My calibers for hunting in Africa

[Red Leg]

Don't tell me in the new South Africa they forget the .30 calibers!?

Allow me to greet all my South African friends

?!? The regulation says .270 and 7 mm are minimum, 7.62 is above that - on any side of the Atlantic or equator.

 

[One Day...]

This is getting a bit surreal...

Dear new friend @308W, you asked for the Brotherhood's opinion, and you got it. You likely do not know very well the people who have been kind enough to expend their time responding to you and sharing their hard-earned experience, and maybe a bit of wisdom too, but looking at the posters' names, I would say you probably have a few hundred years and a few thousand animals of cumulative experience represented here... It may be wiser to listen and learn, than to argue...

Yes, we know the .308 Win, and most of us actually respect it for what it is, a medium caliber of medium power at medium range for medium size animals, and yes, most of us have shot it (a lot), and most of us own one (or more) such rifle.

Here is mine, a Steyr Mannlicher SSG 69 with a 12x Schmidt & Bender scope, which is probably the ultimate cross-over between a hunting rifle and a genuine high precision rifle. You will not get much more portable hunting accuracy than this in a .308 Win. This gun actually rings 12" steel plate at 800 meters. Measured! Note the stock-attached ballistic table ;-)

You asked (challenged us rather cavalierly) whether we actually know the .308 Win? Well, let me ask you: do you know how much a 173 gr .308 Win bullet that leaves a 26" barrel at 2,625 fps (M118 US military match Special Ball load) and is sighted at 100 meters, do you know how much it drops at 500 meters? Care to guess? Let me help: that bullet will drop 73.5 inches (186 cm, 6 feet and 1.5") at 500 meters. It will fly at only 1,867 fps and will carry only 1,338 ft/lbs of energy. Oh, and by the way, if there is only a 10 mph cross breeze, it will fly 20" off target. Yes, we know the .308 Win.

Most reasonable folks will tell you, and many just told you in these pages over the last few days in so many words, that 6 feet of drop is a lot to deal with, without a bench and/or a spotter; that 1,800 fps is not enough speed for most big game bullets to reliably expand; that 1,300 ft/lbs of energy is about the minimum required for no more than 300 lbs animal; and that 20"of drift in a mild breeze is not inconsequential. Yes, we know the .308 Win. Oh, and of course, there is this assumption that the shooter can actually land that bullet - not one time by sheer luck - but EVERY time in a 8" vital area from field positions...

That guy who shot an elk at (assumedly?) 875 yd (exactly 800 meters) with his .308 Win is not an role model, he is a lucky idiot. Do you know the factual parameters for an 875 yd .308 Win 173 gr load shot? Let me help, here they are: 250.8" of drop (yes, you read right: 250.8" !!! That is 21 feet, 7 meters, 8 milrads, 27.5 MOA, 80 clicks on the S&B scope !!!); 57 " of 10 mph wind drift (almost 5 feet); 1,488 fps velocity - his bullet is but a solid at that speed; and 850 ft/lbs of energy - barely enough for a Coues deer, or in Europe a Roebuck. And you are apparently considering doing this with 600 lbs kudu, wildebeest, hartebeest, etc. never mind eland! You must be joking right?

Safe travels and good hunting dear @308W, we wish you the best, and being of generally friendly nature we respect your choices, but you are pushing it a bit too far attempting to convince us of their wisdom

 

[Von S.]

I have actually. I have owned two in the past. The first was a Savage 11 and the second was a Ruger M77 Scout rifle. On Anticosti Island, Quebec, I killed a large bodied whitetail at 220 yards with one. Complete pass through on a quartering shot. I would say, with good premium bullets on a 200kg animal, an ETHICAL shot would be inside 300-350 yards maximum. A .308 will surely KILL the animal further out than that, but for me, I would want to make sure my bullet expanded reliably and hit where I wanted it to without having to worry that the wind 400 yards out is going a different direction than the wind where I am sitting.

As hunters we are not just looking to KILL an animal. We are looking to kill it quickly and humanely.

Not to mention that ballistics mathematics is dynamic, not just a static set of numbers. To land a bullet in a kill zone inside 300 yards is challenging from field positions but doable. To do it with a .308, which has a trajectory like a catapult beyond 400 yards is, even more challenging. In my opinion however, a person has accomplished nothing but a simple technical feat when they make hits on animals at super long range. Its something I actually find distasteful when someone starts bragging about all the animals they have killed beyond 500 yards and I have my doubts about how many "800 yard shots" are actually 800 yards or more like 450. Basically, when they start bragging about long range hunting (which is an oxymoron by the way), what I hear is "I am very bad at hunting". Every once in a while, a shot at 500 yards or or further presents itself and that is where having the maturity to pass on it is a good thing. Now this is all my opinion and I know there are people on here that will disagree with me, but I also know there are a lot of people on here that think the same way. If you can't get close, work on stalking skills until you can.

a .308 drops below 2,000 fps between 275 and 350 yards depending on your load. THAT is the maximum range for me. I don't care if I could make a hit at 400 yards or not. The bullet won't do what it was engineered to do reliably, so I will not take a shot like that and risk wounding an animal. Its depressing for me and I am sure it is more depressing for your guide.

