O/U v SxS

[HankBuck]

In actual hunting situations, in "walk-up" or "rough shooting", I 100% guarantee you that a competent SxS shooter on average will kill more birds than a competent O/U shooter.
How can I make such an outrageous claim with utter confidence? The guns are different and their differences have logical benefits.

Walking all day, the lightest gun is going to get to your face the fastest.

1.) On the average, SxS guns are a pound lighter than O/U guns. (taking in all types of each gun as a blended average)

2.) SxS guns are most frequently found as game guns, with ideal stock proportions to come up to the face swiftly for a shot. O/U guns are most frequently sold as clays guns or as "hybrid do-alls", the do-alls best exemplified by the Browning Superposed and Beretta 686 series.

You may hate hearing it if you're an O/U die-hard, but I assure you the best among you will get smoked by hunting companions with SxS guns of equal or lesser skill. After 1-2 hours of walking, an O/U owner is side carrying their heavy gun, or cradle carrying it, or has it over shoulder. Meanwhile, an average SxS shooter is still able to walk in ready position, ensuring a shot gets off 1-2 seconds faster, which makes all his shots 15-30 yards whereas the O/U guy is taking a shot at 35-50 yards.

Are there exceptions to this generalized truth? Sure there are. You can buy a woodward O/U, or a classic boss 20 bore O/U, and mop up birds with a spritely carrying O/U game gun, but O/U game guns are truly rare things. We have a few O/U game guns over here that are also exceptions, the old Orvis Uplander 20 bore guns built on 686 series Beretta actions with English straight grips are only 6lb guns, whereas the identical actioned Beretta branded 686 of today is nearly 7lbs.

ROOKHAWK, I like your confidence and assumptions but disagree that either gun has anything to do with the outcome in Hunting situations - it’s the Indian NOT the Arrow. I will concede that these days Most field hunters shoot either an OU or semi auto sooo when you see a guy with a SxS it’s likely because he shoots-it-well....I might bet on him because of that !

 

[rookhawk]

Bold statements and gross generalizations to be sure. I have shot game with some of the finest British game shots. Shooting instructors of the absolute highest pedigree. They are about evenly divided on which barrel configuration they feel is superior on game. Bottom line, shoot what you enjoy. I enjoy both and use both.

Competitors bias.

Of course the evenly divided (that's what I find with wingshootign as well) is because about 1/3rd of wingshooters are also heavily invested in live pigeon and FITASC sports. They are biased towards a similar configuration to that which they more often shoot competitively, and in earlier in the thread I explained why the edge for competitive FITASC and live pigeon lean to O/Us.

Of the thousands of pheasants I've shot in my life, both rough shooting and on driven birds, I've can't say I ever recall a O/U game gun of light dimensions being used by anyone. Meaning: Those shooting O/Us were shooting do-alls, some of them shooting 8.5lb perazzi target guns!

I'd love to see someone shooting one of these afield someday, but sveldt O/Us are a rare commodity.

Osprey Arms | James Woodward 20 ga. O/U

www.ospreyarms.com

 

[WAB]

Competitors bias.

Of course the evenly divided (that's what I find with wingshootign as well) is because about 1/3rd of wingshooters are also heavily invested in live pigeon and FITASC sports. They are biased towards a similar configuration to that which they more often shoot competitively, and in earlier in the thread I explained why the edge for competitive FITASC and live pigeon lean to O/Us.

Of the thousands of pheasants I've shot in my life, both rough shooting and on driven birds, I've can't say I ever recall a O/U game gun of light dimensions being used by anyone. Meaning: Those shooting O/Us were shooting do-alls, some of them shooting 8.5lb perazzi target guns!

I'd love to see someone shooting one of these afield someday, but sveldt O/Us are a rare commodity.

Osprey Arms | James Woodward 20 ga. O/U

www.ospreyarms.com

Perhaps, but the folks I’m referencing are not competitors, they are instructors with the top London houses and some of their clientele. I have seen the very best at work with a matched pair and loader on high birds. It’s a sight to behold. As I stated, they are about evenly divided, and I can assure you that the O/U’s are not what you term ‘do-all’s’.

Your observation is likely correct in my case. I shot nationally and internationally for a number of years. I can shoot credibly with a SxS, but not at their level. The difference is not so stark on something easy like skeet, but it really becomes apparent that I am not at their level with a SxS on truly high birds.

 

[Sideshow]

For those unfamiliar with Ruff Grouse found in the northern USA and southern Canada, they are:
1. So naturally camouflaged that one can step right next to where they sit on the forrest floor.
2. When one does step almost on top of a Ruff Grouse, suddenly and I mean suddenly they explode into the air rising seemingly straight up!
3. While the startled hunter is shouldering his gun, Sir Grouse has leveled off in flight at eye level to maybe 10 feet high. That should be great except in a half second or so, when he is but 10 yards distance from your muzzles, there are at least two trees acting as nature's armor between you and him.

Ruffed grouse - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I prefer a light 16 gauge AH Fox when in his domain. Relating this to double rifles, I have owned and shot Heym, Krieghoff, Merkel, Chaupis, and Blaser double rifles. The Krieghoff isn't bad, but my trusty Heym 458 and ugly Blazer 375 handle or have the easiest "movement of inertia" closest to a fine handling light SxS bird gun.

