Non-American ammo manufacturers that produce big bore ammo?

[PerH]

RWS offers (or once offered) loaded ammunition for the 404 Jeffery (10.75 X 73) with 400 grain projectiles. I believe that DWM provide some big bore cartridges as well.

Rws had some .404 brass and ammo . Best brass I used when I had my .404 , DWM is closed for many years now sadly .

 

[BRICKBURN]

The next posts on POLITICS that show up here to pollute this thread will get a timeout.

 

[Northern Shooter]

Having now looked into all the brands mentioned here it looks like Norma is the only option for cartridges greater than 375HH in Canada.

Hopefully that supply never goes away.

 

[Aaron N]

Having now looked into all the brands mentioned here it looks like Norma is the only option for cartridges greater than 375HH in Canada.

Hopefully that supply never goes away.

Do you reload?

 

[Northern Shooter]

Do you reload?

I’m going to start now for my 470NE.

 

[Aaron N]

I’m going to start now for my 470NE.

I’m not sure how far north you are in Ontario, but you can bring $500 worth of components back across the border. I’ve had stuff shipped to my mailbox in Montana and the brought it home

 

[PeetMeech]

In France, we have 2 factories that load big bores.

The biggest one is Sologne.

Cartouches Sologne, pour le plus grand plaisir des chasseurs

Cartouches Sologne propose depuis plus de 15 ans des munitions de grande chasse rigoureusement précises et régulières fabriquées en France

www.cartouches-sologne.fr

https://www.cartouches-sologne.fr/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/tarif-public-GLOBAL-2024.pdf

Back to 90's, Sologne introduced the GPA, a lead free bullet with bands, that works like the Cuting Edge Bullet Raptor. They also produce a Round nose Solid up to 620".
In addition, they also load bullets from many companies like Nosler, Barnes, Hornady, Sierra, Woodleigh and Degol.
On their website, they produce ammunitions up to the .500 Jeffery and the .505 Gibbs, but on request, they can load bigger calibers. For example, Sologne was the factory that load the 700 Nitro express ammunitions for Verney-Carron.
But my only little complain I have is the French powder they use. I don't like it because it might have big variations from lot to lot. Normally, every batch should be tested in the Saint-Etienne Proof house but once, I had a surpressure with their ammunition that stuck the bolt of my Merkel RX Helix and I know several people who had the same issue.

The other factory is Sauvestre.

Balles Flèche SAUVESTRE pour fusil et carabine

www.sauvestre.com

They have an interesting lead free bullet. I have only used the EXR in .375 H&H magnum, loaded by myself, and it worked great.

Hello Kevin,

I was looking to purchase some french ammo for my 375HH; I was curious what did you use the sauvestre 375HH EXR on? You think it could be used on buffalo, or too light? The other catridge they have is heavier 274gr but not EXR (expansion retardée); not sure if any would be suitable for buffalo.

I spoke to Sologne, they advised that their GPA in 375hh (256gr) would only be suitable for broadside shots, recommending instead their 400gr 416 rigby gpa for buffalo...

 

[rdog]

Norma
Sologne
Labor Fur Ballistik
RWS (up to .375 and only soft points)
PPU (up to .375 but ammunition is extremely unreliable for dangerous game hunting)

Norma and Sologne use American bullets (Norma uses Barnes Banded Solids and Sologne uses a lot of Hornady & Sierra & Nosler bullets). So I think that these two companies might not be able to source bullets if there’s any sort of falling out with the US.

I find PPU ammo ok but their powders burn a little dirty & their brass is as good as most US manufactures. In Australia it sells for about 1/3 the price of US ammo, S& B now load 375 H&H.

 

[grand veneur]

...

I spoke to Sologne, they advised that their GPA in 375hh (256gr) would only be suitable for broadside shots, recommending instead their 400gr 416 rigby gpa for buffalo...

I have no personal experience with ammunition and bullets from Sologne or Sauvestre, but I can report on a buffalo that was shot in Burkina Faso with the cartridge 9,3x74R and a 238gr GPA bullet. I had expressed my concerns to the hunter about the matter before the hunt, but everything went well. The buffalo stood broadside and the shot placement was perfect. The buffalo fled hundreds of meters, but then went down and died. It is sure that this bullet is definitely not a bullet for hunting big game and I doubt that everything would always go so well.

