One of the worst "examples of hunting" I have seen

[Outdoorbound]

I have been a bit hesitant to chime in on this post having been an individual that wrote a positive report based on my visit with Motshwere. A little worried I would get both barrels from everyone if I shared a story that differs from what everyone has watched. I want to start with stating that I do not support the behaviors of many of those in the videos and I agree that the videos do not represent the sport we all enjoy well at all. I do feel compelled to state that my experience was absolutely nothing like the ones in the videos. I was clear with my PH what I was expecting to experience and I felt they did all they could to accommodate my requests, as they did with others in our group. Many of my hunts consisted of hours on foot and were quite difficult (To the point that my wife was telling me it wasn't going to happen and we needed to give up) but again I was clear with what I was looking for in my hunt. Do outfitters change their ways based on clients requests, I cant speak to that but in my few trips over my outfitters have always hunted the way I chose to hunt. I was not able to harvest a few animals that I went over looking for so if their goal was to take money from me they failed because I would have gladly taken a few more animals had the opportunity presented itself. A question I have for many on here is what role does the client play in these situations? As many have stated, there are individuals that head to Africa with no other goal than to kill as many animals as possible. As a business owner, would you accommodate their requests? If a clients goal was to drive around all day, shoot as much as they could from the truck, would you accommodate or refuse to take their money? When you are in a customer service industry, where do you draw the line? Are hunting style, means and methods questions you are discussing when you book a new client, i have never been asked such questions. If a new client arrived and this behavior was their expectation, would you accommodate their request? I completely agree that several of the videos didn't need to be displayed publicly but also feel that some people what their 5 minutes of fame and they feel like this will help them accomplish that. We all see it in social media and YouTube, people wanting to be famous and making questionable decisions in the process. Motshwere treated me, my family and friends very well and went the extra mile to make our trip as memorable as possible. Although there was one other group in camp with us, it actually made for an enjoyable experience, it was nice to meet some new people and share stories. No I don't work for Motshwere nor have i been asked to share my experience, just had quite a few question that i was hoping some on here could answer in regards to best practices and behaviors in a customer service based industry.

 

[R.M.C.]

I have been a bit hesitant to chime in on this post having been an individual that wrote a positive report based on my visit with Motshwere. A little worried I would get both barrels from everyone if I shared a story that differs from what everyone has watched. I want to start with stating that I do not support the behaviors of many of those in the videos and I agree that the videos do not represent the sport we all enjoy well at all. I do feel compelled to state that my experience was absolutely nothing like the ones in the videos. I was clear with my PH what I was expecting to experience and I felt they did all they could to accommodate my requests, as they did with others in our group. Many of my hunts consisted of hours on foot and were quite difficult (To the point that my wife was telling me it wasn't going to happen and we needed to give up) but again I was clear with what I was looking for in my hunt. Do outfitters change their ways based on clients requests, I cant speak to that but in my few trips over my outfitters have always hunted the way I chose to hunt. I was not able to harvest a few animals that I went over looking for so if their goal was to take money from me they failed because I would have gladly taken a few more animals had the opportunity presented itself. A question I have for many on here is what role does the client play in these situations? As many have stated, there are individuals that head to Africa with no other goal than to kill as many animals as possible. As a business owner, would you accommodate their requests? If a clients goal was to drive around all day, shoot as much as they could from the truck, would you accommodate or refuse to take their money? When you are in a customer service industry, where do you draw the line? Are hunting style, means and methods questions you are discussing when you book a new client, i have never been asked such questions. If a new client arrived and this behavior was their expectation, would you accommodate their request? I completely agree that several of the videos didn't need to be displayed publicly but also feel that some people what their 5 minutes of fame and they feel like this will help them accomplish that. We all see it in social media and YouTube, people wanting to be famous and making questionable decisions in the process. Motshwere treated me, my family and friends very well and went the extra mile to make our trip as memorable as possible. Although there was one other group in camp with us, it actually made for an enjoyable experience, it was nice to meet some new people and share stories. No I don't work for Motshwere nor have i been asked to share my experience, just had quite a few question that i was hoping some on here could answer in regards to best practices and behaviors in a customer service based industry.

Thanks for chiming in. That's kinda what I thought was going on with the outfitter, if the client was paying and wanted a less than honorable hunt, the outfitter would provide it. Glad to hear you had a good hunt with them.

 

[WAB]

Very interesting thread. I have done a couple of ranch hunts as side trips on bush hunts for buffalo. It’s not really my thing but I have nothing against it.

I choose to hunt the wilderness and gravitate toward tracking hunts. However, I also grew up on a farm and spent much of my career in Ag. These ranch owners are Ag operators just like we are. They are raising game animals for profit just like we raise cattle. The video is in poor taste and not something I support or would participate in, but if you’ve ever taken your cattle to slaughter you’ve seen a lot worse.

I’ve actually been on a ranch in SA that was culling at night from the back of cruisers with spotlights. This was on the same ground hunted by paying sportsmen.

