inch or two of every other cartridge out to that distance. Streamlined bullets start to show their value past 200 yards, and come into their own around 300 yards and beyond.

As far as KE, it's an interesting thing to know, but doesn't tell everything.

A 230 lb running back running at 18 mph is going to hit a defender with about 3000 ft lbs of kinetic energy. That impact produces a vastly different result than a bullet hitting flesh with 3000 ft lbs of energy. So like I said, interesting info to have and to be able to compare potential results, but doesn't say much besides that.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

A sample size of 2...

I used 325 grain Cutting Edge brass solids on both of my buffalo. The first was a frontal shot at 40 yards. The bullet was recovered from a hindquarter and the buffalo died within about 10 seconds and 20 yards. The second was a side shot as it ran by me. Distance was about 40 yards, the buff ran maybe 30 more yards and was down/dead in about ten seconds. The bullet was recovered just under the skin on the far side, having broken ribs and taken out the heart.

For those familiar with the second Hellboy movie, I referred to this as my 'golden army'.

 

[Rare Breed]

TSX and only TSX for me

While I agree with Philip Swift A Frames aren’t a bad second

 

[Mountaineer]

I’m no expert by any stretch, but I shot my first and only Buffalo with a 400 grain Woodleigh bonded soft point. It flattened out to 1.2 inch diameter and the Buffalo ran about 20 yards or so and tipped over. The two other guys with me used my gun to shoot their buffs. One never made it out of its tracks, the other about 30 yards. All three buff had a dramatic reaction to each shot. The energy dump and vitals destruction was impressive. All three were broad side shoulder shots.

 

[375Fox]

That thing will come at a speed where you will be challenged to aim and place a proper shot. If you have not spotted the beast and are in thick cover a charge from less than 10 feet is extremely dangerous. In this situation a debate between soft and solid becomes inconsequential.

What my PH tells me and this is interesting... is when an injured bull heads into thick cover, safety over anything else takes priority. Many outfitters now use a drone to spot the bull's position for the final kill.

Maybe drones are becoming common in South Africa but I hope I never see one on a hunt for that purpose unless it’s an extreme circumstance. It would ruin a lot of the hunting experience for me.

 

[375Fox]

Wow! What a horrible tragedy. This is scary for many reasons.

This story has me really thinking. For a Cape Buffalo to kill an experienced PH shows how dangerous and intelligent they are. In the story above it almost alludes to the buffalo sort of ambushing them in a flanking maneuver while it was lying in wait. Which shows a certain level of intelligence. Also, the tracker not shooting the buffalo before or after it gored the PH which makes me question how confident I could be in trusting a tracker to save my life if I was gored or trampled.

I'm obviously not an expert and I don't like to second guess but I think two different types of firearms are needed - one is a hunting rifle for distance shooting and once the buffalo is wounded it now becomes a defensive situation and for that situation a different weapon is needed - a CQB short-barreled weapon in semi-auto for quick maneuverability say a AR15 chambered in 458 socom or a double action revolver S&W 500 attached to a lanyard. I wouldn't want to track a wounded buffalo with a long heavy bolt-action rifle with a 24" to 30" inch barrel. Bolt-action rifles are not defensive weapons in tight close encounters where speed is needed.

I personally would want the trackers being equipped with defensive weapons even AK's in 308 with a 30 round magazine and unload on the buffalo.

Also, wearing a bullet proof vest to prevent being gored ?

That podcast I posted on bullets has some very good podcasts with Kevin Robertson on buffalo as well. It’s a great resource to the average hunter. They would be good for you to listen to. I learned a lot from them. You’re really overthinking with some incorrect assumptions. Very few buffalo hunts will result in a charge. In most cases a wounded buffalo will choose to run away. In the right situation or right wounded buffalo you’ll get a charge, but you shouldn’t go in expecting one like a Mark Sullivan video. You put a quality bullet in the right place and the buffalo will be dead in 100 yards and that’s the goal. Find a quality bolt action rifle that fits you well and points properly. African countries don’t allow import of semi-auto guns. A tracker behind you with a semi auto rifle he expects to use is considerably more dangerous than the wounded buffalo. Most are not disciplined in that way or familiar with firearms to be an asset in that situation. It’s about well placed bullets not volume of bullets.

 

[Carnivore hunter]

Have any of you noticed any real world differences in how different mono-metal bullets perform on buffalo? Specifically, the differences between mono's that mushroom vs mono's that shed petals i.e. Barnes TSX vs CEB's and Hammer's? Differences in penetration, expansion, tissue damage and quicker kills?

