O/U v SxS

[Zambezi]

I don't mean to start the apocalypse but why is the SxS preferred over the O/U when it comes a DR? Is it purely the angle of break when you have to reload or is there more to it?

It would seem that regulating a SxS DR it's a bit of a pain in the butt. O/U seems so much easier.

I have never fired a SxS or O/U DR but to my inexperienced self it seems the O/U is better in terms of regulation and alignment when the chips are down.

Maybe its because the only O/U I have ever fired is my dad's O/U 12G Barretta circa 1976.

Is SxS nostalgia or is there a practical angle to this?

 

[Hunter-Habib]

If the Germans won the first world war and didn’t lose their African colonies, then over & under double rifles would have been more popular today than side by side double rifles.

After the first world war, double rifles became almost standardized as the way the British conceptualized them- Side by Sides. Before the first world war, over & under double rifles were widely used in the African colonies belonging to Germany.

The second world war was the final nail on the coffin for the popularity of the over & under double rifle (outside Continental Europe where they always remained popular).

During the first part of the 20th century, affluent American people (the kinds who could afford hunting excursions to Africa) loved taking inspiration from the British in terms of clothing, fine dining & weaponry. The British side by side just captured their imagination as the “Proper” configuration for a double rifle. Combine this with a touch & go sort of relationship with Germany (the side effects of 2 world wars), German technology didn’t really appeal to Americans for many years.

Australia (being a former British colony) also obviously observed a preference for side by side double rifles instead of over & under.

Interestingly, before the second world war… British gunmakers were also toying with the concept of over & under double rifles. Westley Richards was producing the “Ovundo” in calibers as large as .476 Nitro Express. Boss & Co. (the inventor of the British over & under double rifle) was producing their wares in calibers as large as .500 Nitro Express.

Over & under double rifles (and also combination guns) are extremely popular in Continental Europe for hunting roe deer over dogs or driven boar (usually in calibers such as 7x65mmR, 8x57mmJRS & 9.3x74mmR).

 

[Zambezi]

So is it just a "popularity" thing? I'm a fan of O/U but have no DR experience either way...

 

[Hunter-Habib]

So is it just a "popularity" thing? I'm a fan of O/U but have no DR experience either way...

In regards to practicality, a lot of operators (with more theoretical knowledge than field experience) will claim that the side by side is quicker to load than an over & under. But having used both platforms extensively over the years, I will say that this is not really true. It’s actually more of a matter of personal preference. I personally prefer the side by side, because I grew up hunting with side by side shotguns.


I will say this, however. A novice is more likely to be able to learn to be proficient quicker with an over & under than he is with a side by side, die to the single sighting plane.

In calibers larger than .500 Nitro Express (such as .577 or .600 Nitro Express), you really want to go the side by side route since it will be impractical to build an over & under in such a large caliber which the operator cannot properly grip.

 

[Zambezi]

I suppose I have this mental image of the most elegant gun I had ever seen at around 8 years old. Full ribbed O/U shotgun. I still love the image.

That being said, the sight plane you mentioned seems to be a factor with all rifles. Wouldn't it be easier and beneficial to have one line of sight so to speak.

As for the larger calibres, does it make a difference? I don't understand the grip thing...

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I do not own a double rifle. But I want to someday. Also, I want to own a SxS shotgun; one of those has been on my bucket list for a while.

There may be actual, cold-hard-fact reasons for one over the other. For me it's as simple as how it looks. One is a skinny, tall, fit blonde who looks like she should be playing volleyball on a beach. The other is a buxom BBW-type gal with long hair and plenty to hug on. Tall and skinny - O/U? A little bit wider - SxS? I'm going to choose the latter every single time, without fail. That's kinda how I feel about SxSs versus O/Us.

Note: I do not fault anyone for their own personal choices.

 

[Zambezi]

Beach volleyball for me

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I suppose I have this mental image of the most elegant gun I had ever seen at around 8 years old. Full ribbed O/U shotgun. I still love the image.

That being said, the sight plane you mentioned seems to be a factor with all rifles. Wouldn't it be easier and beneficial to have one line of sight so to speak.

As for the larger calibres, does it make a difference? I don't understand the grip thing...

In regards to your first question:
The entire aiming principle of a side by side is instinctive shooting. Snap it up to your shoulder, line up the front & back-sight and take a shot at moving game. The over & under is a more methodical tool, which is why it is the the universally recognized platform for competitive sporting clay shooting.

In regards to your second question:
Here are two .500 Nitro Express double rifles. One is a William Evans side by side. One is a Boss & Co. over & under.

Observe the fore ends.

Now, with calibers up to .500 Nitro Express, you can easily grip both very comfortably.

Imagine now, that instead of a .500 Nitro Express… you are seeing two .600 Nitro Express rifles. One in side by side format and one in over & under format. More material would be required in the over & under format and the average human hand would would have a more difficult time gripping the barrels properly.

 

[Sideshow]

If your talking shotguns then you will hit 30% more with an over & under.
Thats why you see them on clay shoots. The O&U will also recoil definitely than the S/b\S usually under barrel first which means the recoil is low down in the shoulder which means less muzzle jump. Easier to get back on target for that second shot.
The main thing for the shotgun regardless of barrel configuration is that it fits you. Thats why many left hand/eye shooters have such a hard time. Your standard factor shotgun off the shop floor will be cast for a right hander.
As for Double rifles. The only disadvantage when shooting that I could see is when reloading in a hurry. The S/b\S has to be faster for two reasons.
1 not opening the gun fully with the O&U and the bottom barrel won’t eject.
2 it needs to open further than a S/b\S
Not sure on the regulation of the barrels, why the O&U is easier to regulate.

