Police encounters in South Africa

[Hunting Hitman]

It’s all about terminology. You handled it correctly but Improbably would have had the PH offer an import permit fee to get through the process. I’m sure the attorney could go back later and pay a disposal fee to the police and get the items for your PH.

While it’s not worth the hassle it’s on your PH to solve the problem. Glad you only lost the 1/2 day of travel.

HH

 

[G Skinner]

This is not just a problem in Africa ...... Upon my return to Canada . Canadian Customs detained me for my compound bow ...... She told me I was not allowed a crossbow in Canada and that I had to produce a PAL in order to keep it and then there was an issue with my broadheads not being declared as blades ?

 

[Green Chile]

I always give my remaining ammo and brass to my PH, so I’m not certain what happens on the return trip home with ammo. Just one less thing to consider, but clearly circumstance.

Sometimes SAPS gets confused on the empties. I've seen that. Also, recovered bullets can get their attention. Anything outside of the box is a squirrel for them to chase.

 

[Green Chile]

This is not just a problem in Africa ...... Upon my return to Canada . Canadian Customs detained me for my compound bow ...... She told me I was not allowed a crossbow in Canada and that I had to produce a PAL in order to keep it and then there was an issue with my broadheads not being declared as blades ?

I know of a recent situation in Africa (this season) where the client had a bow and a rifle. The rifle was on the permit of course. The officer asked for the serial of the bow and why wasn't it on the gun permit. It's not a gun. The PH had to argue with the officer about that scenario. Common sense isn't common.

 

[Red Leg]

That's fair but how would you declare reloading components?

I have no idea. I simply would not consider bringing them.

 

[Green Chile]

It's very common for PHs to request this or that which is hard for them to source locally. I've been successful at that in the past but won't be doing it anymore on anything gun or ammo related. This particular PH is also not going to request it from clients anymore.

 

[grand veneur]

The problem wasn't just with the South African police. It certainly unfolded in an African way, but it could also have happened in other countries of this world with really serious consequences. Many of you come from countries where gun laws are not very strict. As an European and especially as a French or German, I would never think of transporting unofficially registered weapon parts. A lot of this things have to be registered in our countries and entered into our gun ID cards.

When it comes to components for reloading, we often have already problems during domestic weapons checks in our countries when it comes to storage of rifles and ammunition, domestic checks from the authorities that many of you also don't know. Some so-called inspectors cannot distinguish with absolute certainty between loaded ammunition and reloading components. That's why you cannot expect that African authorities do it better than ours.

The absolute rule for traveling without too much problems with rifles and ammunition is to have with you only the rifle and his accessories, the right ammunition and, if possible, carry the empty cases with you on the way back, especially if someone has counted the cartridges beforehand. If cases have been lost by hunting, a good explication must be prepared, maybe an evidence that you shot game.

 

[grand veneur]

You should not always see corruption and bribes everywhere. This sort of thing is certainly widespread in Africa, but there are laws regarding it in these countries too. It always depends on who control you, some people are very strict about the laws, like in our countries. Anyone who tries to achieve something through money can be arrested for attempting to corrupt an official. If someone wants something, it is announced in an indirect way in African style, never suggest nowadays something like that straight away.

 

[Green Chile]

It was interesting that they never asked us directly for a bribe...and we didn't offer that either. I felt like what we had done was not illegal but offering a bribe is illegal (even though it happens a lot). When we left them to talk, the attorney worked that out. I didn't ask what was said but the result was obvious.

 

[matt2H]

Very interesting and I think kudos for remaining calm in both situations.

Departing ORT in 2023 I had a similar situation with a single spent brass case in my luggage. It was a mistake on my part and a stupid one. I too was phoned and escorted to the small windowless room and had to watch my bag being examined for the offending piece of brass. It was confiscated and I had to sign the piece of paper. With a sarcastic smile I recall it being pretty close to a large bladed knife - far more dangerous than some brass.

Regardless - I am much more careful now and try to create such opportunities.

One final note on that paper- I think it is mere paperwork and filed in the trash can or forgotten drawer. I travelled for my hunt in July 2024 with rifle and ammunition without any issues.

 

[Green Chile]

One final note on that paper- I think it is mere paperwork and filed in the trash can or forgotten drawer. I travelled for my hunt in July 2024 with rifle and ammunition without any issues.

I've been to Africa 4x since the first scenario in the small windowless room and nothing seemed to be flagged in my paperwork or processing. There are many of these logbooks around. I've signed numerous different ones going through the same checkpoint.

