Pet Peve: Extra fees on offers

[cagkt3]

Great thread, lot of really good stuff on here.

 

[jeff]

I'm not against paying a fee for a late arrival meal and a bed, I just don't think it should be the same as a full day with hunting too! I have stayed overnight at a B&B when I got in late once because the outfitter wanted $300 PP for my wife and I, that's $600 for one night, the B&B charged us $80 and the outfitter picked us up early the next morning and we had the whole day and a afternoon hunt for the two of us for $600.

 

[PeteG]

Looking at everyone's responses here, there seem to be too many variables at hand to set up a standard quoting system.

In my opinion, a hunting day is a hunting day. You will pay for that. If you arrive in camp at 15:00 after a long drive/travel day/flights from wherever you came from then that day will not be charged. Especially if the outfitter is charging for the transport. Again, if this is a 1.5hr trip, then forgo charging the transport, if this is a 6hr+ trip, charge a fee that will cover the trip and treat the client to a decent meal en route or before hand etc.

This is my opinion (which is often not very useful... ) and based on here in Zambia where you can be charged between $600 and $1200 for day rates quite easily.
RSA may be different where the day rates are quite a bit lower and the outfitter may be playing with charges everywhere to ensure he keeps in the black.
This also works to keep the initial offer low which attracts interest.

For example, if i quote you a hunt in zambia for 14 days and say you are all in at $14k, your only other costs is trophy fees and taxidermy, but elsewhere you are quoted day rates of $8,4k, transfers $500 each way, dip pack $1.5k, rifle permits $150, ammo taxes $2/rd, conservation fee $20/day, concession fees $2.5k, accoms before/after hunt for a night if needed... you can see the second option looks way more attractive, yet once added up they are not much different. and the first option is a one time payment, some days the outfitter wins because you may not require accoms the night before transfer to the camp, other days he loses because you came in with 3 rifles and 150 rounds of ammo and he will cover all these costs rather than the client...

Different strokes for different folks...

My point here is not to write off what appears more expensive at first glance, there may be a lot more involved than you initially see.
Even the higher value options are worth looking into.

 

[enysse]

I have worked in government and the health care trade. To be honest everyone likes breakdowns of costs in those businesses. On a hunt, I don't mind doing the math. In fact I appreciate the breakdown in costs. It makes me feel better about how I'm spending my money. I don't want things to be all in one cost and don't mind the breakdown at all. If I'm unhappy with the costs, I talk to the outfitter about the terms of contract. And I think most outfitters are more than willing to listen to your concerns.

The devil is in the details.....so I like breakdowns in costs. It lets me now right away if something is affordable or out of reach.

I personally don't like road transfer fees but understand the need for them too.

 

[cagkt3]

I have worked in government and the health care trade. To be honest everyone likes breakdowns of costs in those businesses. On a hunt, I don't mind doing the math. In fact I appreciate the breakdown in costs. It makes me feel better about how I'm spending my money. I don't want things to be all in one cost and don't mind the breakdown at all. If I'm unhappy with the costs, I talk to the outfitter about the terms of contract. And I think most outfitters are more than willing to listen to your concerns.

The devil is in the details.....so I like breakdowns in costs. It lets me now right away if something is affordable or out of reach.

I personally don't like road transfer fees but understand the need for them too.

Agree with this, but I'm an engineer and love making spreadsheets. For me, anytime I'm looking to make a major purchase I'm building a spreadsheet. Whether it's booking a hunting trip, pricing out things at an auction, etc I always have one handy. Just helps me digest the info and compare

 

[Rule 303]

Just my two bobs worth.
A very good and relevant thread. Also enlightening.

When I am looking for a hunt or anything online if I see POA or contact for price I click out of that web site then and there as those words say to me "This costs way more than I can afford". Just my experience. The couple of paid for hunts I did in Australia and NZ, I ran into the outfitter while on holidays and discussion about their operation and costs with them or knew them.

I do not mind all the add on's being listed as I know some if not all exist. It also lets me see if all operators in the same country are charging the same tax's and % for the tax. However what gets my eye is the initial base rates. Then I will check out the rest of web sites. When I contact the outfitter I will ask for the bottom line and also agree that any additional activities will have additional costs. I do expect travel days to be cheaper than hunting days, unless I am chartering a plane.

Yes I am not well heeled so look for the cheaper options, it is the only way I can do hunts in Africa. However I do not expect 3 star let alone 5 star accommodation. I would rather spend the money on hunting and animals than flash accommodation. I'd be quite happy to sleep in a tent or a swag on the ground and cook a steak or similar on a BBQ plate. Hell even a solar shower or bird bath with water heated over the fire will do, don't care if we return to a base camp of a night. I just want the PH and trackers to be good at their job.

Like somebody else mentioned I do not want to be the bloke who whinges, moans or is forever trying to haggle over prices once the price is set.

 

[Hutch01]

In most instances, South Africa and Namibia or still the best values in the hunting world. Most diverse game to hunt, laundry, meals, truck,trackers and so forth are traditional African Safari and included. I am thankful for these things and the fact that we have affordable jet travel to enable us to get over there to experience it all. So quit the belly akin'!

 

[Hutch01]

Where else to you get your underwear ironed?

 

[Rule 303]

Where else to you get your underwear ironed?

yeah, its when they starch them that I object.

 

[PeteG]

yeah, its when they starch them that I object.

Make sure you ask them not to use this fabric softener on your underwear...