 

[Black Fly]

I've owned both in 45 caliber and under, but in real big bores. I prefer the OU in a a shotgun and a BBF, and thought I would prefer the same in a rifle. I prefer SS in a rifle. I find I aim better with the OU with the single visible barrel. Second shots don't feel much different to me. But, reloading,at least for me and the particular guns I've owned, was slower and more difficult in OU's. I have been shooting a Superposed for more than 60 years as my principal bird gun and a BBF for much of my rifle hunting for a long time. Add to that a lot of field time with drillings. The need to get that action open further just made me fumble fingers. No good explanation why.
There are internal differences in the actions and stock designs. You do get a different feel because of the action depth. The OU's need to be deeper, but are usually thinner. My OU's usually had a foreend that you can hold, while my SS's were more of a splinter and harder for me to grip. Stock fit makes a big difference as well.
A person just needs to handle some. Just like finding your significant other, you know when it's in your arms, and both can be expensive
Bfly

 

[Black Fly]

Edit: but not in real big bores.
Bfly

 

[Red Leg]

If the Germans won the first world war and didn’t lose their African colonies, then over & under double rifles would have been more popular today than side by side double rifles.

After the first world war, double rifles became almost standardized as the way the British conceptualized them- Side by Sides. Before the first world war, over & under double rifles were widely used in the African colonies belonging to Germany.

The second world war was the final nail on the coffin for the popularity of the over & under double rifle (outside Continental Europe where they always remained popular).

During the first part of the 20th century, affluent American people (the kinds who could afford hunting excursions to Africa) loved taking inspiration from the British in terms of clothing, fine dining & weaponry. The British side by side just captured their imagination as the “Proper” configuration for a double rifle. Combine this with a touch & go sort of relationship with Germany (the side effects of 2 world wars), German technology didn’t really appeal to Americans for many years.

Australia (being a former British colony) also obviously observed a preference for side by side double rifles instead of over & under.

Interestingly, before the second world war… British gunmakers were also toying with the concept of over & under double rifles. Westley Richards was producing the “Ovundo” in calibers as large as .476 Nitro Express. Boss & Co. (the inventor of the British over & under double rifle) was producing their wares in calibers as large as .500 Nitro Express.

Over & under double rifles (and also combination guns) are extremely popular in Continental Europe for hunting roe deer over dogs or driven boar (usually in calibers such as 7x65mmR, 8x57mmJRS & 9.3x74mmR).

The exact historical point I have made here at least a half dozen times over the last decade. I will even argue the speed of reload is a total myth. I own and shoot SxS and OU shotguns and rifles regularly. I can actually load an OU slightly quicker than a SxS. Moreover, the typical modern non-bespoke rifle coming from even a quality manufacturer like Merkel is a pretty stiff opening new gun. Few quality OU's are.

Had Hemingway been met by a PH named Jurgen rather than Phillip in the 30's our whole perception of a "proper" double rifle and load would be completely different today.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I've never owned a SxS or O/U shotgun or rifle, but have shot a couple of O/U shotguns. I really liked them! I wouldn't mind a larger bore O/U rifle but I would have to shoot one first before I were to commit to buying one.

 

[mark-hunter]

I don't mean to start the apocalypse but why is the SxS preferred over the O/U when it comes a DR? Is it purely the angle of break when you have to reload or is there more to it?

Two types are from different origin, British imperial and German imperial culture and gun making tradition. Having said that, the rest is quite clear.

 

[Zambezi]

So the long and short of it is that there is little practical difference...

 

[mark-hunter]

If we speak of shotguns, which are used by pointing, not aiming at moving targets, then O/U has advantage, because of better field of view.

 

[Altitude sickness]

There is a practical difference. You can buy a quality preowned O/U at a fraction of the cost.

A beautiful Heym O/U just sold on here for 1/2 the cost of a similar SxS.

 

[BeeMaa]

I’ve used SxS shotguns several times but have never owned one. As for O/U’s…I’ve owned several but it’s purely because it’s what I prefer.

The slim forend on an O/U makes a huge difference to me in how it feels. SxS’s always felt too wide. My shooting has always been better with an O/U as well but there’s no telling how much of it is mental.

I suppose if I had grown up with nothing but SxS’s I’d have a preference for them instead of O/U’s.

In the end it’s what you prefer…unless you want to start talking about resale.

 

[Challer]

I have two Blaser BB/F, which is two trigger over under. The first, used, Luxus , cost me $3000, the second Luxus, $3500. But you’ll almost never find them in the US while common in continental Europe. You can still buy barrels and wait your two years. Still a catalog item but don’t expect to see one in a store. But in 9.3/9.3, 06/06, 12G/06 and 20G/Hornet, I can go anywhere. I just wish they’d make double shotgun barrels for it but they won’t.

With this kit I can go anywhere but often take the R8s just cuz I like them too.

Lots of 0/U doubles right now in the usual places. You could get a Superposed in 06/06 and the beretta 689 in numerous calibers. There are enough here in the US from US soldiers bringing them in to find something you like.

 

[PCC600]

I have both o/u and sxs shotguns . If I am shooting clays the o/u is my preferred gun . If shooting driven pheasants I use the sxs purely due to a more instinctive shooting style . For buffalo and running shots the big sxs doubles work well for me - just reactive shooting at relatively close range .