Opinions on VC doubles

[Backyardsniper]

I have a custom K gun with 470 and 9.3x74R barrels. Love the gun. Being an R8 user I was used to and wanted the decocking “safety”. This was the main reason for deciding between Krieghoff and Heym. More and more European guns are built that way, there is a reason for that. Heym does make a nice double though.

If I may offer one piece of advice it is whatever make you go with, get a standard, practical, “every day” barrel set as well as the big boomer. You'll use your rifle much more which will give you joy as well as confidence in using it.

That is probably some very solid advice. I would like to get a "everyday caliber barrel set" if possible. I can we where that would result in a great deal more use of the rifle.

 

[Red Leg]

So setting aside bespoke rifles from the traditional houses, I think Heym and Krieghoff offer the best value in current production rifles. As others have noted, the cocking slide makes a K-gun a very safe rifle in the field. Several well known PH’s like Jamy Traut and Nick Nolte use the K-gun.

A different option is a used Blaser S2. Lots of the outdoor writing savants hate it because it is non traditional, but all I have seen were amazingly accurate. It also has the cocking slide of a R8. Mine has 500-416, 375, and 30–06 barrels. All shoot sub-MOA from each barrel and composite groups in the 2-inch range at 100 yards with a scope. It uses the Blaser mounting system which means the scope can be quickly removed. The irons are superb for a follow-up.

 

[Backyardsniper]

So setting aside bespoke rifles from the traditional houses, I think Heym and Krieghoff offer the best value in current production rifles. As others have noted, the cocking slide makes a K-gun a very safe rifle in the field. Several well known PH’s like Jamy Traut and Nick Nolte use the K-gun.

A different option is a used Blaser S2. Lots of the outdoor writing savants hate it because it is non traditional, but all I have seen were amazingly accurate. It also has the cocking slide of a R8. Mine has 500-416, 375, and 30–06 barrels. All shoot sub-MOA from each barrel and composite groups in the 2-inch range at 100 yards with a scope. It uses the Blaser mounting system which means the scope can be quickly removed. The irons are superb for a follow-up.

Everything about the blaser is a win for me except the automatically engaging safety. I do value accuracy highly and would buy one simply based on that merit, but I consider the safety, actually a safety issue. I could care less if it is "traditional" I will gladly trade that for accuracy and reliability, but the automatic safety is unfortunately a no go for me. That could be a real issue in a tight situation. Although tight situations are few and far between it is kind of.lime car insurance. Rarely do you use it, but it sure is a big deal when you do need it.

 

[Opposite Pole]

Everything about the blaser is a win for me except the automatically engaging safety. I do value accuracy highly and would buy one simply based on that merit, but I consider the safety, actually a safety issue. I could care less if it is "traditional" I will gladly trade that for accuracy and reliability, but the automatic safety is unfortunately a no go for me. That could be a real issue in a tight situation. Although tight situations are few and far between it is kind of.lime car insurance. Rarely do you use it, but it sure is a big deal when you do need it.

That was my reason for not getting the S2, that and how loud it is when you break it open while cocked. Great rifle otherwise, I do regret not buying a gorgeous one in 9.3x74R that was for sale over here a little while ago.

 

[Red Leg]

Everything about the blaser is a win for me except the automatically engaging safety. I do value accuracy highly and would buy one simply based on that merit, but I consider the safety, actually a safety issue. I could care less if it is "traditional" I will gladly trade that for accuracy and reliability, but the automatic safety is unfortunately a no go for me. That could be a real issue in a tight situation. Although tight situations are few and far between it is kind of.lime car insurance. Rarely do you use it, but it sure is a big deal when you do need it.

Legitimate criticism, and one of the reasons Terry Wieland did not care for it. After using one fairly extensively, I would say it is simply a different manual of arms. Like an auto-safety SxS shotgun, bringing it to the shoulder following a reload, the thumb simply slides the cocking lever forward. But it does take some dedication and practice to get it firmly lodged muscle memory.

As noted, they are, as a rule, extremely accurate, and the design, with its tilting block action, is almost impossible to shoot off face over time. I have used the .375 (I know) and the 30-06 on buffalo and PG from around thirty yards to a bit over 200. Simply amazing versatility. I have even been criticized on this site for not using a double "traditionally" (which, as you can imagine, caused me many hours of lost sleep).

The K-Gun and Heym are great choices. I only bring up the S2 because they can occasionally be found at a discount, and based upon my experience, it is in some ways superior to a more traditional double.

 

[Backyardsniper]

Legitimate criticism, and one of the reasons Terry Wieland did not care for it. After using one fairly extensively, I would say it is simply a different manual of arms. Like an auto-safety SxS shotgun, bringing it to the shoulder following a reload, the thumb simply slides the cocking lever forward. But it does take some dedication and practice to get it firmly lodged muscle memory.