One final thought from my past. In high school my buddy raised bison for meat. One bull became very aggressive and almost got me in the pasture one day. That was it for my buddy. He decided to put the bull down. Being an entrepreneur, he put an ad in the local paper for a bison hunt. He and I put the bull in the back pasture and a ‘hunter’ from the city paid my buddy to shoot it. He even borrowed my buddy’s .300. There wasn’t a stick of cover in the pasture and the guy just leaned up against a fence post and shot it. All he kept was the head. Were we wrong to sell that ‘hunt’? Neither of us wanted to shoot that bull so it saved us having to do it. Was the hunter wrong to pay to shoot that bull? Either way the bull was going to die.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

@Outdoorbound ... Thank you for sharing that. And I am sincerely happy you had a good experience.

My own opinion is that yes, it takes two to dance. My guess is unscrupulous people with weapons have the money to push for what they want. Ultimately I hold the outfitters a bit more culpable. They have the ability to say "No, that's not ethical; I'm not going to do that. I am not going to provide that for you." And before anyone takes this down the road of questioning what's ethical, is there anyone here who is OK with what was on these videos?

And finally, with regards to this specific outfitter, clearly he is just fine with killing animals this way: he has these videos on his social media sites.

 

[Ravensview]

I have been a bit hesitant to chime in on this post having been an individual that wrote a positive report based on my visit with Motshwere. A little worried I would get both barrels from everyone if I shared a story that differs from what everyone has watched. I want to start with stating that I do not support the behaviors of many of those in the videos and I agree that the videos do not represent the sport we all enjoy well at all. I do feel compelled to state that my experience was absolutely nothing like the ones in the videos. I was clear with my PH what I was expecting to experience and I felt they did all they could to accommodate my requests, as they did with others in our group. Many of my hunts consisted of hours on foot and were quite difficult (To the point that my wife was telling me it wasn't going to happen and we needed to give up) but again I was clear with what I was looking for in my hunt. Do outfitters change their ways based on clients requests, I cant speak to that but in my few trips over my outfitters have always hunted the way I chose to hunt. I was not able to harvest a few animals that I went over looking for so if their goal was to take money from me they failed because I would have gladly taken a few more animals had the opportunity presented itself. A question I have for many on here is what role does the client play in these situations? As many have stated, there are individuals that head to Africa with no other goal than to kill as many animals as possible. As a business owner, would you accommodate their requests? If a clients goal was to drive around all day, shoot as much as they could from the truck, would you accommodate or refuse to take their money? When you are in a customer service industry, where do you draw the line? Are hunting style, means and methods questions you are discussing when you book a new client, i have never been asked such questions. If a new client arrived and this behavior was their expectation, would you accommodate their request? I completely agree that several of the videos didn't need to be displayed publicly but also feel that some people what their 5 minutes of fame and they feel like this will help them accomplish that. We all see it in social media and YouTube, people wanting to be famous and making questionable decisions in the process. Motshwere treated me, my family and friends very well and went the extra mile to make our trip as memorable as possible. Although there was one other group in camp with us, it actually made for an enjoyable experience, it was nice to meet some new people and share stories. No I don't work for Motshwere nor have i been asked to share my experience, just had quite a few question that i was hoping some on here could answer in regards to best practices and behaviors in a customer service based industry.

That might be the case, it still doesn’t make this type of behavior right, and that they were willing to do it doesn’t speak highly of their character or sportsmanship, i know for me at least they lost a potential client and if I hear there company name will always associate it with this behavior, doesn’t matter if the client wants it, as a PH they shouldn’t do it in my opinion, I find it totally repulsive and disrespectful of the animal, hunting and any ethics that a hunter and outfitter should have,

 

[BenKK]

Also, in regards to bow hunting if one has to finish the hunt with a rifle then is it really bow hunting or are people fooling themselves?

From experience, proper bowhunters do not claim anything where things went bad and a rifle was necessary to assist.

I love South Africa and the hunting I have experienced there has been quite difficult, which is perfect. Lots of top quality, highly ethical folks involved in conservation and hunting there.

 

[hoytcanon]

Oops....old thread

 

[Beck]

I watch a lot of Africa hunting videos on Youtube. I came across this one and honestly not sure if this outfit is a sponsor (I doubt it as I did see a few threads about problems around 2014) and don't know if these hunters are AH members. I'm not sure if they were unaware of how Africa hunts go and thought this was normal, or have been and don't care but this was everything that gives "hunting" a bad name IMO. I haven't watched all the videos from this outfit but there was at least another one that had a few more minor issues as I see it but nothing of this magnitude.

I'll let it speak for itself- maybe fast through the non-hunting stuff but have you to watch ALL the hunts.

Motshwere Safari

I can't get that video to pull up, but it sounds bad. The show "Getaway to Africa" recently aired a crocodile "hunt" which I found deplorable. I posted a link below, but if you can't get that to work it is the 6th episode of season four. I am shocked that MOTV would even air such garbage. People like this give hunting a terrible name.

