Police encounters in South Africa

[Safari Dave]

This is why you pay Gracy or Travel Express a commission for your airline tickets.

If your safari company will handle everything, that should be fine as well.




I don't know who's palm needs grease. They do...

 

[Wildwillalaska]

Do not ever take for granted that law enforcement, I don’t care of what country, even remotely understand the nuances of firearms regulations, here in the US as well. I’ve had to defend roughly a half dozen different folks over the last decade who were charged with firearm related charges that simply did not exist and each of those were because the officer did not understand the law. What is scary to me however is that the charges made is passed the district attorney with the state still pursuing them. These were all state cases, ones I do believe the Feds would have known better. Also all ones that were later dismissed, but only after facing serious felony weapons charges, and in the instances coming to mind were the main or highest level offense charged.

One case I couldn’t initially fault the trooper since the serial number was somewhat hidden. It was a case where the gent was stopped for other things but when the trooper looked at his rifle he did not see any visible serial number so the gent was arrested for possessing a firearm with altered or removed serial number and was subjected to interrogation about where he stole the weapon. It was an old military Mauser (cannot remember which make now as I type this) that he had sporterized back in the 90’s. Had a Fajen like laminated stock and was teflon coated. When I got initial discovery, it included photos of the weapon and what shocked me was that the trooper also took photos of it after he took a pair of Fisker scissors to the barrel shroud, scraping the teflon coating off in an attempt to read the fine engraving underneath. In the photo there was a bunch of fine stainless shavings in with all the teflon and the trooper was unable to read the engraving, and actually pointed to that aspect as some kind of evidence that the number had been sanded down to prevent identification…when he was the one that actually adulterated it in the first place. Moreover, he totally failed to understand what he was even looking for since it was not part of the receiver in the first place. He had scraped off the chambering engraving. I was just dumbfounded but helped me realize just how little some of these folks know about weapons and federal firearm laws.

Once I was finally able to compel an inspection with basic disassembly, which required court assistance before they would allow, like I was going to destroy the rifle they already boogered up, the mystery was solved. Just like I had shown the prosecutor and judge, the serial number on that particular make rides very low on the receiver, but may likely match the numbers visible on other parts. As soon as I was loosened from the stock, viola, there was the serial number which also showed the trigger and bottom metal were original to the weapon as well. All that mess because the individual charging and those prosecuting did not understand the laws they are charged with enforcing.

Just this year I had two young mean charged with federal firearms violations under our state law, one for having a short barreled rifle and the other for having a handgun with removed serial number. Neither a valid charge. The short barreled rifle is actually a pistol, and ATF recognizes as such, and the handgun with removed serial number, as some might guess, was an 80% kit frame finished here in this state and legal at the time and now. Again, both rectified, but only after formal charging and having to fight it in court.

 

[Wildwillalaska]

Law enforcement officers get a fair amount of training on the weapons they use in their service, but if they are not firearm enthusiasts outside of work, which many are not, don’t assume they know the federal designation between SBR and handgun, or sawed off shotgun and a short firearm that fires a shot shell however is not a shotgun by FFL definition as it’s originally manufactured with a grip nubbin and never built to fire from the shoulder, so is some kind of exception with ATF opinion letter confirming legality. (This is another example, and tell folks I know, even if you buy it at the local sportsman’s warehouse, keep a copy of the ATF letter in the case if traveling outside the home with it, the officer/trooper you run into may not have ever stood at a gun counter).

These kind of situations are things our local LE encounter maybe 0.05% of the time and is either totally outside their training and experience or they have totally forgotten what little training they received on it because it comes up so
Incredibly infrequently for them. As a gun nut and hunter traveling with firearms, whether to the local long range rifle match or to a foreign country, if you review what things you need to do for adherence to regs, print a copy and keep with you, so it’s not just your word for it or interpretation, but the actual regs they can then sort…or in some unfortunate circumstances, ignore and try to shake you down.

Carrying firearms in Africa and Mexico both just have a sketch feel to much of it, but Germany is what scares me. Having my flight from
Frankfurt cancelled in June was eye opening. I had already completed paid for my permit just in case I had to pick up my firearm and recheck it. I didn’t, but every person I spoke with while trying to sort options and exit all seemed too focused on the fact I was traveling with a firearm to the distraction of everything else. And made super fearful when my Rigby was left behind on my departure, took a totally different route to the states and seemed to stall in Newark for few days before finally making it back to me.

 

[Wildwillalaska]

Travel safe, travel smartly (like avoid Frankfurt if traveling with a firearm) as we owe it to ourselves. As long as crazy people engage in crazy, mass violence using firearms, we will see groups interested in increased firearms regulations and restrictions. I don’t ever see the government taking our guns, but can see restrictions on the population capable of legally possessing them, and to that end, I don’t want any kind of blip on my digital footprint relating to a firearms issue.

 

[Sika98k]

As a frequent user of Frankfurt airport I have no problems with either it or the staff. 5 of us arrived there on Thursday, cleared firearms without even producing any paperwork.
We returned this afternoon and a frankly most attractive police officer inspected our firearms and checked the serial numbers against our European Firearms Pass’s. She enquired where and what we had been hunting and we parted company with a Waidmannsheil as she and her colleague left.

 

[runningman]

I feel when it comes to the authorities it’s best to comply and stay calm.. thanks for shearing your experience.

 

[Nyati]

Stay calm and smile, be friendly, it will save your day, specially in Africa.

 

[Oil & Dirt]

On my returning flights from a trip to Zim as I read this. Very similar experiences as posted. In the past I had to give SAPS $20 to fix an issue they intentionally created. This trip required $40 and I’m honestly not sure why but at this point I wish they’d just be up front about needing money to fix it and not hold me up for 45 mins. The folks in Harare were less than helpful on my flight in and had major concern why my solids were longer than TSX’s of the same caliber. Return flight home though the folks in Harare were very helpful in getting me thru security and rifle was checked on to Newark so no issue with SAPS.

