Peep sites

[Mark A Ouellette]

Oh my gosh! Why indeed would anyone want aperture, “peep” sights on a rifle?
Perhaps because peep sights are:

1. Accurate with a small aperture
2. Fast to acquire the intended target with large “ghost” ring aperture
3. Extremely rugged and reliable

As a teenager in my native Potter County Pennsylvania I got bitten with the lever action bug. I put aside my scope sighted .30-06 and acquired a post-64 Winchester M94 in .30-30. To that I added a Williams aperture sight and loaded ammo with 150 gr bullets. I proceeded to shoot repeatedly 3-shot 100 yard groups under 1 inch. Granted I was on the high school rifle team and my eyes at the time had vision better that 20/10. 20/10 vision means one could see at 20’ what most 20/20 vision could see at 20’.

Note: The key to accurate shooting with metallic sight is to Focus on the front sight!
With aperture sights, when focusing the front sight one's brain will naturally center it from "left to right" and "up and down" in the rear sight aperature. It's that simple! Even a little error in centering in a round aperture is in most cases more accurate sight alignment than express-type or other common open sights.

I shot more than my legal share of whitetails with that old aperture sighted peep sight rifle. Other hunters in our doe-hunting party would tell me, “If you can, shoot a deer for me”. The truth was that everyone in Potter County hunted deer but many hunters didn’t practice shooting very much. Me, I have always loved to shoot and did so very often!

Later in life, I shot competition in the Marine Corps using iron (metallic) aperture sights on the then new M-16A2. We shot slow fire standing (offhand) at 200 yards, standing to sitting rapid fire at 200, and standing to prone at 300 yards. The final phase on the Marine Corps Match Course was 20 shots slow fire at 600 yards. All that with a peep sight service “off the rack” armory grade service rifle.

I continued on with the Marine Corps Rifle Team shooting accurizied M-14’s with metallic aperture sights. We shot those peep sighted rifles out to 1000 yards!

For common military use, the M-16 Service Rifle had two apertures, one for daylight conditions and a flip up ghost ring “night sight”. For the common Marine or soldier, simple, rugged, and reliable are the best! We didn’t’ say something was Marine-proof without good reason. Marines and I assume soldiers could destroy most anything…

As an official “senior citizen” my vision is a little below 20/20. I prefer a single sighting plane provided by low power variable optics (LPVO) or reflex (red dot) sights. I would not however be afraid to hunt with aperture sighted rifles.

Here are a few YouTube links to instructional or information videos concerning aperture “peep” sights;

Match Grade - Shooting the Legendary M1A at Camp Perry

Peep Sights: Why Bother? — GMP #226 podcast with Andy Larson of Skinner Sights

Williams Gun Sight Company discussion of metallic rear sights

Williams Fool Proof aperture sight

Aperture sight discussion with Vince Meyers of KRA Customs

New England Custom Gun (NECG) Ghost Ring Peep Sight fitting to CZ 550 Magnum

Sight Alignment, Sight Picture, and Focus instruction video

Skinner Sights on Marlin 1894 .44 Magnum

 

[baxterb]

A large number of Echols’ classic rifles in “African” sized cartridges have peep sights.

 

[Jack Stevens]

Peep sights were often offered on all sorts of English rifles - even on what we would consider “African” rifles.
W.J. Jeffery offered Lyman tang sights on their Farquharson rifles - even the 450-400s.
Holland & Holland had peep staffs recessed into the top tang of some of their double rifles and some of the 465 Royal Doubles had a little leaf in the rib with a peep hole in it. Believed they called them The Royal India - something like that.
On bolt actions, Jeffery had a patent peep, Rigby had their own patent peep and Lyman made the No.1 (iirc) that could be dovetailed into the bolt just as the Rigby and Jeffery models did.
Lyman also made the 35 and 36 which fit onto the bolt release of the Mauser 98 (35) and the Mannlicher Schonauer (36) and don’t forget the “Climbing Lyman” on Winchester 1895s in 405 Winchester.
Some Mannlicher (and Mausers) were made with really nice flip-up peeps on the top tang - those are a cool feature.
All of these sights as well as the Lyman 48s etc were fit to African rifles.
Just depended on what the client wanted.

Correct on the peep sight “option” on the Rigby and Jeffery rifles.

The peep or aperture sight is the superior sight system (when mated with your preferred front sight, e.g., partridge, fiber optic, post, etc) for rifles not running an optic sight. It’s why the U.S. military transitioned from the archaic ladder sight on the 1903 Springfield rifle of WW1 to the aperture rear sights on the M1 Garand and Remington 1903A3 rifles fielded in WW2.

Hunting in bad weather, I prefer an aperture sight, like the one on my Remmy model 600 carbine. Snow and rain won’t affect sighting thru the peep/aperture to get off a quick shot.