 

[Foxi]

That's fair but how would you declare reloading components?

not at all .just leave it alone. a certain amount of the blame for this situation also lies with you.an experienced hunter like you who takes weapons and ammunition things abroad......In Germany, they would also get you into trouble.One of my Ph s in Zimbabwe once asked me to bring a rear and front sight for his gun and he was a bit offended when I didn't do it.Everything that makes the authorities suspicious stays at home.When I travel by plane with friends, I always ask them to put their eyeballs in their jackets and other bags to make sure that there is no ammunition left in them, even if it's only empty shot shells. In these matters, all customs officials are free from joke, even without the desire for cash.
I never expect flight attendants and customs to know the laws.
It's probably because you Americans simply deal with these things more freely.In my country, you are socialized very differently.

 

[KTMpilot]

To be fair, this can happen anywhere in the world at the moment with the current state of affairs, even in the USA. I had it happen to me in Chicago O’ Hare: I was sitting at my gate waiting to board when I heard my name called on the PA by the gate agent, I went forward and was escorted down into the baggage area by a TSA person and taken to my luggage in which was a box of brand new unfired brass I had bought at Cabela’s. It got confiscated and all sorts of threats about being placed on a “no fly list”, but they let me go and I wasn’t going to argue about unfired brass not being prohibited or not. Left a bad taste in my mouth for sure.

 

[WyoBull]

In August 2023 my wife and I along with my best friend and his wife travelled to South Africa to hunt Buffalo and Crocodile.
I shot a really nice Buffalo using Barnes 300 gr TSX out of my 375 H&H. I shot him twice and both bullets were recovered and were exact specimens of how Barnes bullets should perform with all four petals rolled back towards the base.
Throughout the hunt I carried the spent cartridges and bullets in my camera case as other hunters wanted to see how they performed. My plan was to bring them back and put them in a shadow box beside my pedestal mount.
Instead of putting them with my ammunition in a locked case for the trip home, I completely forgot to take them out of my camera backpack, which was a carry on bag.
Well, it showed up on X-ray going through security in Johannesburg. I was taken into a small windowless room and interrogated about how illegal it was to carry ammunition. A number of times I told them it was not ammunition, it was spent shell casings and bullets I had used on my Buffalo. They weren’t buying it and we had about a 20 minute silent standoff in that small room. The only thing I was smart enough to NOT do was offer them money to get the bullets and casings back. That would have been a bribe and could have given them reason to legally arrest me. They made me sign a couple of documents and after the silent standoff I picked up my camera bag and just walked out of the room. They clearly wanted money but we were at an impasse in any money changing hands.
I was definitely scared (have watched too many movies on going to prison in a foreign country), and glad to get the hell out of there.
I am really bummed to have lost those bully’s and shell casings but shame on me for not putting them in my locked ammo case.
Lesson learned.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

I’ve never had anything like this happen in South Africa however Zimbabwe and a drone are a cautionary tale. Spent more than a 1/2 day in a small windowless room, was taken into the basement of the airport, to the top floor offices, and even onto the roof. Wasn’t sure if they were trying to intimidate or what. Met with a couple of “Ministers and Director Generals” in the government and am now an “officially licensed” Drone Pilot by the Civil Aviation Authority of Zimbabwe and have a cool certificate/license

Zimbabwe also questioned the fact I had a brick and a half of .22LR (declared) and tried counting each shell. They apparently thought the number was too high. I think they gave-up 1/2 way through the 2nd box of 50 which they had to recount like 7 times, and decided to believe my math of 50rds x 16 boxes. Exiting with Zero Rounds was also interesting but showing several different pictures of actual piles of guinea fowl, ducks & geese, or other birds, seemed to satisfy the police officers about me “shooting everything”.

I also had a live round fall through a hole in my Bino harness and get stuck between a couple layers of fabric while transitioning flights in a middle eastern country. Issue here was it was in my carry-on. It also wasn’t picked up in the states going through TSA multiple times. It also was a round in a caliber gun I wasn’t traveling with and my well meaning father was trying to talk out of it and had to be reminded about not speaking to the police. When a squad worth of soldiers carrying AK’s march towards you the situation can get tense but if you let them do the talking and listen it’s possible to make your original flight and only spend the layover being questioned.

There are definitely items I wouldn’t try to bring into other countries, and there are some items like the drone which I wouldn’t think about. Small misc gun parts like @Green Chile had I probably would’ve had in my checked bag of clothing separate from the ammo box and if questioned said they were spares or “souvenirs”.

It also happens in the US. Certain airports are more friendly to firearms. Print out the TSA policy. I’ve had several TSA Agents get pissed about not having TSA locks on my gun case or refusing to give them the key so they could “inspect” them without me present in a restricted area.

