New Federal 7mm Backcountry “Ammunition Reinvented”

[Firebird]

Hearing protection yes but also recoil reduction, which is often the stronger selling point

 

[Puddle]

I suppose I'll see this new ammo make a first appearance this coming Spring at the mile-long range to ring steel waaay out there, probably from a 24-inch barrel.

Depending on the age of that action, I'll likely be at least two positions away from that shooter...

Oh, I forgot - one of the guys last night quipped "to promote that Backcountry ammo, Federal should offer a free Backcountry tourniquet!".

 

[Inkgardener]

Yeah we “need” this…

 

[BeeMaa]

Hearing protection yes but also recoil reduction, which is often the stronger selling point

Federal claims reduced recoil, but there will be ZERO evidence to prove it. With the same bullet weight, pushed at the same speed from a rifle weighing the same…will yield the same felt recoil.

Just because it’s a new cartridge doesn’t mean that they can magically bend the laws of physics.

 

[93marlin]

I'll stick with my 7x61 S&H

 

[CastShooter]

Federal claims reduced recoil, but there will be ZERO evidence to prove it. With the same bullet weight, pushed at the same speed from a rifle weighing the same…will yield the same felt recoil.

Just because it’s a new cartridge doesn’t mean that they can magically bend the laws of physics.

The evidence is physics. You also have to account for the powder charge as projectile weight. If shooting a 175 gr bullet at 3000 fps is the goal, doing so with less powder will decrease recoil.

7mm Rem Mag
175 gr bullet with 70 gr powder charge is a total projectile weight of 245 gr.

7 Backcountry
175 gr bullet with 50 gr powder charge is a total projectile weight of 225 gr.

Nobody would argue that a 180 gr load in a 30-06 at 2800 fps would recoil less than a 150 gr load at the same velocity. So yes, it is verifiable, but, I'm not going to say it's a game changer either. All this said, I'm not buying one.

 

[CastShooter]

I'm more concerned with reloaders trying to push the envelope of pressure with this cartridge. I've seen more than one guy run a brass case to 70k psi. What happens when this case gets ran up to 90k psi?

I know we're living on the edge of modern cartridge development here, this will be the future, but I wonder how the reduced safety cushion of the action is going to handle this. I know the Rem 700 and Savage 110 are capable of holding 100k psi reliably, but how far until they just fail?

 

[Doug Hamilton]

40 years ago - 7mm-08 is quite popular.

Really? I have a 7-08 and like it, but I don't know anyone else that has one. Few stores carry much in ammo for it, if they have any at all. If I didn't reload I probably wouldn't use the rifle at all. Few rifles are still available in 7-08 due to lack of demand. Okay, it has done better than the 7 Waters or the "short/fats" et al, but it isn't in there with the 7mm Rem Mag as far as being a commercially successful cartridge.

 

[B0MBOY]

Increased energy per volume/weight is continually going to be the future of the firearms world until we finally figure out laser guns.

I believe This 80k psi case technology will become the new standard. Much like we’ve advanced from black powder -> cordite -> nitrocellulose gunpowder.

I find it funny to see the silly hybrid case from sig being leap frogged and going straight to all steel case. The technology already exists I can’t imagine it’s that much different using halfway decent steel instead of cheap steel like tula and blazer have for years.

 

[sgt_zim]

Really? I have a 7-08 and like it, but I don't know anyone else that has one. Few stores carry much in ammo for it, if they have any at all. If I didn't reload I probably wouldn't use the rifle at all. Few rifles are still available in 7-08 due to lack of demand. Okay, it has done better than the 7 Waters or the "short/fats" et al, but it isn't in there with the 7mm Rem Mag as far as being a commercially successful cartridge.

Gunbroker has about 3500, with ~3400 of them new, rifles in 7mm-08 for sale right now; about 10k 308 win, and 1500 - 2000 each of 270 win and 30-06; and just under 1000 new for each of those.

Hard to suss anything out of that other than there are a lot of them out there. FWIW, I see 139 gr Hornady white tail in every store I go into that carries ammo.

It's a lot more popular than you realize.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

 

[503]

I'm so glad federal has time for BS like this when all the black cloud BB/7 12 gauge ammo is sold out everywhere during waterfowl season. If I ever meet the president of federal I will fight him in the street.