As noted, they are, as a rule, extremely accurate, and the design, with its tilting block action, is almost impossible to shoot off face over time. I have used the .375 (I know) and the 30-06 on buffalo and PG from around thirty yards to a bit over 200. Simply amazing versatility. I have even been criticized on this site for not using a double "traditionally" (which, as you can imagine, caused me many hours of lost sleep).

The K-Gun and Heym are great choices. I only bring up the S2 because they can occasionally be found at a discount, and based upon my experience, it is in some ways superior to a more traditional double.

I suppose, as you say if one were to dedicate himself to learning the manual of arms, "muscle memory" as we refered to it in the CQB world then it was not be any different than any other rifle. If safety was thier idea I believe the decocker on the K gun is a better idea. However, for the right amount of discount then I could get used to anything. It is definitely do-able but just not a great idea in design, at least not for a DG rifle. I am a fan of accuracy though and I will overlook some minor issues like that in exchange for accuracy. If the gun is money with the first shot then issues like having to run the safety after a reload are not as important?, because the first couple shots have probably already accomplished the mission.

 

[Red Leg]

I suppose, as you say if one were to dedicate himself to learning the manual of arms, "muscle memory" as we refered to it in the CQB world then it was not be any different than any other rifle. If safety was thier idea I believe the decocker on the K gun is a better idea. However, for the right amount of discount then I could get used to anything. It is definitely do-able but just not a great idea in design, at least not for a DG rifle. I am a fan of accuracy though and I will overlook some minor issues like that in exchange for accuracy. If the gun is money with the first shot then issues like having to run the safety after a reload are not as important?, because the first couple shots have probably already accomplished the mission.

You are exactly describing my thought process. I have fine Birmingham .470 boxlock. It shoots two rounds into 3 - 3.5 inches at 60-70 yards. It would be great for an elephant. But the S2 in 500-416 will do 2.5 inches 100. I further increase its reach by sighting in on the right barrel. I am obviously not going to try and brain an elephant at 100 yards, but I might want to drop the fill in the blank of a lifetime at 175 while trying to walk down that tusker. In my case, while hoofing across the Zambezi Delta marsh for buffalo, we saw a huge warthog. It was an easy shot for a scoped S2 .375 at 150 yards. Probably impossible for an iron sighted .470.

Like most Blaser things, they know ergonomics. I would simply urge you not to reject them out of hand if you get an opportunity to handle one.

 

[Backyardsniper]

You are exactly describing my thought process. I have fine Birmingham .470 boxlock. It shoots two rounds into 3 - 3.5 inches at 60-70 yards. It would be great for an elephant. But the S2 in 500-416 will do 2.5 inches 100. I further increase its reach by sighting in on the right barrel. I am obviously not going to try and brain an elephant at 100 yards, but I might want to drop the fill in the blank of a lifetime at 175 while trying to walk down that tusker. In my case, while hoofing across the Zambezi Delta marsh for buffalo, we saw a huge warthog. It was an easy shot for a scoped S2 .375 at 150 yards. Probably impossible for an iron sighted .470.

Like most Blaser things, they know ergonomics. I would simply urge you not to reject them out of hand if you get an opportunity to handle one.

I would definitely be interested in handling one. I will be at the SCI, although I think that gun is no longer in production, if someone happened to have one there I would very much like to handle it. I think we are in complete agreement on the importance of accuracy. I agree 100% with the "what if we run into ..xyz while we are tracking that elephant or buffalo. I don't think any hunting rifle worth its salt should not be able to hold a 1.5-2 MOA group. Double rifle or not.

 

[wiltznucs]

I am still somewhat in the market for a double, but mostly still in the learning phase. I saw on another thread that I believe @IvW is a fan of these rifles, I could be mistaken though. Anyway what is everyone's general opinion on these doubles and also the pricing of this one with the brass and dies. I had almost settled on saving up for a new Heym but I am interested to know you all's thoughts on this.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/940115548

Team Heym here… My gun is here on the site with some searching. Will say that a well dressed 89B such as mine will cross the $30K mark.

 

[Backyardsniper]

Team Heym here… My gun is here on the site with some searching. Will say that a well dressed 89B such as mine will cross the $30K mark.