 

[mark-hunter]

Sako discontinued it's big bore offerings did they not?

they listed 375 ammo only, last.
Just as they discontinued big bore rifle line, kept 375 HH, only in new Sako 90 rifle.

 

[mark-hunter]

This subject is interesting to me facing daily ammo shortages in gun shops for 375 HH, so I went from the beginning of thread, then quickly ran data through AI, to make research and double check. For some companies I never heard off. For some of the mentioned ones, I reasonably suspected they do not produce ammo 375 HH or bigger, and double checked.
Here is the summary of this subject till now. Results are disappointing.

Sax
Sologne, (not confirmed to produce)
Skadi, (not confirmed to produce)
Kynoch
Norma,
RWS,
Hirtenberger (not confirmed)
Sako (only 375 H&H)
Brenneke ( not confirmed )
Labor Fur Ballistik
RWS, up to .375 and only soft points
PPU. up to .375
Sellier & bellot up to 375

Conclusion:
All of them, producing ammo mostly not DG capable. With two exemptions, Norma and Kynoch.
The only reliable African cartridge producer with developed distribution in EU is Norma. Other factories who produce 375, are essentially plains game cartridges. It would be risky to use them in DG hunt, without any reference or reputation. I never heard of anybody hunting buffalo with RWS. Certainly is doable, but not the first choice for a dedicated, motivated and knowledgeable client.
Going to high value DG hunt, and taking unproven bullet would be extremely unwise.
Norma loaded swift a frame till recently, now they have some other options in their PH line.
I dont think this is accident. And they do have their PH line. (no other European company has "african ammo line")
Every company runs a market research, and probably Euroepans came to conclusion that there is no DG hunting market in Europe large enough to justify cartridge and bullet development for DG.
Competing on American market with Hornady or Federal and the likes, (including reloading community) is probably estimated as risky venture.
Norma went the way to load American bullets. I am happy with that. I wish more companies do the same. Kynoch probably targets elite clientele buying guns from London fine workshops.
Besides that, next disappointment is Sako , phasing out big bore rifles, and ammunition offers. All this being good for European hunters, not for safari clientele.

 

[grand veneur]

You forgot some.

#9

Sauvestre, Sologne, Labor für Ballistik,...and so one, they all produce cartridges for big game hunting.

 

[PerH]

Centerfire rifle cartridges | RWS Ammunition

The complete range of our RWS rifle cartridges – neatly arranged and compact. Find your product with just a few clicks!

rws-ammunition.com

Were supposed to be made in 400 grain also this one but that haven’t happened at this stage. Will it ever be so done , that’s the question

 

[mark-hunter]

Sauvestre, Sologne, Labor für Ballistik,...and so one, they all produce cartridges for big game hunting.

Checked them, couldnt find any recent offers.

 

[DieJager]

Sologne, (not confirmed to produce)
Skadi, (not confirmed to produce)

They both do. Just looked on their websites. As I did before posting them.

375 and up Skadi

 

[Kevin375]

Hello Kevin,

I was looking to purchase some french ammo for my 375HH; I was curious what did you use the sauvestre 375HH EXR on? You think it could be used on buffalo, or too light? The other catridge they have is heavier 274gr but not EXR (expansion retardée); not sure if any would be suitable for buffalo.

I spoke to Sologne, they advised that their GPA in 375hh (256gr) would only be suitable for broadside shots, recommending instead their 400gr 416 rigby gpa for buffalo...

Hello PeetMeech

I used them in 2017 and I shot several plains game with EXR bullets but not enough to have a strong opinion on them.
I didn't buy factory ammos, I just purchased bullets and I reloaded them. All the bullets went through animals, except one in an oryx with a quartering away shot, but the bullet was unfortunately not recovered. I wanted to try them on a giraffe but we didn't find it.

I was told this bullet was created for big games like buffalo and with its "delayed expansion" like the name says, it provides a double cavitation and a huge wound channel. Indeed, workers told me damages were very importants but once again, my experience is limited.

If you want to have more infos and you're one social media, you might contact Sable Safaris/JKO and especially Matthieu Mairesse. I know he has used Sauvestre bullets quite a lot on African games with his R93 and in the hands of his clients too.

I have never shot a GPA bullet so I can't really help. Some people love them and some others hate them. However, I have seen people using GPA in various calibers in europe, and also a little bit on plains game in africa and they worked. But once again, no experience on a tough animal like buffalo. Sologne also loads the Barnes TSX 300 gr and that is probably a better option for big buffalo.