All the ammo companies are run by clowns. God gave us the 30-06 and they still continue to choose to sin. I'll never understand it. I guess I'm getting old.

Cheers

503

 

[RedTag]

The truths of cartridge design were realized a century ago. Pretty much everything since is simply increasing pressure, making it shorter, making it fatter, utilizing hybrid materials, etc. I don’t have a problem with new designs, provided that the manufacturers don’t neglect to support the cartridges that have been in use for decades and retain solid popularity. That simply hasn’t been the case in recent years. There is no good reason for me to discard my .300 H&H in favor a .300 PRC or .30 Nosler or (insert alphabet soup whatever) simply because that’s what the manufacturers choose to support this year. I won’t buy it. But thanks.

 

[BeeMaa]

I'm so glad federal has time for BS like this when all the black cloud BB/7 12 gauge ammo is sold out everywhere during waterfowl season. If I ever meet the president of federal I will fight him in the street.

All the ammo companies are run by clowns. God gave us the 30-06 and they still continue to choose to sin. I'll never understand it. I guess I'm getting old.

Cheers

503

I believe that Federal is coming out with a replacement for the Federal Black Cloud TSS load. I've been a big proponent of this particular load, but recently switched to Winchester Last Call TSS 18 with their 1 1/4 oz of #7 shot at 1500 fps due to a lack of availability of the Federal.

Last year at this time the Fed BC TSS was EVERYWHERE, now it can't be found. It's my opinion that they are letting all the old stock leave their shelves in preparation of a new release. However, if they try any of this high pressure crap with their shotgun loads...I'm out.

Apologies for the slight detour. Feel free to continue on about how awesome the 7BCT is going to be.

 

[Nevada Mike]

I've gone through a 7X61 S&H, a 7X57, a 7mm RM, and a 280AI. Still have the last two and don't think I need more. ALL of these cartridges did well for me.

I hope Federal is successful.

 

[BeeMaa]

The evidence is physics. You also have to account for the powder charge as projectile weight. If shooting a 175 gr bullet at 3000 fps is the goal, doing so with less powder will decrease recoil.

Your first sentence makes zero sense. It makes no difference in the powder charge if you get a 175 grain bullet to 3000 fps in the same weight rifle...felt recoil will be the same regardless of the cartridge.

Here is the equation to measure recoil energy provided the bullet is the same weight.
E=1/2 MV Squared

E = recoil energy
M = mass of the gun
V = velocity of the bullet

And the equation for recoil velocity.
V = - (m * v) / M

V = velocity of the rifle
m = mass of the bullet
v = velocity of the bullet
M = mass of the gun

There are no "F's" given for how it gets to the velocity, what powder charge was used, how long the barrel is. All other things being equal will result in EQUAL felt recoil. This is the law of conservation of energy. Until Federal Premium Ammo enters a black hole as a rifle is fired...you are stuck with us here on earth where all these laws apply.

7mm Rem Mag
175 gr bullet with 70 gr powder charge is a total projectile weight of 245 gr.

7 Backcountry
175 gr bullet with 50 gr powder charge is a total projectile weight of 225 gr.

I'm not sure what you are talking about when you refer to total projectile weight, but in order to propel a 175 grain 7mm bullet to 3000 fps there is no free lunch. Upping the pressure only makes it accelerate more quickly in the shorter barrel vs the longer barrel that achieves the same speed at a lower pressure.

If there is a measurable difference, I'd be absolutely astounded to find an animal who could tell the difference between a 175 grain bullet from a 7RM and a 175 grain bullet from a 7BCT. Although I wouldn't be surprised to find any number of YT gunwriters already proclaiming it.

Please feel free to report back with the findings of how much better this new cartridge is than current offerings that are already obsolete. Again, there is nothing new under the sun.

 

[Rafiki]

Federal claims reduced recoil, but there will be ZERO evidence to prove it. With the same bullet weight, pushed at the same speed from a rifle weighing the same…will yield the same felt recoil.

Just because it’s a new cartridge doesn’t mean that they can magically bend the laws of physics.