Chris,

After 200 yards I use a rangefinder. I have asked friends of mine to tell me hope far it's between telephone poles and some of the answers are absolutely mystifying. One said 500 yards and another said 100 feet. Oh my!

Life is funny.

 

[308W]

Read again, those are the minimum calibers. The 30 calibers fall in group(c)..

?!? The regulation says .270 and 7 mm are minimum, 7.62 is above that - on any side of the Atlantic or equator.

Ok, not easy for me to understand this law... is it mean we can hunt an eland with 30AAC Blackout?

Happy to see 22lr and 223 can be used

 

[WAB]

If I were you I would add a controlled round feed bolt action in .375 to the arsenal. Equip it with iron sights you are comfortable with and a quality 1-6x or 1-8x scope in quick detachable mounts. That and the .308 will do anything you want to do. If you get a bad case of elephant or buffalo itis you can add a larger caliber later if you feel the need.

 

[ChrisG]

Chris,

After 200 yards I use a rangefinder. I have asked friends of mine to tell me hope far it's between telephone poles and some of the answers are absolutely mystifying. One said 500 yards and another said 100 feet. Oh my!

Life is funny.

When I shot that deer on Anticosti, (I don't know if you've ever been there) I thought he was 90 yards away. The camp was at Martin Le Mer (I think thats how its spelled) on the south side of the island. All the ranges I guessed were wrong because the topography made it very deceptive. No one had a rangefinder with us unfortunately. One of the guys in the group killed a 275lb 12 point from 340 yards with a .243 because he though it was 200 yards and then aimed at the top of his spine. I knew enough to give my deer a little drop in case my guess was wrong. It turns out I needed it as I was sighted in for 100 yards. I aimed for his shoulder blade, broke his front leg down low, passed through the heart and out the last rib of the ribcage on the opposite side.

 

[308W]

If I were you I would add a controlled round feed bolt action in .375 to the arsenal. Equip it with iron sights you are comfortable with and a quality 1-6x or 1-8x scope in quick detachable mounts. That and the .308 will do anything you want to do. If you get a bad case of elephant or buffalo itis you can add a larger caliber later if you feel the need.

Thank you WAB, it's an interesting suggestion needs a new thread...

 

[IvW]

Ok, not easy for me to understand this law... is it mean we can hunt an eland with 30AAC Blackout?

Happy to see 22lr and 223 can be used

I am not entirely sure you are actually asking for advise.

If anybody wish to be so stupid to want to shoot eland with a necked up 223 shell to .308 loaded with the following ballistics, they can surely go ahead.

Ballistic performance
Bullet mass/type Velocity Energy
125 gr (8 g) OTM 2,215 ft/s (675 m/s) 1,360 ft⋅lbf (1,840 J)
220 gr (14 g) OTM 1,010 ft/s (310 m/s) 498 ft⋅lbf (675 J)
78 gr (5 g) Lehigh Defense CQ 2,800 ft/s (850 m/s) 1,358 ft⋅lbf (1,841 J)
90 gr (6 g) Barnes OTFB 2,550 ft/s (780 m/s) 1,300 ft⋅lbf (1,800 J)
110 gr (7 g) Hornady Black V-MAX 2,375 ft/s (724 m/s) 1,377 ft⋅lbf (1,867 J)
Test barrel length: 16 in

The minimum caliber list relates to "normal" hunting calibers or a newer design with similar ballistics and not some never heard of military cartridge. It is not only about caliber diameter.

A hunter with a little experience will at least have some knowledge of what caliber to use for what animals, especially when planning a trip to Africa.

If you do not have this knowledge or understanding of recommended calibers, read some more or google.

You should by now have the basics from this site.

308 Win is a great cartridge, you can use it with the correct bullet for most African PG(it is also legal caliber to do so in South Africa), it is however marginal for the larger African PG, it is not a 500 meter hunting cartridge for use on African PG.

Yip?

 

[EZRider]

T

Ok, not easy for me to understand this law... is it mean we can hunt an eland with 30AAC Blackout?

