mono vs lead for Cape Buffalo?

[Pondoro]

This drawing shows the proper angle of the heart. The plumbing comes out towards the neck. More importantly the Sinus Node is nestled in the junction Aorta, Vena Cava.

Shoot straight up the leg of most NA and African animals. Not behind it. A hair forward destroys the leg. A hair high is spine. Many shoot way too high on ungulates.

The top of the heart is almost instant death. A hole through the lower heart is a 100 yard proposition.

The blue circle is a good aim point
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It is a lot about right bullet placement.. But that said..after hunting buffalo with my .470 double and watch its devastating effect on buff, I would not personally contemplate using a .375H&H. Period. Its not that the .375H&H do the job..but the extra safety margin is there big time..

Besides, at 62, I am getting too old to run..worn knees etc..

 

[grand veneur]

The caliber used must also be taken into account. A double lung shot with a 375 H&H Magnum cartridge is not comparable to a double lung shot with a 460 Weatherby Magnum cartridge, assuming the use of the same kind of bullet.

 

[Philip Glass]

While I agree with Philip Swift A Frames aren’t a bad second

Yes sir. That is a fact.

 

[pilar]

It is a lot about right bullet placement.. But that said..after hunting buffalo with my .470 double and watch its devastating effect on buff, I would not personally contemplate using a .375H&H. Period. Its not that the .375H&H do the job..but the extra safety margin is there big time..

Besides, at 62, I am getting too old to run..worn knees etc..

Yeah a nice 470 double is what my buddy John and his son use,
“ no replacement for displacement “ on the big stuff, but you still gotta hit ‘em in the zone with the right stuff ! Or pay the price of a long walk or something worse.

 

[375Ruger416]

It is a lot about right bullet placement.. But that said..after hunting buffalo with my .470 double and watch its devastating effect on buff, I would not personally contemplate using a .375H&H. Period. Its not that the .375H&H do the job..but the extra safety margin is there big time..

Besides, at 62, I am getting too old to run..worn knees etc..

From everything I’ve read from PH’s and experienced buffalo hunters, it all comes down to good initial shot placement with an adequate caliber. The biggest failure point is poor shot placement by the client which is more likely with a larger ccrtridge and an unfamiliar action.

No question, the 470 NE is a great DG cartridge, but to suggest you wouldn’t consider using a 375 H&H is likely saying you wouldn’t use a 30/06 for deer. In all likelihood, more buffalo have been taken with a 375 H&H or a 9.3x62 than any other cartridges.

 

[grand veneur]

#102

@375Ruger416

When you distribute dislike's, you should also post why !

...but I'm not offended, I am used to it when it comes to cartridges and bullets.

 

[pilar]

#102

@375Ruger416

When you distribute dislike's, you should also post why !

...but I'm not offended, I am used to it when it comes to cartridges and bullets.

Amen amigo!
Talking cartridges and bullets

“”it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair”

 

[375Ruger416]

The caliber used must also be taken into account. A double lung shot with a 375 H&H Magnum cartridge is not comparable to a double lung shot with a 460 Weatherby Magnum cartridge, assuming the use of the same kind of bullet.

Cartridge matters and I believe in using ‘enough gun’. However, there is a point of diminishing returns. Some cartridges, like the 404J, have a reputation for killing out of proportion with their recoil and cartridge size. IMO, the Weatherby DG cartridges have recoil out of proportion with their terminal effect.

As Kevin Robertson emphasizes in the Perfect Shot II, he has seen more game wounded or just cleanly missed with weatherby DG cartridges than any other. Their muzzle blast is increased, they need a 26” barrel to get optimum velocity, and high impact velocities increase the risk of bullet failure.

I’m a fan of the Weatherby cartridges, but once you get above the 300 Weatherby the benefit/cost ratio is much less favorable.

 

[One Day...]

#102

@375Ruger416

When you distribute dislike's, you should also post why !

...but I'm not offended, I am used to it when it comes to cartridges and bullets.

I am going to speculate grand veneur, that 375Ruger416's comment is just another case of .460 Wby copy / paste, read & repeat, dislike.......

The simplest way to test this hypothesis would be to change the statement with:

"A double lung shot with a 375 H&H Magnum cartridge is not comparable to a double lung shot with a .458 Lott cartridge, assuming the use of the same kind of bullet."​

​

With the "culturally correct" bad-mouthing of the Weatherby taken out of the mix, I just can't wait to hear someone argue that a double lung shot with a 375 H&H is more effective than a double lung shot with a .458 Lott, assuming the use of the same kind of bullet


And since we are at it, people actually in the know do not confuse the .378 Wby with the .460 Wby when it comes to Weatherby cartridges reputation in Africa. The bad reputation generally came from the .378 Wby due to its fearsome recoil (much faster and more brutal than the .460 Wby) and mostly from its unnecessary and actually counterproductive (in terms of bullets of those days performance) hyper velocity.

And it is factual that this bad reputation is justified, and was richly earned by a bunch of American hunters showing up in Africa with the fearsome .378 Wby (which HAD to be better than the .375 H&H, right!?!?!?), and scarring (and scaring ) themselves to death every time they pulled the trigger, hence leading to miss-the barn-from-the -inside deplorable accuracy (or lack thereof), hence lost game as we all agree that shot placement is indeed THE critical factor.

The .460 Wby is a well respected, extremely effective cartridge, actually favored by a number of PHs, and not all that fearsome to shoot from a reasonable weight rifle. It is interesting to note that the .450 Rigby, which is factually an unbelted .460 Wby*, is de facto a detuned .460 Wby (450 gr at 2,400 fps instead of 500 gr at 2,600 fps from a 24" barrel), and the .458 Lott rides in between them with 500 gr at 2,300 fps.

* Roy created his large case by belting the .416 Rigby (the parent case for the .450 Rigby), and for many years .460 Wby cases' belts were turned down by folks reloading the .416 Rigby.

Do not interpret the above as me advocating for the .460 Wby to be the best caliber for Africa, as its recoil is indeed above, and often considerably above, the threshold of most hunters, leading to poor shooting, but for those who can shoot it well, and there are a number of folks who can, the .460 Wby is indeed an awesome cartridge which has CONSIDERABLY more knockdown effect on Buffalo (and everything else) than the .375 H&H. Arguing against this would be silly

As for the many who cannot shoot the .460 Wby reliably, a .375 H&H is certainly a better choice, and for many of us, the .458 Lott seems a happy medium (not to mention the availability of ammo, and the ever present backup solution of being able to shoot common-as-African-dirt .458 Win

 

[grand veneur]

In fact, I just wanted to write that there is a difference when using a cartridge like thew 375 H&H Magnum or a cartridge of the 45 caliber class. I had the cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum in front of my eyes because I shot several buffalo with it, but I could also have written when using the cartridge 458 Winchester Magnum, 458 Lott or 450 Rigby. Some people would maybe not have been upset. Luckily I did not write 500 Jeffery or 577 Nitro Express.