Recoil is not a function of the cartridge case it's a function of mass and velocity. Mass include the wieght of the rifle, projectile, and gases. The harder you push the mass the more recoil energy will be produced. I fail to see how the claim of a cartridge producing 80K of pressure to drive a bullet to extream velocities will actually REDUCE recoil all by itself. Now if the claim is that you get great results out of a 20" barrel with a frick'n can attached OK, but I suspect the recoil reduction is a function of the ugly, unwieldly can rather than some magic of the cartridge.

Personally I hat the crap.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Your first sentence makes zero sense. It makes no difference in the powder charge if you get a 175 grain bullet to 3000 fps in the same weight rifle...felt recoil will be the same regardless of the cartridge.

Here is the equation to measure recoil energy provided the bullet is the same weight.
E=1/2 MV Squared

E = recoil energy
M = mass of the gun
V = velocity of the bullet

And the equation for recoil velocity.
V = - (m * v) / M

V = velocity of the rifle
m = mass of the bullet
v = velocity of the bullet
M = mass of the gun

There are no "F's" given for how it gets to the velocity, what powder charge was used, how long the barrel is. All other things being equal will result in EQUAL felt recoil. This is the law of conservation of energy. Until Federal Premium Ammo enters a black hole as a rifle is fired...you are stuck with us here on earth where all these laws apply.


I'm not sure what you are talking about when you refer to total projectile weight, but in order to propel a 175 grain 7mm bullet to 3000 fps there is no free lunch. Upping the pressure only makes it accelerate more quickly in the shorter barrel vs the longer barrel that achieves the same speed at a lower pressure.

If there is a measurable difference, I'd be absolutely astounded to find an animal who could tell the difference between a 175 grain bullet from a 7RM and a 175 grain bullet from a 7BCT. Although I wouldn't be surprised to find any number of YT gunwriters already proclaiming it.

Please feel free to report back with the findings of how much better this new cartridge is than current offerings that are already obsolete. Again, there is nothing new under the sun.

Ron Spomer has been, loudly and often.

 

[meigsbucks]

Really? I have a 7-08 and like it, but I don't know anyone else that has one. Few stores carry much in ammo for it, if they have any at all. If I didn't reload I probably wouldn't use the rifle at all. Few rifles are still available in 7-08 due to lack of demand. Okay, it has done better than the 7 Waters or the "short/fats" et al, but it isn't in there with the 7mm Rem Mag as far as being a commercially successful cartridge.

I got one when it came out in 1980. My favorite deer round.

 

[CastShooter]

Your first sentence makes zero sense. It makes no difference in the powder charge if you get a 175 grain bullet to 3000 fps in the same weight rifle...felt recoil will be the same regardless of the cartridge.

Here is the equation to measure recoil energy provided the bullet is the same weight.
E=1/2 MV Squared

E = recoil energy
M = mass of the gun
V = velocity of the bullet

And the equation for recoil velocity.
V = - (m * v) / M

V = velocity of the rifle
m = mass of the bullet
v = velocity of the bullet
M = mass of the gun

There are no "F's" given for how it gets to the velocity, what powder charge was used, how long the barrel is. All other things being equal will result in EQUAL felt recoil. This is the law of conservation of energy. Until Federal Premium Ammo enters a black hole as a rifle is fired...you are stuck with us here on earth where all these laws apply.


I'm not sure what you are talking about when you refer to total projectile weight, but in order to propel a 175 grain 7mm bullet to 3000 fps there is no free lunch. Upping the pressure only makes it accelerate more quickly in the shorter barrel vs the longer barrel that achieves the same speed at a lower pressure.

If there is a measurable difference, I'd be absolutely astounded to find an animal who could tell the difference between a 175 grain bullet from a 7RM and a 175 grain bullet from a 7BCT. Although I wouldn't be surprised to find any number of YT gunwriters already proclaiming it.

Please feel free to report back with the findings of how much better this new cartridge is than current offerings that are already obsolete. Again, there is nothing new under the sun.

You have simply misunderstood what "m" means. In this equation "m" is the entire ejecta mass, which includes the bullet and powder charge.

If you run the equation all things being equal and include the powder charge as part of "m" you'll see the difference between a smaller charge doing the same work. It isn't much, but the answer to your question is "physics".