Watch Getaway to Africa - Season 4 | Prime Video

The myth that an African hunting trip is just for the rich and famous, is busted in this series, where Francois Els and his team of talented professional hunting guides showcase what every day American hunters experience on an African hunting safari. Dozens of species the “Dark Continent” has to...

www.amazon.com

 

[spike.t]

I can't get that video to pull up, but it sounds bad. The show "Getaway to Africa" recently aired a crocodile "hunt" which I found deplorable. I posted a link below, but if you can't get that to work it is the 6th episode of season four. I am shocked that MOTV would even air such garbage. People like this give hunting a terrible name.

Watch Getaway to Africa - Season 4 | Prime Video

The myth that an African hunting trip is just for the rich and famous, is busted in this series, where Francois Els and his team of talented professional hunting guides showcase what every day American hunters experience on an African hunting safari. Dozens of species the “Dark Continent” has to...

www.amazon.com

It was 3 years ago....plenty of time for the company to remove it....

 

[BRICKBURN]

It was 3 years ago....plenty of time for the company to remove it....

Ultimately, the feedback must have motivated someone to remove the offending material. All the better to have the poor example removed from public view.
Mission accomplished.

 

[Beck]

It was 3 years ago....plenty of time for the company to remove it....

I actually sent an email to "MOTV" about the "Getaway to Africa" episode - they responded same day, and they are looking into it

 

[Hunt anything]

I actually sent an email to "MOTV" about the "Getaway to Africa" episode - they responded same day, and they are looking into it

In a thumbnail, what was the episode about?

 

[Beck]

In a thumbnail, what was the episode about?

A crocodile hunt in South Africa. In water appears to be a swimming pool sized pond. The Croc itself looks drugged, as the trackers actually grab the living croc by its tail at one point. They shoot the damn thing more than a half dozen times - finally finishing it off with with a .45 ACP. It's really disgusting.

 

[sureshot375]

In looking at their newer videos it appears as though they are still big fans of the diesel stalk.

 

[BGGMKLR]

I try desperately to avoid these discussions/debates like the plague.
That said, I'll break my cardinal rule here, as this is so despicable I'm willing to take the heat.
Some fellows, for reasons known best by them, have a burning desire to be "that guy". The biggest Buck...the most Ducks on a shoot...the largest trophy room... a bigger Bass... and on and on ad nauseum.
Money affords them the ability to achieve those bragging rights...regardless of their skillset.
Case in point.
When I was a Board Director for our local SCI chapter many moons ago, a group of
very well-heeled members put together a Whitetail "hunt" back east on a "ranch". I passed. Three of them went and in 5 days, took three Whitetails that scored between 270-300 points.
Sorry...I don't support or condone shopping for lifestock... and then claiming I went "hunting".
Spike

 

[mark-hunter]

If a clients goal was to drive around all day, shoot as much as they could from the truck, would you accommodate or refuse to take their money?

This happens and not only in Africa. It is the tact, whether we accept it or not.
This can bee seen as deterioration of hunting ethics, when money incentive is involved.

But money incentive works both ways: I know that in other type of local hunting arrangements in my vicinity where area belongs on the hunting club, it happens often that when game is wounded, it is not tracked, or sometimes not even reported.
In commercially oriented hunting areas this does not happen - game wounded is reported, tracked and if lost, paid for. This brings responsibility on the hunter behind the trigger. And this is exactly due to money incentive. That part enhances the hunting ethics.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

To the best of my knowledge my outfitter does not allow shooting from the vehicle. My PH told me he can tell in a day's hunting if a property has been allowing it. Everything for miles around runs at the sound of a vehicle. I do enjoy spotting animals from the truck because it allows me to see more country and more animals, not just the species I'm hunting. But stalking on foot is mandatory. A couple of animals I have shot leaning against the truck but either varmints or culling for meat and always lone animals (except warthog which were considered varmints on that property).

 

[DieJager]

I regularly shoot from a vehicle when I am doing roe deer management. But that is not the same for me as hunting. It is a good way to manage. But sometimes the lines get blurred and also on purpose. But never would I want this to be my hunt in another country. As a management practice no problem as something called hunting no.

If you're not able because of handicap or something similar I could see why you would choose this option. Otherwise no.

 

[mark-hunter]

Generally speaking shooting from vehicle has some similarities as shooting from blind, especially if done over a waterhole or a feeder.
I am not a fan of shooting from vehicle, and do not practice this. But if the point of hunting is clean ethical kill with proper bullet placement, then a rest from car offers better rest then - say - shooting standing from stick.
I prefer stalking and field positions for shooting. But I also do a resonable amount of training on the range in field positions, which many if not most of the hunters do not do (lets face it, avid hunters to train regularly is not common thing).
So, if somebody is a bad shot, and the outfitter tries to provide him shooting opportunity, under high success rate as advertised, I am certain that this happens more often then reported. But from that perspective I do not hold my attitude against this totally. It is better to hit it from the car, then wound it from the stick.

 

[Beck]

I don't have a problem with shooting an animal from the back of the truck if you've been tracking the animal on foot for days in fair chase or free range area, sometimes this is the only opportunity you'll get. I myself shot a buffalo on my last trip in this manner, but it was on the last afternoon of a 10 day hunt. We had taken two buffalo on foot earlier in the trip. What I do have a problem with is using the back of the truck as a method of hunting.