New to me 416 Taylor Improved

[CoElkHunter]

Yes u can see it's blown out. And thanks for the pics also. Helped me compare them a little more. When using the WM brass are u sizing up in steps or just all at once? I assume your starting with 338 WM brass? I have a die that came with rifle that has expander mandrels in .409, .410, and .416. I assume it was for previous owner to neck up brass. And that properly headstamped Taylor brass is pricey lol.

No , sorry. I’ve been using .458 WM brass and necking it down in the Taylor die. Only takes one pull with the press handle with the Taylor sizing die. But, as you can see, the brass does expand a little after being fired to conform to the Taylor case dimensions. I want to try .338WM brass and an OP here swears you can neck up to .416 from .338 without say an intermediate .375 die? We’ll see as I have a lot of .338 brass?
Also what is strange, is that I just looked at the fired case, and it is slightly shorter than the unfired resized case? Maybe no need to resize it other than the neck? Seat a bullet in it and if it chambers fine, no need to resize the entire case? Extend the life of the cases?

 

[Cleveland48]

Yes I'm working on getting sizing die set. Right now I have it backed out 1 1/2 turns, so it's only partially sizing the neck. That way when the bolt is hard to close I can slowly adjust die down until the bolt closing is easier. Then I should be sizing minimal and hopefully brass last a while. One it the picture might be one I had adjusted the die down over a sooted neck. If it is I went to far with it lol.

 

[RayAtkinson]

I cannot imagine blowing out a Chatfield Taylor, from the standpoint of design, its such as small amount of improvement, and just and added expense, but that's just from my point of view, to each his own on that....I might consider taking a turn on the barrel and rechamber to the original Chatfield Taylor...It sure is a nice well made gun however.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I cannot imagine blowing out a Chatfield Taylor, from the standpoint of design, its such as small amount of improvement, and just and added expense, but that's just from my point of view, to each his own on that....I might consider taking a turn on the barrel and rechamber to the original Chatfield Taylor...It sure is a nice well made gun however.

Yeah I wouldn’t do it either from scratch? But when you get the dies with the rifle? I would like to find the same deal in a .375-.338 or .375 Taylor chambered rifle? Just because?

 

[Cleveland48]

I cannot imagine blowing out a Chatfield Taylor, from the standpoint of design, its such as small amount of improvement, and just and added expense, but that's just from my point of view, to each his own on that....I might consider taking a turn on the barrel and rechamber to the original Chatfield Taylor...It sure is a nice well made gun however.

I would of preferred the original by far, but since it came with dies and everything I went ahead with the purchase. I'm not a huge fan of this fire forming by all means. Next time I'll be doing the cream of wheat method to cut down on the cost.

 

[Cleveland48]

Yeah I wouldn’t do it either from scratch? But when you get the dies with the rifle? I would like to find the same deal in a .375-.338 or .375 Taylor chambered rifle? Just because?

The dies being part of the sale was the only reason I bought it lol. If i was building one i would of just went with the original too haha. It doesnt seem to be a huge improvement over the original anyways, but i dont know how fast the original will shoot the 350's?

 

[CoElkHunter]

The dies being part of the sale was the only reason I bought it lol. If i was building one i would of just went with the original too haha. It doesnt seem to be a huge improvement over the original anyways, but i dont know how fast the original will shoot the 350's?

Yes, with AI and other wildcat cartridges, you could be looking $200-$300 more for the dies depending on the cartridge? I paid $160 for my Redding Taylor dies through Midway when they were on sale. They’re usually $200+.

 

[Cleveland48]

Yes, with AI and other wildcat cartridges, you could be looking $200-$300 more for the dies depending on the cartridge? I paid $160 for my Redding Taylor dies through Midway when they were on sale. They’re usually $200+.

Yep I never would of bought it If I had to buy the dies lol.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Well, if you ever get tired of it, let me know as I may be interested in it? Don’t really know why, except the AIs and other wildcats interest me?

The dies being part of the sale was the only reason I bought it lol. If i was building one i would of just went with the original too haha. It doesnt seem to be a huge improvement over the original anyways, but i dont know how fast the original will shoot the 350's?

Yeah, I don’t know with the 350s? I don’t have any yet. I’ve only loaded and shot some 400gr Barnes originals and then with 70gr of Re 15 for a moderate load. They shoot well though? As a side note, these Barnes bullets don’t have a cannelure, so I moderately tapered crimped them and have had no bullet movement in the cases under recoil?

 

[Cleveland48]

Well, if you ever get tired of it, let me know as I may be interested in it? Don’t really know why, except the AIs and other wildcats interest me?

Yeah, I don’t know with the 350s? I don’t have any yet. I’ve only loaded and shot some 400gr Barnes originals and then with 70gr of Re 15 for a moderate load. They shoot well though? As a side note, these Barnes bullets don’t have a cannelure, so I moderately tapered crimped them and have had no bullet movement in the cases under recoil?

Thanks I'll let you know if I ever change my mind. The Wildcats are interesting for sure.

