mono vs lead for Cape Buffalo?

[375Fox]

A lot of very informative information on this thread.

A lot of information so far has been about first shot placement - shoulder shots. Now, where specifically on the shoulder for best chance to anchor the buffalo? I've been looking at photos of the anatomy of the buffalo. Should the first shot be a high shoulder blade shot where the shoulder blade is in front of the spine to try to break the shoulder blade and spine at the same time or shoot lower on the shoulder to try to hit the lungs?

https://www.africahunting.com/hunting/shot-placement/buffalo_shot_placement.jpg

You aim for the top of the heart in that photo. Your goal isn’t to anchor a buffalo. It’s to put a bullet through the heart or both lungs. It will go down typically within a 100 yards and you’ll walk up and put a safety shot into it. Very non-eventful. If a buffalo dropped immediately I’d get ready to put a second shot in before a potentially long and dangerous day followed.

Once again. Buy a copy of the perfect shot. It’s only a few dollars. Africa’s most dangerous will go into much more detail about buffalo but is difficult to find for sale.

 

[SStomcat]

I’m not sure where you think a charge from 30 yards is normal? A charge itself isn’t normal, but the chances will increase the tighter quarters it gets. There are lots of buffalo charge YouTube videos available of different circumstances. If you are using that video as an example to justify using a drone I won’t understan tv d your reasoning. They knew the buffalo was coming and the dogs very possibly instigated the charge. Some mistakes were made but it made a cool video especially since no one was seriously hurt in end. Choose who you hunt dangerous game with carefully. Lots of PH can legally take you DG hunting but not all actually have the experience or have proper trackers. If the first response to a wounded buffalo is getting the drone I’d have some concerns.

Here is a counter example (not my video). Note the role quality trackers play in reading the situation before it occurs. No dogs or drones.

The PH fires the first and third shot, possibly killing it, I’d prefer the PH wait for me to take the first shot before firing.

 

[mark-hunter]

Well, two lungs, and upper part of heart if you want to be detailed.
Take robertsons book, while you prepare for safari

 

[375Fox]

The PH fires the first and third shot, possibly killing it, I’d prefer the PH wait for me to take the first shot before firing.

The client fired the first shot long before that 30 second clip occurred. That’s a follow up on a wounded buffalo that starts as a charge. In the video you posted the client fires no shots only the PH but you have no objection to that? In the case of a wounded buffalo it’s the PH’s responsibility to keep everyone safe. I think you and I are simply going to disagree.

 

[pilar]

A lot of very informative information on this thread.

A lot of information so far has been about first shot placement - shoulder shots. Now, where specifically on the shoulder for best chance to anchor the buffalo? I've been looking at photos of the anatomy of the buffalo. Should the first shot be a high shoulder blade shot where the shoulder blade is in front of the spine to try to break the shoulder blade and spine at the same time or shoot lower on the shoulder to try to hit the lungs?

https://www.africahunting.com/hunting/shot-placement/buffalo_shot_placement.jpg

Are the TBBC bullets strong enough to penetrate both the shoulder blade and spine with one shot or stick to AFrames and mono-metals for that?

IMO yes on TBBC and a couple other bullets like north fork, woodley , SAF , TSX
Punch them where people are recommending and cross the T on the shoulder or chest
Those ribs are whiskey barrel tough and basically overlap ( there’s a video floating around where a PH is trying to stab a knife through the rib cage and can’t to emphasize what you’re punching a bullet through to vitals)

 

[SStomcat]

The client fired the first shot long before that 30 second clip occurred. That’s a follow up on a wounded buffalo that starts as a charge. In the video you posted the client fires no shots only the PH but you have no objection to that? In the case of a wounded buffalo it’s the PH’s responsibility to keep everyone safe. I think you and I are simply going to disagree.

Watch my clip again before wrongly commenting the client fires first before the PH at the .05 mark

 

[375Fox]

Watch my clip again before wrongly commenting the client fires first before the PH at the .05 mark

I watched it again and you are right. I have absolutely no idea the point you are trying to make now though. The client got a first shot while another member of the hunting party is being thrown by a buffalo. That’s a situation I’d prefer to avoid. Once I’ve fired I have no problem if a PH decides he needs to shoot as well. You can use a drone if you’d like. I think you are just trying to argue now.