Happy to see 22lr and 223 can be used

The law says you may shoot an Eland with a 300 blackout. Common sense says you would be wasting money on an injured Eland.
22 lr may be used up to rock hyrax, have you seen one? It’s like a big bunny. Don’t shoot them, you will feel silly.
223 works on springbuck. If you come all the way here just for springbuck well, rather shoot a porker back home.
Your .308 will work well. It just will. The rest is just words. You don’t need to convince any of us about the .308, we all have one.

 

[One Day...]

I am not entirely sure you are actually asking for advise.

+1

 

[BeeMaa]

I am not entirely sure you are actually asking for advise.

He is not.
The Lord gave you two ears and one mouth so that you may listen twice as much as you speak.
Good luck 308W.
I'm done with this.

 

[mark-hunter]

I am not entirely sure you are actually asking for advise.

I have the same feeling!

 

[308W]

Hi One Day, first of all thank you for your answer

which I entirely suscribe to, please allow me to add a few thoughts:

You are welcome!

.308 Win is

(...)

So, bottom line, it is better to shoot well a .308 than to shoot poorly a .300 mag (Win, Wby, RUM, etc.). This consideration overrides everything else.

However...

I agree 100% with your bottom line, I know the caliber and my prefered guns, I will start with them snd then I will see.

As several already said "antelopes in Africa" is not a specific enough.

You are right, but in the first post I though this input was enough for the exlusions of big games.

With a 308 Win on big plains game, you are just inviting trouble. You may be lucky. But then you may not be.

Therefore...

Insted of big plain games i will start with the small PG.

It depends how well you tolerate recoil and what degree of specialization you want or do not want. Something that you will be able to use later on for buffalo?
(...)
but you are more man than I am.

I love recoil of my 22s
Now I don't think about buffalo, in future I don't know, when I will think about it, I will thinnk about appropriate caliber.

Yeah, some folks play sniper in Africa...

Do you think I look like it?
Not really but... attractive idea.

Unless money is plenty, a dedicated double for plains game is just not practical.

I've asked just for curiosity, I don think I will need it in my live

In summary, shoot your .308 Win if this is as much recoil as you can deal with, but shoot close (less than 200 yd) and shoot premium heavy slugs at the big antelopes.

I will do if I decide to shot big antilopes.

As a parting thought, I will share that my personal African battery is .257 Wby; .340 Wby; .416 Rigby; .470 NE.

I hope this helps...

Interesting battery and thank you for your suggestions.

 

[308W]

This is getting a bit surreal...

What balistic software do you use?

I have seen, in your battery mentioned before you forget your SSG 69 or did you buy it this evening?

 

[Von S.]

308,

So! Do you like " One Day"s African battle arsenal?

It's a spiffy one for sure and actually I wish he'd hurry up and get that 257 out and take out some trophies like he did with his 340. He puts on a right professional narrated picture show here afterwards.

He I would listen to if I were you. He is pretty innovative and uses his head for something more than a hat rack.

Actually! There's awhile lot of guys here with what I would term " technically correct" info that have practical knowledge and are giving you the straight skinny for a more civilized hunt.

I think that " One Day" and " Red Leg" might be two of the better shots here and whereas I don't believe they would start a long game gun battle with a fresh animal, I'm pretty sure that both would stoke a big fire under ones ass if it was wounded and heading towards the border at high speed.

A few guides in my lifetime have asked me out right if I could really shoot after seeing my iron and after answering in the affirmative the one said, " thank goodness cause that last crew that was here were horrible "and that by the end of the week his shoulder hurt as did his feet from running stuff down.

So are you good with the iron? Have you made above average long distance shots on deer sized game? And can you do it in all positions? Can you hit beer cans at 500 yards with a 308?

I am very serious about not having a professional hunter turned into a personal hitman by me because I could not do what is prudent as a man who shoots at animals instead of one who blows them out of their socks at his will.

So what's the skinny? Are you " da man"?

 

[One Day...]

What balistic software do you use?

In the battery mentioned before you forget your SSG 69

I use the Shooter app on iphone/ipad. It is useless without a chronograph (I use a Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph) and it is useless without an atmospheric weather meter - wind, pressure, altitude, temperature (I use a Kestrel 5000), and I only use them on steel, where missing by a few inches does not wound an animal and does not have ethical or financial consequences. It is still humbling, but that is good

For hunting, since I walk & stalk and do not shoot past 300 meters, I do not set up a bench-rest-like shooting position and click-in scope adjustments. I rely on the MPBR method and fast calibers with flat trajectories. It has worked quite well for me. With the .257 and .340 Wby, from 0 to 400 m, I just aim at the animal vital area (6" with .257 and 12" with .340) and focus on recoil control, breathing and trigger pull, i.e. accuracy. (Note: I will sight the .257 for a 4" vital area for the "Tiny Ten").