 

[Laurie Colgrave]

Hello everyone, few weeks back I picked up a interarms mark X in this clambering. Also first time reloading for improved cartridge. I've yet to find the max charge yet, but rifle seems to be very promising. So far I've mainly used the speer 350 grain mag tip bullets, and norma 416 taylor brass. Using RL 15 I've worked up to 80.0 grains for 2,620 fps with zero pressure signs. Still maintains easy bolt lift, and no swipe on case head. Do believe I'm going to settle on 2600 fps though. The rifle came with leupold QR bases and a 1.5x4.5 nikon scope. Barrel is 25.5 inches long and has barrel band swivel. Pretty sure the bolt handle is custom, since it looks nothing like my other interarms bolts. Has nice set of single leaf Express sights. Also worked with some 400 DGX with IMR 4320 powder in quality cartridge 416 taylor brass. No issues hitting 2410 fps with no pressure signs. Gun seems to be plenty accurate and well put together. View attachment 352202View attachment 352203

Hi Cleveland 48
I think you will find more ofso called improved .416 Taylor's out there! I had mine built in 1992 on a Mark X (Zastava) action with 24" Douglas barrel by Ron Webb a well respected Aussie gunsmith. He cut me a .416T chamber & sent original Waters data with IMR 4320 to help me out, there was no mention of improved.....My cases look like yours with 32 degree shoulder & perform above published .416T loading data. I mostly use Woodleigh bullets, the 410gn SN 2400fps, 410gn FMJ same with 1.0 grain less H4895 (AR2206H) in Oz, neither are max in my gun. I previouly worked (1992) up to 2440fps with Hornady 400gn pills but Woodleighs are much better terminal performers! I like to hunt with 2360fps for the 410gn bullets for big ferals & buff over here! I am trialing some 450gn Woodleighs at 2250fps also. I have also achieved 2600fps with the Woodleigh 340gn bullet without reaching maximum & 2750fps with 300gn Barnes X. I too have a nifty straightened bolt handle like your pic!!

I will post a pic of my rifle when I get the time!!

 

[Laurie Colgrave]

My .416T has ERA adjustable rear sight & ERA ramp front sight. The bases are Talley & I use a 1-4x20 Leupold on top depending on my whim.... The stock is custom built, I replaced the original Ramline stock (was a .458W) which was solid but kept jamming my second finger due to not enough relief behind the trigger guard!!

 

[Cleveland48]

Hi Cleveland 48
I think you will find more ofso called improved .416 Taylor's out there! I had mine built in 1992 on a Mark X (Zastava) action with 24" Douglas barrel by Ron Webb a well respected Aussie gunsmith. He cut me a .416T chamber & sent original Waters data with IMR 4320 to help me out, there was no mention of improved.....My cases look like yours with 32 degree shoulder & perform above published .416T loading data. I mostly use Woodleigh bullets, the 410gn SN 2400fps, 410gn FMJ same with 1.0 grain less H4895 (AR2206H) in Oz, neither are max in my gun. I previouly worked (1992) up to 2440fps with Hornady 400gn pills but Woodleighs are much better terminal performers! I like to hunt with 2360fps for the 410gn bullets for big ferals & buff over here! I am trialing some 450gn Woodleighs at 2250fps also. I have also achieved 2600fps with the Woodleigh 340gn bullet without reaching maximum & 2750fps with 300gn Barnes X. I too have a nifty straightened bolt handle like your pic!!

I will post a pic of my rifle when I get the time!!

Thanks so much for the info Laurie ! I'd searched all over google for some info, but never found anything on the improved version. This rifle came with CH4D dies. I called them for some info, and hopefully a cartridge drawing. They said they started keeping the drawings in 1998. But they didnt have one for the improved version, so he said it was chambered most likely before 1998. And that's a great looking rifle also!

 

[Laurie Colgrave]

Thanks so much for the info Laurie ! I'd searched all over google for some info, but never found anything on the improved version. This rifle came with CH4D dies. I called them for some info, and hopefully a cartridge drawing. They said they started keeping the drawings in 1998. But they didnt have one for the improved version, so he said it was chambered most likely before 1998. And that's a great looking rifle also!

Sorry I can't be of more help! It sounds like the older reamers might have been set up with the shoulder at 32 degrees like in the pic below, that Norma case looks like it has a .416 Remington shoulder!! I had my dies custom made in Oz back in '92 but lost contact with the old smith. I only use Winchester .458 brass run through my neck sizer & fireformed using almost full power loads. I trim them to minimum length after first firing as a few end up with slightly uneven necks. I have plenty of cases fired 5 times but probably lose 2.0% each firing. Don't get caught up in the fireforming process mate just size & fire as the case headspaces on the belt. Some of my best bulls were decked using forming loads. My max H4895 load with 410gn Woodleigh is 74.0gns for 2410fps & I use 70.0 gns to form at about 2280-2300fps, these kill very well! I have lots of data with Varget & H4895, IMR4320 shows more pressure & less velocity than these two with the heavier pills! Good shooting mate!