 

[Kowas Adventure Safaris]

As a Hunter on a budget I carefully look at offers for hunts here and on other networks. I doubt that I'm the only one that is turned off by extra fees in hunt offers. Some offers look very good initially until you look at all the extras: to and from airport transport fees, charges for arrival and departure days, charges to deliver your trophies to the taxidermist, rifle permit fee, tax on ammo, arrival and departure fee to inspect your rifle [Kimberly airport plus probably others], government taxes on daily costs and the list could go on. Sometimes I think they'd like to charge me for the air I breathe. After all of the extras, there is then an expectation of tips.........
...
It just flat turns me off. Go through 10-15 hunt offers and you can see what I'm talking about. Rant is over. Bruce

Dear Bruce
You have a very strong and valid point. We also do not understand the difficulty of this matter.
When clients show interest in a potential safari with us, we then compile a calculation sheet / pro forma invoice / quotation, indicating all possible costs that might occur during the safari.
This sheet assist with budget purposes. When any payments are being conducted, this sheet to be kept updated. The final invoice then being compiled from the calculation sheet which then reflects the actual safari activities.
By compiling the calculation sheet, misunderstanding and confusion is eliminated.

 

[lockingblock]

Hunting is like buying a lathe.

You buy the lathe...and you think, "hey, I'm good, now I have a lathe"...

Then...you realize you need a lot of tooling.

So, you spend about as much on tooling as you spent on the lathe...

Doubling the original cost is always a safe bet when it comes to big hunts. Take the base fee for the hunt, double it...and you usually are close to your final, out the door, costs.

 

[Ryan]

In general I agree, transparency and simplicity keeps clients and outfitters happy and I look for it. But, then you throw in psychology.... I'll leave out other nationalities but I know Americans can be our own worst enemy. We have a nasty habit of looking more often for the cheapest initial offer and not look at the little costs that add up until after. Plane tickets are a wonderful parallel you can see right now. Two airlines have the same flight, one charges more but nothing for up to two bags, another charges less but has a fee for second or maybe each bag. The latter will fill the plane faster but the customers end up paying the same in the end. Standard practice now. For hunting this pops up in auction hunts a lot from what I've seen and @gizmo has his own good example here. So where and what do outfitters include in the price to fill their calendar, be a succesful business and give a client what they want. I don't envy outfitters, it's a tough balance but it's a fine line...

 

[gillettehunter]

Great discussion guys. I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about. There is a lion hunt advertised from Zim. Exportable now. Daily and trophy fees add up to about $85,000. Gov fees on top of that which you can't do anything about. Here's the ones that would cause me problems:
$300 road transfer fee
$750 field trophy preparation fee and transport of trophy to taxidermist fee
15 USD per person per day VAT on accommodation
Rifle Hire at $ 20 per day plus $ 10 per bullet
Good example of "plucking the golden goose". If you can afford the $85K then why not an extra $300 for a 90 min drive each way? Thats pretty low in my opinion. For $85K I'd throw in the rifle hire and bullets and hope he shoots lots of bullets cause my trophy fees on other animals is going to go up. Then there is the $750 trophy field prep and transport. No further comment on that........
So basically you have a hunt that with some bait and a few plains game animals could easily reach $92K and they want another $1500 for the extras. Dang I need to figure out how to sell more add-on's in my business!!
Bruce

 

[Brent in Az]

With the news of Lion permits available in Zim & Zam, there will be many overpriced Lion hunts hitting the market. Supply & demand for permits that are only available through the end of 2018.

 

[TTundra]

So basically you have a hunt that with some bait and a few plains game animals could easily reach $92K and they want another $1500 for the extras. Dang I need to figure out how to sell more add-on's in my business!!

I wanted to comment on this but held back. I agree with you completely. There is plenty of margin in that 60,000+ daily fees and 15,000 trophy fee....why cant the $300 1.5 hour car ride be thrown in....

 

[Wheels]

Make sure you ask them not to use this fabric softener on your underwear...

Sounds like the voice of experience talking.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Agree with this, but I'm an engineer and love making spreadsheets. For me, anytime I'm looking to make a major purchase I'm building a spreadsheet. Whether it's booking a hunting trip, pricing out things at an auction, etc I always have one handy. Just helps me digest the info and compare

In God we trust...........all others submit data!

 

[Divernhunter]

One of many reasons I picked my outfitter, same one both times, is that a 10day(or whatever number) was 10 days of hunting all day spot and stalk. Unless you wanted sometime of no hunting. So a 10 day hunt meant 12 days in camp. There was no charge for picking us/me up for the 1.75-2 hour drive. After being met at the airport they took us/me for a meal then off to camp. We even stayed at their request an extra day because I saved $250 per plane ticket by doing so. I had rented a motel room by the airport for that day but they had me cancel it.
There were many other reasons I booked with them but that was one.

 

[gizmo]

One of many reasons I picked my outfitter, same one both times, is that a 10day(or whatever number) was 10 days of hunting all day spot and stalk. Unless you wanted sometime of no hunting. So a 10 day hunt meant 12 days in camp. There was no charge for picking us/me up for the 1.75-2 hour drive. After being met at the airport they took us/me for a meal then off to camp. We even stayed at their request an extra day because I saved $250 per plane ticket by doing so. I had rented a motel room by the airport for that day but they had me cancel it.
There were many other reasons I booked with them but that was one.

That’s service and the way it should be.