 

[Altitude sickness]

That podcast I posted on bullets has some very good podcasts with Kevin Robertson on buffalo as well. It’s a great resource to the average hunter. They would be good for you to listen to. I learned a lot from them. You’re really overthinking with some incorrect assumptions. Very few buffalo hunts will result in a charge. In most cases a wounded buffalo will choose to run away. In the right situation or right wounded buffalo you’ll get a charge, but you shouldn’t go in expecting one like a Mark Sullivan video. You put a quality bullet in the right place and the buffalo will be dead in 100 yards and that’s the goal. Find a quality bolt action rifle that fits you well and points properly. African countries don’t allow import of semi-auto guns. A tracker behind you with a semi auto rifle he expects to use is considerably more dangerous than the wounded buffalo. Most are not disciplined in that way or familiar with firearms to be an asset in that situation. It’s about well placed bullets not volume of bullets.

I agree, I was more concerned with a loaded AK-47 behind me. Not a charging Buffalo. Luckily they have by far the most obvious safety position indicator made. So while he is sweeping everyone in the hunting party with his muzzle, it’s easy to see that the rifle is at least on safe from 10-20 yards. Not that I enjoy it being pointed at me. At least I can see its condition.

 

[grand veneur]

Have any of you noticed any real world differences in how different mono-metal bullets perform on buffalo? Specifically, the differences between mono's that mushroom vs mono's that shed petals i.e. Barnes TSX vs CEB's and Hammer's? Differences in penetration, expansion, tissue damage and quicker kills?

Despite my reluctance to give recommendations on this topic and since no one is answering, I will do it. In Burkina Faso, a hunter shot a West African buffalo with one shot from his double rifle caliber 9,3x74R and a Sologne 238gr GPA bullet, a typical fragment bullet that shed petals. I had the greatest concerns before the hunt, but with a very good shot placement the buffalo fled immediately but fell dead after a few hundred meters. I cannot say much more about it because I don't know how the bullet worked in the game and what was left of it.

 

[Aaron N]

Have any of you noticed any real world differences in how different mono-metal bullets perform on buffalo? Specifically, the differences between mono's that mushroom vs mono's that shed petals i.e. Barnes TSX vs CEB's and Hammer's? Differences in penetration, expansion, tissue damage and quicker kills?

@Altitude sickness just posted about taking a buff with his 416 Taylor and CEB’s. Maybe he can chime in.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Hi there, @Carnivore hunter

Highlighted in bold below, are the answers to your queries.

“I remember back around the 2010 to 2018 period on some African hunting forums the bullets of choice for Cape Buffalo were the Swift A-Frames and Barnes TSX. Are those two still the preferred favorites for Cape Buffalo or have others come and surpassed them in performance for quicker killing power?”

Ans: Yes. Along with the North Fork Semi Spitzer, Rhino Solid Shank, Trophy Bonded Bear Claw & Wim Degol Stark Mantel.

“And, have you guys noticed a difference in how Cape Buffalo react after being hit with bullets that mushroom vs bullets that fragment/shed petals? Are the newer fragmenting mono's that shed petals (CEB, Hammer, Lehigh) more effective than the mushrooming bullets?”

Ans: Both kill Cape buffalo equally well. The only place where one definitely outshines the other, is when hunting the great cats. In that case, lead cored bullets perform better than monometal bullets for heart-lung shots.


“Shot placement: What is the ideal shot placement on Cape Buffalo? Do you favor shoulder shots or behind the shoulder soft tissue lung shots for the quickest way to drop a Cape Buffalo? Is it best to get a broadside shot?”

Ans: Easiest target for a novice is the double lung shot, where the hunter’s point of aim is behind the shoulder. The margin for error is quite permissible and it is the largest target on the game. The Cape buffalo will go a maximum of 100 yards, coughing blood before he expires.

“And one last question: Stopping a charge straight head on within feet. Are you aiming for the head, neck or is it so fast and intense it's spray and pray and hit whatever you can? Is a solid or Barnes TSX best for a head on charge?”

Ans: We typically wait until the Cape buffalo is five to seven yards away and fire at his head, right beneath the boss of the horns when he begins to lower his head in order to attack. Not a shot for the faint hearted. Swift A Frame or Barnes TSX can easily penetrate the region beneath boss.

 

[spike.t]

Wow! What a horrible tragedy. This is scary for many reasons.

This story has me really thinking. For a Cape Buffalo to kill an experienced PH shows how dangerous and intelligent they are. In the story above it almost alludes to the buffalo sort of ambushing them in a flanking maneuver while it was lying in wait. Which shows a certain level of intelligence. Also, the tracker not shooting the buffalo before or after it gored the PH which makes me question how confident I could be in trusting a tracker to save my life if I was gored or trampled.