My grandfather hunted deer back in his day with a custom 30-40 Krag rifle that has a Lyman receiver-mounted aperture unit and a barrel-banded Lyman front sight. No scopes for Old School dudes!

 

[Considering Africa]

Nobody took offence....just were having a laugh ....so go get a beer and put your feet up

No worries, I’m always nice on the Internet because here whatever you say lives forever.

 

[gbflyer]

Mike a.k.a. YT ‘Bloke on the Range’ bought the civilian version of the C19 and covered the good/bad points of the peep sight on that rifle. I suggest that you go to YouTube and search for that video on his channel.

Thank you. I watched the video. I didn’t see anywhere that the site was covered with any amount of detail. What I saw was a Tikka 7.62 with irons producing splits very close to those of the bolt AR 5.56 with Lpvo’s. It was his first go with it and he admitted that he needed work on his technique. It was fairly evident he had his favorite before he ever started which is understandable.

It’s great that people are willing to make these videos and open themselves to the peanut gallery. I feel bad for people who can’t legally own an AR the way it was intended and have to put a side handle on it.

 

[ZG47]

Thank you. I watched the video. I didn’t see anywhere that the site was covered with any amount of detail. What I saw was a Tikka 7.62 with irons producing splits very close to those of the bolt AR 5.56 with Lpvo’s. It was his first go with it and he admitted that he needed work on his technique. It was fairly evident he had his favorite before he ever started which is understandable.

It’s great that people are willing to make these videos and open themselves to the peanut gallery. I feel bad for people who can’t legally own an AR the way it was intended and have to put a side handle on it.

He had some issues with accuracy of sight adjustments, as I recall. There may have been a total of three videos on the rifle. Essentially, the peep sight appears to be durable but below Lyman 48/57 levels of consistency. Might be closer to Lyman 36 levels, the 36 being the upgraded version of the Model 21 with a right hand windage knob, instead of a top mounted clamping screw. The Tikka peep sight would seem to fall short of the practical marksmanship requirements of the Canadian Rangers BUT it is possible that Colt Canada have fitted an improved version of that sight.

 

[Jefferry404]

here is mine, ghost ring on a 495 A-square.

 

[spike.t]

No worries, I’m always nice on the Internet because here whatever you say lives forever.

Mmm...oh well that doesn't apply to me

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I've been deer/moose/elk hunting for sixty years and have yet to see a hunter with peep sights. I prefer tracking them in snow and have enough problems keeping rifle scope clean with stuff falling off trees. Peep sight would be very easily plugged with snow or debris. Leaf type rear sight not so much ... or not at all. I suspect peep sights are not popular in Africa for the same reason.

Also, African "express" sights have multiple leafs for different range shooting. Peep sights are fixed for one distance and any adjustment must be done via guesstimation i.e. "Kentucky windage."

You have got to.be.joking! When I was a kid, before scopes were on pretty much all rifles, nearly every rifle was equipped with a peep sight. This was usually a tang mounted sight on a .30-30. I now own my grandfather's 94 and my uncle's 64 and my dad's Marlin .22 and they are all outfitted with peep sights. My brother and a couple of other cousins now own several other rifles that were handed down with peeps.

As far as peeps being easily getting plugged with debris, how would you be explain why virtually all military rifles being equipped with peep sights?

 

[gbflyer]

He had some issues with accuracy of sight adjustments, as I recall. There may have been a total of three videos on the rifle. Essentially, the peep sight appears to be durable but below Lyman 48/57 levels of consistency. Might be closer to Lyman 36 levels, the 36 being the upgraded version of the Model 21 with a right hand windage knob, instead of a top mounted clamping screw. The Tikka peep sight would seem to fall short of the practical marksmanship requirements of the Canadian Rangers BUT it is possible that Colt Canada have fitted an improved version of that sight.

I’ll have to look for more videos. I like the guy and I appreciate your recommendation. I’ve always coveted a T3X Arctic but apparently there are no left handed Mounties so I’m out of luck.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

LOL, may want to check the spelling on this thread. There’s a pretty vast difference between a peep site and a peep sight!

You don't think he was asking about a porn channel to you? ;-).

 

[Ontario Hunter]

You have got to.be.joking! When I was a kid, before scopes were on pretty much all rifles, nearly every rifle was equipped with a peep sight. This was usually a tang mounted sight on a .30-30. I now own my grandfather's 94 and my uncle's 64 and my dad's Marlin .22 and they are all outfitted with peep sights. My brother and a couple of other cousins now own several other rifles that were handed down with peeps.

As far as peeps being easily getting plugged with debris, how would you be explain why virtually all military rifles being equipped with peep sights?