 

[Cleveland48]

Sorry I can't be of more help! It sounds like the older reamers might have been set up with the shoulder at 32 degrees like in the pic below, that Norma case looks like it has a .416 Remington shoulder!! I had my dies custom made in Oz back in '92 but lost contact with the old smith. I only use Winchester .458 brass run through my neck sizer & fireformed using almost full power loads. I trim them to minimum length after first firing as a few end up with slightly uneven necks. I have plenty of cases fired 5 times but probably lose 2.0% each firing. Don't get caught up in the fireforming process mate just size & fire as the case headspaces on the belt. Some of my best bulls were decked using forming loads. My max H4895 load with 410gn Woodleigh is 74.0gns for 2410fps & I use 70.0 gns to form at about 2280-2300fps, these kill very well! I have lots of data with Varget & H4895, IMR4320 shows more pressure & less velocity than these two with the heavier pills! Good shooting mate!
View attachment 353511

I noticed something in the African dangerous game cartridges book by Pierre van der Walt. He said the original 416 Taylor had a 32 or 36 degree shoulder. Also said when A-Square standardized the cartridge they went with at 25 degree shoulder and more tapered behind the shoulder than the original. I believe the norma and quality cartridge brass is most likely the same as the A-square dimensions. I bet those woodleigh 410 grains are magic at that velocity. I figure anything that is 400 grains and over 2150 fps has killed alot of dangerous game through the years.

 

[Laurie Colgrave]

That

I noticed something in the African dangerous game cartridges book by Pierre van der Walt. He said the original 416 Taylor had a 32 or 36 degree shoulder. Also said when A-Square standardized the cartridge they went with at 25 degree shoulder and more tapered behind the shoulder than the original. I believe the norma and quality cartridge brass is most likely the same as the A-square dimensions. I bet those woodleigh 410 grains are magic at that velocity. I figure anything that is 400 grains and over 2150 fps has killed alot of dangerous game through the years.

That makes sense with A Square's involvement maybe around the early 2000's. I have formed up cases from .338W (I have one) & shortened .375 H&H they all work!

 

[RayAtkinson]

Having been a fan of the Chatfield Taylor for a number of years, then went to the 416 Rem only because it was a factory round, and ease of ammo in the far places...I loved the Taylors in 375 and 416 and even had one in 404...Im suspicious of the blown out version from the standpoint of improvement over the standard, that's gaining precious little powder capacity it seems to me, just how much more water will the imp case hold is my question..At any rate that's a nice looking rifle and you sure got a deal on it..What make is the stock btw?

 

[Cleveland48]

Having been a fan of the Chatfield Taylor for a number of years, then went to the 416 Rem only because it was a factory round, and ease of ammo in the far places...I loved the Taylors in 375 and 416 and even had one in 404...Im suspicious of the blown out version from the standpoint of improvement over the standard, that's gaining precious little powder capacity it seems to me, just how much more water will the imp case hold is my question..At any rate that's a nice looking rifle and you sure got a deal on it..What make is the stock btw?

Thanks Ray I wish it would of been the standard version, I just couldn't walk away from the price and everything included. I've had the action out twice and I have no idea about the stock manufacturer, and can find no markings on it. I do know it's not a plastic Tupperware stock. It's very stiff, and I can not get the forearm to flex regardless of how hard I try. It's a very solid stock for sure. I'm gonna try to get a water capacity for the two types of brass I have today, and I will report back to you.

 

[Cleveland48]

Having been a fan of the Chatfield Taylor for a number of years, then went to the 416 Rem only because it was a factory round, and ease of ammo in the far places...I loved the Taylors in 375 and 416 and even had one in 404...Im suspicious of the blown out version from the standpoint of improvement over the standard, that's gaining precious little powder capacity it seems to me, just how much more water will the imp case hold is my question..At any rate that's a nice looking rifle and you sure got a deal on it..What make is the stock btw?

Hey Ray, I have the water capacity numbers for you. I agree with you that there is prolly not enough difference capacity wise between the improved and standard taylor. Do you happen to remember the capacity for the standard taylor brass?

Quality Cartridge brass = 90.6 gr
Norma Brass = 93.8 gr

 

[RayAtkinson]

I don't recall, but I would think you could turn off a thread or two and rechamber to the standard Taylor and that being a composite stock it would not interfere with the inletting. It would be well worth the trouble and small cost to do that and resale value would be considerably more, not that its a bad caliber, its just a better opition anyway you look at it...but then one could just punch it out to a .416 Rem, one of the best calibers Ive used short of the 404 but that has more to do with nostalgia..

.I never could understand why Win opted for the 458 Win, it should have been the 416 Taylor and the the 458 should have been on the 416 REm case, They got it all backasswords..Well at least in my opinion!

Another great caliber was the 375 C. Taylor, it was a great cartridge. Had Win. made the short calibers, those two I would have been shooting long ago..Neither had much recoil and the were ballistic twins to the H&H case..In fact they would do that today if they would wake up for once..