I'm obviously not an expert and I don't like to second guess but I think two different types of firearms are needed - one is a hunting rifle for distance shooting and once the buffalo is wounded it now becomes a defensive situation and for that situation a different weapon is needed - a CQB short-barreled weapon in semi-auto for quick maneuverability say a AR15 chambered in 458 socom or a double action revolver S&W 500 attached to a lanyard. I wouldn't want to track a wounded buffalo with a long heavy bolt-action rifle with a 24" to 30" inch barrel. Bolt-action rifles are not defensive weapons in tight close encounters where speed is needed.

I personally would want the trackers being equipped with defensive weapons even AK's in 308 with a 30 round magazine and unload on the buffalo.

Also, wearing a bullet proof vest to prevent being gored ?

Reading this I'm hoping you aren't being serious....but unfortunately....actually feel you are....

 

[mark-hunter]

Reading this I'm hoping you aren't being serious....but unfortunately....actually feel you are....

That was my feeling too, so i commented to the best of my knowledge if you will se my earlier reply on this.

 

[Red Leg]

Reading this I'm hoping you aren't being serious....but unfortunately....actually feel you are....

That was my feeling too, so i commented to the best of my knowledge if you will se my earlier reply on this.

For stopping them in the wire, I really think an M-60 would be the way to go. You wouldn't need a full can of ammo - 30 rounds would likely be just enough.

 

[Pondoro]

From my experience..I do not think it matters much.. I have only used TSX in .375H&H (235 grain) on african antelope..the work fine.. They give large wound channels..somewhat larger than mushrooms..

However..mushrooming premium bullets kill very effectively. I saw a big male buff shot with a .375H&H with 300 grain Swift A-frame this summer...two fast lung shots...it went 20m and died..

Myself I shot a large buff bull with a .470 with 500 grain DGX Bonded. The buffalo was hit so hard (lungshot) that it was not able to move at all. I gave it a follow up but it was not really necessary.. The first shot trashed both lungs completely..

If you ask PH´s they normally shrug their shoulders and say the die anyway..

 

[Altitude sickness]

I have archery hunted Buffalo twice and only killed two with a rifle. My wife killed one with a .375 H&H 300 grain TSX. It went 20 yards tipped over and bellowed shortly after. She sent a few more at the direction of the PH for insurance

My bull was walking and none of us saw a cow back in the brush behind the bull. Using my .416 Taylor and a 370 safari raptor. I shot the bull in the shoulder and heart. If it wasn’t on incline down to a small ditch. It would have moved. The bull fell forward and landed in the small drainage approximately 7 yds from impact. Dead by the time we walked up. No bellows.

The tracker told the pH and I that he saw a cow runoff uphill and acted like it had been shot. We both said no way there were no cows in the area.

After the trackers left for the truck and we had thoroughly examined the bull, we said what the heck let’s go look up Hill where he saw the cow. sure as heck there was blood and a dead cow 60 yards away. The raptor killed the bull almost instantly and the cow very quickly also.

Fortunately, the pH had a lion Hunter coming right after me and needed bait and he had quota for more bait Buffalo cows.

But the game tracker agreed the cow was not visible to us. So I don’t think it would have caused an issue.

 

[SStomcat]

Maybe drones are becoming common in South Africa but I hope I never see one on a hunt for that purpose unless it’s an extreme circumstance. It would ruin a lot of the hunting experience for me.

So, how many of you would prefer to take on a charge knowing full well that it is imminent, and in a brush so thick that you cannot see beyond a few feet? Distance is the key here and I'm not referring to a charge from 20 to 30 yards which is normal

 

[Red Leg]

To respond seriously to the original OP, I have killed 4 bulls, all with a .375 in three different rifles. I have been around the taking of several others. Of mine, two were taken with a TSX and two with A-Frames. All were essentially one shot kills, with the animal down within twenty-yards. Two were given safety final shots.

As a client, I would not use a solid of any description for my first shot at a buffalo under any circumstances. Frankly, I would not use one at all, I do not care what my PH suggested, but you should follow his guidance. Were I headed out tomorrow morning, my rifle (a .375) would be fully loaded with A Frames.

I will not use a fragmenting or petal shedding bullet on a whitetail, much less a cape buffalo and would be stunned if any PH would think that was a good idea.

The actual lesson I would take very much to heart from the incident with Greg Michelson is shot placement. As a client, we really have only one responsibility in approaching a buffalo - put the first shot, with a quality bullet, exactly where it needs to go. Do that and everyone goes home to celebrate the conclusion of a great hunt. Screw that first shot up, and a client may have the opportunity to deal with a very unpleasant what should have been for the rest of his life while a PH's or Tracker's family deals with much more.

Like @375Fox, I pray no PH ever packs along a drone on one of my hunts.