 

[Denvir Tire]

I’ve never had anything like this happen in South Africa however Zimbabwe and a drone are a cautionary tale. Spent more than a 1/2 day in a small windowless room, was taken into the basement of the airport, to the top floor offices, and even onto the roof. Wasn’t sure if they were trying to intimidate or what. Met with a couple of “Ministers and Director Generals” in the government and am now an “officially licensed” Drone Pilot by the Civil Aviation Authority of Zimbabwe and have a cool certificate/license

Zimbabwe also questioned the fact I had a brick and a half of .22LR (declared) and tried counting each shell. They apparently thought the number was too high. I think they gave-up 1/2 way through the 2nd box of 50 which they had to recount like 7 times, and decided to believe my math of 50rds x 16 boxes. Exiting with Zero Rounds was also interesting but showing several different pictures of actual piles of guinea fowl, ducks & geese, or other birds, seemed to satisfy the police officers about me “shooting everything”.

I also had a live round fall through a hole in my Bino harness and get stuck between a couple layers of fabric while transitioning flights in a middle eastern country. Issue here was it was in my carry-on. It also wasn’t picked up in the states going through TSA multiple times. It also was a round in a caliber gun I wasn’t traveling with and my well meaning father was trying to talk out of it and had to be reminded about not speaking to the police. When a squad worth of soldiers carrying AK’s march towards you the situation can get tense but if you let them do the talking and listen it’s possible to make your original flight and only spend the layover being questioned.

There are definitely items I wouldn’t try to bring into other countries, and there are some items like the drone which I wouldn’t think about. Small misc gun parts like @Green Chile had I probably would’ve had in my checked bag of clothing separate from the ammo box and if questioned said they were spares or “souvenirs”.

It also happens in the US. Certain airports are more friendly to firearms. Print out the TSA policy. I’ve had several TSA Agents get pissed about not having TSA locks on my gun case or refusing to give them the key so they could “inspect” them without me present in a restricted area.

On my last trip over, I had hardware store locks on the rifle case. The counter staff for United told me that TSA has a ring of keys as big as a basketball, and can easily open any padlock they encounter.

 

[BRICKBURN]

This is not just a problem in Africa ...... Upon my return to Canada . Canadian Customs detained me for my compound bow ...... She told me I was not allowed a crossbow in Canada and that I had to produce a PAL in order to keep it and then there was an issue with my broadheads not being declared as blades ?

Lunatics.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

On my last trip over, I had hardware store locks on the rifle case. The counter staff for United told me that TSA has a ring of keys as big as a basketball, and can easily open any padlock they encounter.

I’ve encountered this issue several times where a TSA agent didn’t know the policy on firearms and wanted to make a big deal out of it. Certain states I now expect it (NYC, NJ, CA) other states like NM, ID, and CO I’ve had the issue but wouldn’t expect it given the number of hunters. I fly enough to be Executive Platinum with American Airlines each year, and depending on the year 40-80% of the flights have a checked firearm. Given the frequency I fly, especially with firearms I’ve probably encountered more “issues” than most others.

A TSA agent in Boise also made a big deal about having a whole frozen chukar stuffed in a sock (to keep the feathers neat) in my carry-on but had no issues with the guns/lock that trip.

 

[Green Chile]

A TSA agent in Boise also made a big deal about having a whole frozen chukar stuffed in a sock (to keep the feathers neat) in my carry-on but had no issues with the guns/lock that trip.

I've done a lot of weekend turkey hunting trips to many states and once flew home with 4 turkeys in my carry-on from a 2 state hunt. The agents found it to be interesting during their boring work shift.

 

[cwpayton]

Great lessons learned for everyone. I was nervous just reading the second part. I appreciate the sincerity and details. I’ve had similar instances occur, not to this level, in SA and Mexico and the key is to not panic, don’t talk too much, let people that know how to handle it help.

I had a spent shotgun shell in my backpack on the way back from Canada 3 years ago. Screener saw it on X-ray and took a while to find it. I was really nervous, but didn’t say anything. They asked me several questions, and I answered honestly about the the hunt, the ammo, and the fact that I used that backpack in the field. Ammo and shotguns were provided with the hunt. I was hoping it was something else they saw. They riffled through my backpack, turned it inside out, and it was at the very bottom tucked under the seam! The agent looked at me, and I thought; I’m in trouble, and he said “It happens often, good thing it was an empty shell” and an agent rushed me to my plane as I was the last one to board…

Not sure what would have happened if it were a live round? I felt like I got lucky and will be more careful next time.

GoIng through salt lake arpt. a no. of years ago I had left a single live round in my back pack , after going to security they called me aside , 3 officers,, held up the round and ask me what it was, I calmly answered looks like a 30 carbine to me. " do you like to hunt? ", oh yea alot. "well next time make sure you clean out your backpack better. we'll keep this," and i was on my way, whew! ONLY thing I could think of was , I wore A official state seal belt buckle with a large star on it, but NOT sure , just was my day.
2nd incident.. my wife was coming through Sea tac about 3 weeks ago and a Chinese man had a grenade in his backpack right behind her. IT was "clear the area" and about 9 TSA and police ran over and surrounded him . Wife practically ran out of the area. end of story.