 

[SStomcat]

Once I’ve fired I have no problem if a PH decides he needs to shoot as well.

There you go.. in this particular situation the PH is firing first doesn’t matter what may happened before.

 

[DLSJR]

Wow! What a horrible tragedy. This is scary for many reasons.

This story has me really thinking. For a Cape Buffalo to kill an experienced PH shows how dangerous and intelligent they are. In the story above it almost alludes to the buffalo sort of ambushing them in a flanking maneuver while it was lying in wait. Which shows a certain level of intelligence. Also, the tracker not shooting the buffalo before or after it gored the PH which makes me question how confident I could be in trusting a tracker to save my life if I was gored or trampled.

I'm obviously not an expert and I don't like to second guess but I think two different types of firearms are needed - one is a hunting rifle for distance shooting and once the buffalo is wounded it now becomes a defensive situation and for that situation a different weapon is needed - a CQB short-barreled weapon in semi-auto for quick maneuverability say a AR15 chambered in 458 socom or a double action revolver S&W 500 attached to a lanyard. I wouldn't want to track a wounded buffalo with a long heavy bolt-action rifle with a 24" to 30" inch barrel. Bolt-action rifles are not defensive weapons in tight close encounters where speed is needed.

I personally would want the trackers being equipped with defensive weapons even AK's in 308 with a 30 round magazine and unload on the buffalo.

Also, wearing a bullet proof vest to prevent being gored ?

You’re joking, right? Please tell us you’re not serious.

Not everyone is cut out for dangerous game hunting. If you’re that concerned, perhaps you’d be well advised to stick to game that won’t kill you. No disrespect intended, it’s just not for everyone.

 

[375Fox]

There you go.. in this particular situation the PH is firing first doesn’t matter what may happened before.

It doesn’t matter if client fired first shot and wounded buffalo before? Both those videos are follow up on wounded buffalo. The outcomes are just very different. The first shot was taken sometime before either video started. I really have no idea what you are arguing and I don’t think you do either. Use a drone on follow up if you’d like. I’ll hunt with experienced PHs.

 

[Alchemist]

Any comments on Rhino Solid Shank bullets ? Solid brass shank with a bonded lead front.
Thank you

 

[Alchemist]

These pictures were recovered from 2 buffalo that were taken with Rhinos. They were supplied to me from the manufacturer as examples.

 

[grand veneur]

There are far too many people to see on all of these videos. This can cause problems if something goes wrong. Two people should approach the buffalo and shoot it, the hunter and a PH, if available, or a guide, no more. The others stay back at a distance until the action is over, or begins again.

 

[pilar]

These pictures were recovered from 2 buffalo that were taken with Rhinos. They were supplied to me from the manufacturer as examples.

View attachment 654164View attachment 654165View attachment 654166View attachment 654167

I was trying to get them shipped to the USA but rhino said no or couldn’t

 

[mark-hunter]

There are far too many people to see on all of these videos. This can cause problems if something goes wrong. Two people should approach the buffalo and shoot it, the hunter and a PH, if available, or a guide, no more. The others stay back at a distance until the action is over, or begins again.

It works for first attempt.
Then for tracking, at least you need trackers.
Then in some countries you need escort by game rangers. And again you have full crew complement.
The only extra person could by a hunters wife, if joining as observers.

 

[grand veneur]

It works for first attempt.
Then for tracking, at least you need trackers.
Then in some countries you need escort by game rangers. And again you have full crew complement.
The only extra person could by a hunters wife, if joining as observers.

I have hunted in various African countries and sometime had many people with me, but in the last phase in the majority of cases they stayed at distance. It is enough if there are two for discuss the procedure, regardless of whether it is a PH or an unarmed local guide. Additional comments and excitement in the background can be detrimental to the course of the hunt.