 

[PeetMeech]

Hello PeetMeech

I used them in 2017 and I shot several plains game with EXR bullets but not enough to have a strong opinion on them.
I didn't buy factory ammos, I just purchased bullets and I reloaded them. All the bullets went through animals, except one in an oryx with a quartering away shot, but the bullet was unfortunately not recovered. I wanted to try them on a giraffe but we didn't find it.

I was told this bullet was created for big games like buffalo and with its "delayed expansion" like the name says, it provides a double cavitation and a huge wound channel. Indeed, workers told me damages were very importants but once again, my experience is limited.

If you want to have more infos and you're one social media, you might contact Sable Safaris/JKO and especially Matthieu Mairesse. I know he has used Sauvestre bullets quite a lot on African games with his R93 and in the hands of his clients too.
View attachment 668448

I have never shot a GPA bullet so I can't really help. Some people love them and some others hate them. However, I have seen people using GPA in various calibers in europe, and also a little bit on plains game in africa and they worked. But once again, no experience on a tough animal like buffalo. Sologne also loads the Barnes TSX 300 gr and that is probably a better option for big buffalo.

Hello Kevin,

Thank you for that detailed response. Indeed if I wanted to go with sologne then I would go for their Barnes Tsx 300.

I am curious about the sauvestre bullets though and will try to get some information from Mathieu Mairesse (thank you for that). If that bullet (exr or heavier normal one) is suitable in 375hh caliber for buffalo,
then I would like to use that.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

This subject is interesting to me facing daily ammo shortages in gun shops for 375 HH, so I went from the beginning of thread, then quickly ran data through AI, to make research and double check. For some companies I never heard off. For some of the mentioned ones, I reasonably suspected they do not produce ammo 375 HH or bigger, and double checked.
Here is the summary of this subject till now. Results are disappointing.

Sax
Sologne, (not confirmed to produce)
Skadi, (not confirmed to produce)
Kynoch
Norma,
RWS,
Hirtenberger (not confirmed)
Sako (only 375 H&H)
Brenneke ( not confirmed )
Labor Fur Ballistik
RWS, up to .375 and only soft points
PPU. up to .375
Sellier & bellot up to 375

Conclusion:
All of them, producing ammo mostly not DG capable. With two exemptions, Norma and Kynoch.
The only reliable African cartridge producer with developed distribution in EU is Norma. Other factories who produce 375, are essentially plains game cartridges. It would be risky to use them in DG hunt, without any reference or reputation. I never heard of anybody hunting buffalo with RWS. Certainly is doable, but not the first choice for a dedicated, motivated and knowledgeable client.
Going to high value DG hunt, and taking unproven bullet would be extremely unwise.
Norma loaded swift a frame till recently, now they have some other options in their PH line.
I dont think this is accident. And they do have their PH line. (no other European company has "african ammo line")
Every company runs a market research, and probably Euroepans came to conclusion that there is no DG hunting market in Europe large enough to justify cartridge and bullet development for DG.
Competing on American market with Hornady or Federal and the likes, (including reloading community) is probably estimated as risky venture.
Norma went the way to load American bullets. I am happy with that. I wish more companies do the same. Kynoch probably targets elite clientele buying guns from London fine workshops.
Besides that, next disappointment is Sako , phasing out big bore rifles, and ammunition offers. All this being good for European hunters, not for safari clientele.

For my Cape buffalo hunts during the 1970s, my preferred setup was (in a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum magazine rifle) an RWS 300Gr Kegelspitze Cone Point for the first shot & RWS 300Gr round nosed steel jacketed FMJ solids for the follow up shots.

The Kegelspitze worked wonders for broadside double lung shots (as long as you didn’t hit a heavy bone). If you hit a bone, the bullet would fragment to pieces. The solids were very good penetrators (I took the first of my two elephant bulls with them).

But RWS ammunition for this caliber used to have a very serious problem- They were loaded too hot. I recall one Parker Hale Mauser which simply would not permit the bolt to open after just two shots. @Pondoro had the exact same problem in a BRNO ZKK602.

Currently, RWS only offers the 300Gr Uni Classic factory load for the .375 Holland & Holland Magnum. By their own admission, it is not a bullet designed for African dangerous game.

 

[mark-hunter]

All in all, my dear @Hunter-Habib , we are left dry for DG ammo, by European factories.
This is my main motivation to recent start in reloading activity.