PS, I had a couple of English guns that handled even better than Miss Fox but I let them go to another caretaker. I do still have an early Henry Atkin eight pound 10 gauge that feels like magic in my hands. Henry isn't a grouse gun but he has downed a few pheasant.

Good shooting to all!

10 gauge on pheasant lol now that sounds like fun

 

[WAB]

10 gauge on pheasant lol now that sounds like fun

Well that’s a British 10. At 8 lbs it is likely proofed for loads less than what many are throwing out there with 12’s these days.

 

[fourfive8]

This thread started out as o/u vs sxs for rifles

Well for rifles? Neither. Double rifles seem heavy, muzzle heavy and clumsy to me. They almost have to be considering rifle barrels are heavier/thicker than shotgun barrels.

As to shotguns? I settled on 20 ga sxs shotguns for wing shooting a long time ago, even though I've owned and shot several high end o/u shotguns in the past... along with a variety of other single barrel action types in 20 and 12 ga. I quit waterfowl in about 1988. For specialty use like turkey, I have a beater single barrel, break action full choke 12 ga. After 64 years of bird hunting, beginning at 9 years of age, that's what I've settled on... a couple of 20 ga sxs and a break action single 12 ga. I've shot all the various clay bird games, just not my interest.

 

[Altitude sickness]

FourFive8

I have shotguns for pretty much everything, from deer to Rail

Like you, my favorite has become a 20 gauge SxS

I have a shortened O/U 12.

a 20” 12 SxS

but my favorite is a 20 gauge Fox B

SE-C the barrels cut to 21” choke tubes installed

When carrying a typical 28” barrel through sharptail grouse and woodcock habitat. In no time. I’m carrying it in a way to negotiate brush and not prepared for a shot.

This little bushwhacker at 6.6 pounds and great balance allows me to carry it properly for hours and be ready.

birds and cedar swamp rabbits think it’s ugly. Very ugly :>))

 

[Red Leg]

I know this will sound unreasonable to some based on some of the shortened guns posted here, but I do not shoot any SxS or OU with shorter than 28" tubes. I hunt a lot of quail, get back to South Louisiana every couple of years for woodcock in pretty dense hardwood, and up until 10 years ago, hunted ruffed grouse a couple of times a year. I have never ever felt the least handicap because of barrel length. In fact, two of my two favorite quail guns have 30" barrels. I am pretty good with them.

 

[Altitude sickness]

It’s a wonderful firearm world we live in. Open planted pine plantations, open range sage birds and dense grouse woodcock habitat.

Im sure I would not be invited to any proper gentlemen’s hunts with my ugly tools.

 

[Sideshow]

It’s a wonderful firearm world we live in. Open planted pine plantations, open range sage birds and dense grouse woodcock habitat.

Im sure I would not be invited to any proper gentlemen’s hunts with my ugly tools.



View attachment 571623

Don’t know it’s more about the guy behind the butt than the firearm itself.
Ive been lucky enough to be invited to some very nice English pheasant and partridge shoots as well as driven boar in France.
I’m fairly sure it’s not because of me guns.
@Red Leg I agree with you about your 28” commandments I’ve a Winchester pigeon grade that has skeet barrels that are 28” it’s dragged down some very high duck and pheasants, also lovely and fast to handle on wood pigeon and wood cock.
I redid the sock stripped off it’s factory varnish and red oiled it up after reshaping it getting rid of the clay pigeon pistol grip to a more prince of wales line. I’ll post some photos later.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Sideshow, I was trying to add some humor. My shooting would not get me an invite either :>))))

Im actually envious of those beautiful firearms at the gentlemen shoots. And love seeing them.

 

[BeeMaa]

Sideshow, I was trying to add some humor. My shooting would not get me an invite either :>))))

Im actually envious of those beautiful firearms at the gentlemen shoots. And love seeing them.

Kinda funny. When I first showed up at the skeet range with my camo SBE2 next to the shotguns of the old guard that are in the $15K and up range…I got some looks. The looks changed to smiles when I broke 20 and 19 shooting unmounted. Station 8 is my worst, LOL.

Looking good starts with performing well. Having a beautiful gun and not shooting it well is ugly to say the least.

 

[WAB]

I know this will sound unreasonable to some based on some of the shortened guns posted here, but I do not shoot any SxS or OU with shorter than 28" tubes. I hunt a lot of quail, get back to South Louisiana every couple of years for woodcock in pretty dense hardwood, and up until 10 years ago, hunted ruffed grouse a couple of times a year. I have never ever felt the least handicap because of barrel length. In fact, two of my two favorite quail guns have 30" barrels. I am pretty good with them.

I went through a short barrel phase many years ago. My grouse/woodcock gun in the late ‘80s was an ‘O’ frame Greener with 25” tubes. That was about the time I began shooting skeet competitively. In the early ‘90’s I began to take lessons from top English instructors and transitioned to more serious clays games. That is when I realized what a huge handicap short barrels are. The Thomas Bland I just purchased has 30” tubes and handles like a dream.

 

[Altitude sickness]

WAB, don’t ruin my excuse for needing another gun. “ That one is too short for this discipline.” “That one is too heavy and long for this discipline.”

When my wife sees another one coming in the house