I'm gonna have to go with the bare bones version. Ha ha. I'll be lucky if I can swing that. I may have to lean towards the K guns just for financial reasons

 

[Andrew62]

This past May I was in South Africa and I went to the Outdoor Safari store and held a 450/400 VC, wow, it was beautiful and I would have loved to have had it, it was 24,000.00. When I called Heym USA two weeks ago, he stated a new Heym, custom built, would be 18 months and in the low 20's. I would dearly love to have one of these fine rifles, and when I get somewhere here in the US where they have them, I may just order or buy one. But for starters, just last month I purchased a 'like new' Sabatti, 9.3x74R, double, for 3900.00. I'm pleased with my starting point.

 

[RTG]

Team Heym here… My gun is here on the site with some searching. Will say that a well dressed 89B such as mine will cross the $30K mark.

Nice job, your 89B looks great.

 

[ET1775]

I'm gonna have to go with the bare bones version. Ha ha. I'll be lucky if I can swing that. I may have to lean towards the K guns just for financial reasons

Do you have an idea of what caliber you would like? There are a few very reasonably priced Merkels, including new-in-box and at least one well priced Blaser S2 that I have been watching online. If you get an idea of your measurements, there may be one in your size/desired caliber.

I am of two minds myself about the best approach as I am in a similar situation where I don't have the money sitting around to order a custom just yet but I know double guns are in my near future. I could save up and get the custom ordered next year (with what features I think I want) and then wait 1-2 years for delivery, or I could spend 1/3-1/2 of the cost soon and get a double rifle to shoot and hunt for the next couple years while I save up for a custom with an idea of the features I desire based on experience shooting the entry double I have.

I go back and forth between the ideas several times per day. One concern I have is my lack of DR experience could cost a lot of money if I order what I think I want/need in a modern double only to be kicking myself in a few years wishing I had known now what I will likely know later.

The only comfort is, if I remain in analysis-paralysis long enough I will have more money put aside to have more options and be closer to the goal, whichever that may be.

In the meantime... If you have time to spare, I have found myself spending far too much time staring at Heym's wood library and imagining what my rifle might look like with the different options.

 

[Daniel Cary]

The Heym, that was available, for me was a bit pricey for a 1st. And simply didn't know if I cared for it that much given the cost. But the Rep worked his tail off .. Heym's hard to find used & not soft on the Market.

Krieghoff, delivered Relatively quick .. excellent machine, also not inexpensive though.

I'd have a hard time to commit having anything built. One Distributer in particular can't guarantee an ETA in these times, understandably. Times are getting stranger by the day.

In conclusion, there are the most respectable Hunters here & elsewhere that use all of the above & some not mentioned successfully every year. Merkel's, ie, are works of art, nothing to sneeze at or something I would consider the lesser to measure one double by another.

 

[Pondoro]

I have a scoped Krieghoff .470, a red dot Leupold in a swing mount...very pleased with it...and you have extra safety in the field with the decocker wich is a big plus.. I would choose this over a VC..

I have several other vintage doubles but due to reduced eyesight I use the Krieghoff more..

My rifle shoot factory Norma, Federal and Hornady very very similar..

Unless you plan to hunt a lot of elephant, no need for a .500 (except for the fun factor..)

 

[Daniel Cary]

Nice job, your 89B looks great.

did I miss the pics of the 89?

 

[Backyardsniper]

I have a scoped Krieghoff .470, a red dot Leupold in a swing mount...very pleased with it...and you have extra safety in the field with the decocker wich is a big plus.. I would choose this over a VC..

I have several other vintage doubles but due to reduced eyesight I use the Krieghoff more..

My rifle shoot factory Norma, Federal and Hornady very very similar..

Unless you plan to hunt a lot of elephant, no need for a .500 (except for the fun factor..)

The Kreighoff is sounding more and more attractive. I need to actually put my hands on one, which I will make a point to do at the SCI. I assume they will be there with some for sale. I want to see about this cocking lever deal in person

 

[Daniel Cary]

The Kreighoff is sounding more and more attractive. I need to actually put my hands on one, which I will make a point to do at the SCI. I assume they will be there with some for sale. I want to see about this cocking lever deal in person

The only thing Strange with Krieghoff. Before shipping it to the States, I'd asked for photos of it, The Dealer Stated "They may refuse to send pics upon Request"? .. Either way, no upgrades & like the Combi-cock. Really slim, solid though.

 

[Pondoro]

My scoped Krieghoff..

 

[frog stealer]

The Kreighoff is sounding more and more attractive. I need to actually put my hands on one, which I will make a point to do at the SCI. I assume they will be there with some for sale. I want to see about this cocking lever deal in person

I’m looking at some Krieghoffs as well…specifically their Optima drilling, but their Classic model double rifles look nice as well. So far they have been very responsive to all my questions.

As for pricing and delivery time, large US retailers are asking 8% less than their 2021 retail price sheet, 25% down, and 12 month delivery.