It seems the US military has finally acknowledged the utility of scoped infantry rifles (albeit low power red dot). Admittedly, for most of the history scopes have been in use, the designs were just not sturdy enough for regular infantry. Also, scopes were expensive to produce. Mitary iron sights on the other hand are typically fairly indestructible ( = low maintenance) and cheap to make. Both characteristics are highly desirable during times of war. Wartime requirements are not the same as for hunting.

Tang mounted sights on lever guns were ideal for saddle scabbards. Just flip the sight back against the tang and throw it in the scabbard. Leaf sights mounted on the barrel could get caught in the leather. I did see a few tang sights on lever guns but seemed to be fairly rare. Mostly "saddle guns" wore stepped buckhorn leaf sights on the barrel. Tang mounted peeps weren't cheap. Most of the guys hunting when I grew up were raised through the Depression. Even if the hunters of my youth had money, they still had economy ingrained from hard times.

 

[ZG47]

It seems the US military has finally acknowledged the utility of scoped infantry rifles (albeit low power red dot). Admittedly, for most of the history scopes have been in use, the designs were just not sturdy enough for regular infantry. Also, scopes were expensive to produce. Mitary iron sights on the other hand are typically fairly indestructible ( = low maintenance) and cheap to make. Both characteristics are highly desirable during times of war. Wartime requirements are not the same as for hunting.

Tang mounted sights on lever guns were ideal for saddle scabbards. Just flip the sight back against the tang and throw it in the scabbard. Leaf sights mounted on the barrel could get caught in the leather. I did see a few tang sights on lever guns but seemed to be fairly rare. Mostly "saddle guns" wore stepped buckhorn leaf sights on the barrel. Tang mounted peeps weren't cheap. Most of the guys hunting when I grew up were raised through the Depression. Even if the hunters of my youth had money, they still had economy ingrained from hard times.

Another thing about tang sights, is that: as rifle cartridges increased in energy levels, it reportedly became possible to lose an eye, due to the tang sight flicking back down during recoil.

 

[Jack Stevens]

here is mine, ghost ring on a 495 A-square.
View attachment 665801

It’s sad that the BRNO 602 actions abandoned the integral “pop-up” peep sight that was housed in the rear bridge of the receiver. It worked perfectly, being a precision alternative to the factory express sight. The CZ 550s never had them but could’ve.

Well-known big-bore rifle ‘smith, Lon Paul (Tanglewood), and for a while, I believe, Wayne at AHR, did retro-fitting of a pop-up peep sight for customers with either type of action. Don’t know if they still do.

I have the same NECG peep unit for my .404. I found it hard to adjust in the field and difficult to re-zero. It also sits too high on the receiver bridge for my taste and, frankly, it looks like an abortion when attached to the lines of an otherwise classic African DGR. A bolt-mounted peep, such as Rigby and Jeffery offered, would be so much better.

Possibly a Skinner-type aperture sight, machined into the 602/550 rear bridge, would prove both practical in the field and esthetically less offensive.

 

[Sika98k]

Correction added at the bottom of the replies sorry for any offenses in my language.

I think everyone took it in good humour.

 

[Jefferry404]

Jack
I think you are right. But I did not like the Brno peeps in that they required a very large hole into the action for the button release.
I have been wanting a Rigby peep, I will see if the McLaughlin versions will fit my sight elevations.
Steve

 

[towserthemouser]

Peep sights intended for the physical spell checkers and precise language correctors in the crowd. Personal preferences on where you choose to look and what you choose to look at aside, but since the point was made, I offer this post correction because I don’t know how to do it in the original post. Done and dusted.

We all make misteaks.

 

[Safari Dave]

A "ghost ring" peep sight might be the perfect short range, non-optic sight.

A normal peep sight is surprisingly accurate. A friend (Vietnam War vet) taught me how to use them a few year ago, and I amazed at the accuracy. I was able to shoot about 3 MOA at 200yards with them after a little practice.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

LOL, may want to check the spelling on this thread. There’s a pretty vast difference between a peep site and a peep sight!

Underrated post - ooh la la.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

On bolt actions, Jeffery had a patent peep, Rigby had their own patent peep and Lyman made the No.1 (iirc) that could be dovetailed into the bolt just as the Rigby and Jeffery models did.
Lyman also made the 35 and 36 which fit onto the bolt release of the Mauser 98 (35) and the Mannlicher Schonauer (36)...
Some Mannlicher (and Mausers) were made with really nice flip-up peeps on the top tang - those are a cool feature.
All of these sights as well as the Lyman 48s etc were fit to African rifles.
Just depended on what the client wanted.

Indeed.


Westley Richards, 1912:

From 1939 (U.S.) Stoeger Catalog:

Options list for Mannlicher Schoenauer:

Mannlicher Schoenauer(s) with 'Special Folding Peep Sight' option.
Note similarity to Westley Richards 1912 and Mauser application per 1939 Stoeger:

For Mauser (1939 Stoeger):