 

[Altitude sickness]

I’m not sure where you think a charge from 30 yards is normal? A charge itself isn’t normal, but the chances will increase the tighter quarters it gets. There are lots of buffalo charge YouTube videos available of different circumstances. If you are using that video as an example to justify using a drone I won’t understand your reasoning. They knew the buffalo was coming and the dogs very possibly instigated the charge. Some mistakes were made but it made a cool video especially since no one was seriously hurt in end. Choose who you hunt dangerous game with carefully. Lots of PH can legally take you DG hunting but not all actually have the experience or have proper trackers. If the first response to a wounded buffalo is getting the drone I’d have some concerns.

Here is a counter example (not my video). Note the role quality trackers play in reading the situation before it occurs. No dogs or drones.

The PH fires the first and third shot, possibly killing it, I’d prefer the PH wait for me to take the first shot before firing.

I remember watching this show. It was Buzz and a European client that wanted to use his DR with iron sights. The first shot was in the guts. If I remember correctly tight dark vegetation. They tracked the bull all day jumping it several times. In very thick Jess.

After they finished the bull off in this short clip. The client joyfully says. That was fun let’s do it again. Buzz has a look on his face like He wasn’t happy. But of course stayed professional and polite. Pick a bullet but more importantly, make sure you can put it in the vitals UNDER PRESSURE.

 

[sgt_zim]

A lot of very informative information on this thread.

A lot of information so far has been about first shot placement - shoulder shots. Now, where specifically on the shoulder for best chance to anchor the buffalo? I've been looking at photos of the anatomy of the buffalo. Should the first shot be a high shoulder blade shot where the shoulder blade is in front of the spine to try to break the shoulder blade and spine at the same time or shoot lower on the shoulder to try to hit the lungs?

https://www.africahunting.com/hunting/shot-placement/buffalo_shot_placement.jpg

Are the TBBC bullets strong enough to penetrate both the shoulder blade and spine with one shot or stick to AFrames and mono-metals for that?

I only have 1 buff under my belt, so I only know of TBBC by reputation - they work as well as any other bonded premium like A-Frame and North Fork. I've heard/read that that's all some buff hunters will use. They work

I shot mine (a cow) this past August with a 9.3x62 (slightly less potent than 375H&H) firing 286 gr Swift A Frame at just under 2500 fps. 1 shot is all it took. She ran away, as most buff do, perhaps 50 yards, crashed, gave her death bellow, and that was that. I had a perfect broadside as I began to squeeze the trigger, but she turned at the last second and I ended up with a raking shot on her left side - the worst shot angle on a buff. That bullet penetrated between 3 and 4 feet.

A bullet with controlled expansion - where expansion ceases somewhere around mid-shank even though the bullet is still penetrating; or a copper bullet like TSX, though with TSX, expansion ceases near the top of the shank. Some expansion is good as it creates a wider permanent wound channel than a solid. Too much expansion is less desirable because the wider it gets, the more it inhibits penetration. Every bullet we've all talked about here will do the trick, and the easiest 375 H&H ammo to find in the US will be topped with TSX, A Frame, or TBBC. You can't do better than those.

Get a copy of Kevin Robertson's "Perfect Shot" or "Perfect Shot 2" - the graphic above was copied from the latter, but Jerome (@AfricaHunting.com) has a whole section on this website dedicated to shot placement, illustrations included.

 

[Altitude sickness]

This drawing shows the proper angle of the heart. The plumbing comes out towards the neck. More importantly the Sinus Node is nestled in the junction Aorta, Vena Cava.

Shoot straight up the leg of most NA and African animals. Not behind it. A hair forward destroys the leg. A hair high is spine. Many shoot way too high on ungulates.

The top of the heart is almost instant death. A hole through the lower heart is a 100 yard proposition.

The blue circle is a good aim point

 

[grand veneur]

You are absolutely right, top of the heart shot is in almost cases instant death. However, in my opinion the majority of buffaloes are killed by heart or even more by a double lung shot. In case of doubt, especially if the visibility is not so good, it is always better to shoot a little higher than to take the risk of shooting through the frontal leg.