 

[Green Chile]

I hadn't heard about issues with one bullet looking longer than another type. That just shows you how odd/random/strange it can be. It all depends on who you are dealing with. The experiences vary tremendously on that. As I've learned and others have said, calmness gets you through almost anything but it's not a great experience. I just want to give others a heads up on the various things they might encounter with Police.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Last season’s issue was encountered on the back end of the hunt. I had ordered some miscellaneous gun parts online and the commercial seller in Africa asked if I was going to be in Africa anytime soon. I replied, yes I’m going for a hunt this season. They said we could ship them to you or we could get them to your PH and you could fly home with them. What kind of parts are we talking about? Barrels…actions…serialed parts? No…some misc springs, bottom metal, and a safety for a BRNO project I was working on. I had scoured the internet and could only find them in South Africa. As you probably know, in Africa the barrels are serial numbered and that is the regulated piece.

So the parts were shipped to my PH by the licensed gun part dealer in South Africa and all parties knew I was going to fly home with them. I picked them up and flew from Polokwane airport back to OR Tambo for my flight home. I had them in my checked luggage but not declared on my gun permit. There is no place on the permit to declare non-serialed, unregulated parts and springs. There was no trigger, barrel, action or anything that even looked like a gun.

I checked my bags, went through the firearms process to exit Africa and went to my gate. About an hour later the counter agent who had checked my bags walked up to me and said I need you to come with me. I said what’s the problem? They didn’t really answer me and said come with me. We went through a series of doors and ended up in a very small room with no windows. In a few minutes, 7 police officers crammed into the small area with us and begin asking questions about the small package of parts in my checked luggage. They asked what they were and I replied in full honesty…misc parts that are not serial numbered for a gun…springs and odd bits of metal. They were very concerned that I was trafficking in guns somehow and questioned me for about 90 min asking the same questions in different ways. They wrote everything down in their log books and asked me to sign that. I asked what am I signing and they just pointed to the log book. They said never do this again and released me just before the flight left. Exactly what was wrong was never explained and I honestly don’t think they knew what to do but they had detained me and had to have some paperwork for their time.

'Had the very same happen at YYZ in Canada years back. LOL (They finally stated that I was side-stepping NAFTA and wanted me to pay a $150 fine in Cash. After 2.5 hrs, I did.)

 

[Scott CWO]

Go carefully through your duffels, packs and gear before entering or leaving any country or even other states. I would never take reloading components or gun parts anywhere outside the USA or when flying inside the USA. It can be technically legal but not worth the risk. I don’t even leave ammo behind for the PH. It could be interpreted as smuggling.

 

[One Day...]

That's becoming more common. If I wasn't such a gun guy, I would do that more often. There are some places like central Africa where I would not bring my own gun. In the spring, I will not be taking my rifle to Argentina and will rent theirs.

I am torn apart with the same dilemma: a big part of the pleasure of the hunt, for me, is to use my own rifle, that I have generally dreamed of for a long time, cherished when finally purchased, scoped with the "perfect" optic for the hunt, sighted ever so precisely and carefully with the "perfect" ammo for the hunt, etc. Just hunting with it (I do not mean just the shooting, I mean the walking with it all day) is a huge pleasure in itself.

But I have a concede that international travel, and especially international air travel, with firearms is becoming ever more stressful...

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I am torn apart with the same dilemma: a big part of the pleasure of the hunt, for me, is to use my own rifle, that I have generally dreamed of for a long time, cherished when finally purchased, scoped with the "perfect" optic for the hunt, sighted ever so precisely and carefully with the "perfect" ammo for the hunt, etc. Just hunting with it (I do not mean just the shooting, I mean the walking with it all day) is a huge pleasure in itself.

But I have a concede that international travel, and especially international air travel, with firearms is becoming ever more stressful...

There are some countries (like Argentina) that I will not go to for hunting. But like you, I take pride in my rifles and want to use them. I have always been very careful to have all of the paperwork in order and not have any unaccounted for rounds loose in my baggage. I've been through customs in Canada, South Africa and Zimbabwe. Never had a serious problem in any country except US (New York). Long story, but even that worked out fine. You can still take your guns on hunting trips. Just be aware and be careful. It would be a shame to develop your "perfect" hunting rifle and then rent someone else's gun when it was time to hunt.

 

[vlwtx348]

I appreciate the comment but I think I worded my response to @vlwtx348 too strongly. However, it really frustrates me seeing hunters putting information out there about their bad experience without asking what mistake they made. It discourages others from trying to take their rifles because they think it’s a hassle. If a hunter is getting harassed for small bribes in South Africa I think they should consider what they’ll do differently next time or why they were targeted when others weren’t. I’ve never been asked for a bribe in South Africa. Taking rifles there and through there is very easy.

I think that you have difficulty imagining a world other than the one *you* live in.
It really frustrates me to see people who weren't there, assume they know more about a situation.
The only error I could possibly have made was to use Infinto Safaris right before my trip out of JoBerg, but that's a whole different thread.

Lunch offer stands.

 

[375Fox]

I think that you have difficulty imagining a world other than the one *you* live in.
It really frustrates me to see people who weren't there, assume they know more about a situation.
The only error I could possibly have made was to use Infinto Safaris right before my trip out of JoBerg, but that's a whole different thread.

Lunch offer stands.

Problems will likely happen again to individuals who can’t accept they were part of the problem. Most hunters have zero problems and some attract problems. There is usually a reason.