I did not forget the .308 in my African battery. I do not take it to Africa. For me, it is too big/too slow for small antelopes and too small/too slow for large ones, and I prefer to go with two rifles to have a backup anyway. The .257 and .340 Wby cover well the entire spectrum of non dangerous game (a good European pair could be 6,5x68 and 8x68). Up to 250 lbs with the .257 Wby (literally several dozens of antelope species), and anything above 300 lbs with the .340 Wby (a dozen or so species). Both give me the reach, the trajectory and the power to have a very, very comfortable safety margin out to 300 meters for a first shot, and up to 400 if there is the need for a follow up shot on a fleeing wounded animal. If I only took one rifle, it would be a .300 Wby with both 150 gr Partition for small animals (< 250 lbs) and 200 gr Partition for large animals (>300 lbs) - or maybe, like @Red Leg, a 180 gr Partition or TTSX single load - the Wby make them fly flat enough for the small stuff; or maybe a 165 gr TTSX single load if eland is not on the list, I am still unsure on this one. The .308 Win will work perfectly on anything up to 250 lbs / 300 yd and will start progressively loosing the safety margin as the animal size/weight and distance increase. Africa is too far and too expensive for me to compromise and bring along a less than ideal rifle/cartridge for the task.

Just my $0.02 ;-)

PS: by the way, if you look closely at that 875 yd .308 Win elk shot you posted, you will notice that the shooter does not hit where he aims (he calls a broadside shot and appears to hit high in the neck, one foot high and one foot left); that he is clearly astounded to actually hit/kill the elk (clearly an unexpected outcome); and that the bullet fails to expand (it apparently punches through like a solid, see the impact dust behind the elk). The fact that he is lucky enough to apparently hit the spine at the top of the neck is just that ... dumb luck. This is the type of shot that it is the job to attempt in military settings, and that it is unethical (in my personal view) to attempt in the hunting fields.

 

[308W]

I use the Shooter app on iphone/ipad. It is useless without

It works even without, it's enough to digit few information, it doesn't metter if they are tru or invented, it works.

I mean it is very easy to copy and past info from a balistic apps.

Just my € 0.04

 

[One Day...]

It works even without, it's enough to digit few information

Yes, but the info is useless if it is not grounded in actual velocity for the actual load and actual rifle, and in actual atmospherics for the actual shot.

it doesn't metter if they are tru or invented, it works. I mean it is very easy to copy and past info from a balistic apps.

Woah! I do not know if you actually mean to be insulting or if this is an unintended consequence of struggling with foreign vocabulary and syntax (!?!?), but if you think that what I do on this forum is "invent information" and "copy/paste" you are sadly mistaken...

'nough said LOL

 

[308W]

This is getting a bit surreal...

You asked (challenged us rather cavalierly) whether we actually know the .308 Win? Well, let me ask you: do you know how much a 173 gr .308 Win bullet that leaves a 26" barrel at 2,625 fps (M118 US military match Special Ball load) and is sighted at 100 meters, do you know how much it drops at 500 meters? Care to guess? Let me help: that bullet will drop 73.5 inches (186 cm, 6 feet and 1.5") at 500 meters. It will fly at only 1,867 fps and will carry only 1,338 ft/lbs of energy. Oh, and by the way, if there is only a 10 mph cross breeze, it will fly 20" off target. Yes, we know the .308 Win.

(...)

That guy who shot an elk at (assumedly?) 875 yd (exactly 800 meters) with his .308 Win is not an role model, he is a lucky idiot. Do you know the factual parameters for an 875 yd .308 Win 173 gr load shot? Let me help, here they are: 250.8" of drop (yes, you read right: 250.8" !!! That is 21 feet, 7 meters, 8 milrads, 27.5 MOA, 80 clicks on the S&B scope !!!); 57 " of 10 mph wind drift (almost 5 feet); 1,488 fps velocity - his bullet is but a solid at that speed; and 850 ft/lbs of energy - barely enough for a Coues deer, or in Europe a Roebuck. And you are apparently considering doing this with 600 lbs kudu, wildebeest, hartebeest, etc. never mind eland! You must be joking right?

Yes, but the info is useless if it is not grounded in actual velocity for the actual load and actual rifle, and in actual atmospherics for the actual shot.

Useless like all the dates you wrote, or copy & past, in the post quoted above.

if you think that what I do on this forum is "invent information" and "copy/paste" you are sadly mistaken...

To invent needs creativity, copy & past doesn't need it and it is much more easy.
Balistic dates is not easy to invent, it is much better digit something on a balistic software and copy/past the results.

Just my € 0.04 ;-)

 

[tarbe]

What an odd thread.