Politics

This couldn't possibly be a canary in the coal mine moment could it?



IDK, An Italian moderate Dem winning in Long Island in a district he's already represented (and only left to run for governor), against someone who's basically brand new..... seems more like an "F it, I know what I'm getting with this guy" type vote.
 
This couldn't possibly be a canary in the coal mine moment could it?


No ground work in NY for early voting. How many times do R’s have to lose, before the party leaders get on board with early voting and vote harvesting where legal. The RNC said they were working on early voting, they have a long way to go with this result. But in fairness, the Winner did have the seat before which helped too.
 
IDK, An Italian moderate Dem winning in Long Island in a district he's already represented (and only left to run for governor), against someone who's basically brand new..... seems more like an "F it, I know what I'm getting with this guy" type vote.
No ground work in NY for early voting. How many times do R’s have to lose, before the party leaders get on board with early voting and vote harvesting where legal. The RNC said they were working on early voting, they have a long way to go with this result. But in fairness, the Winner did have the seat before which helped too.
Biden won by five - Santos won by five - Dems win by eight today. Probably means nothing.
 
Biden won by five - Santos won by five - Dems win by eight today. Probably means nothing.
This dude beat Santos in 2020, probably would've never left the seat if he didn't run for governor. I don't know Long Island politics but sometimes people just like a candidate. You'd be surprised how many "MAGA" voters in Virginia think extremely highly of L Douglas Wilder.
 
1707910458160.jpeg
 
Meanwhile back at the front, the Ukrainians sank another ship of the Black Sea fleet. The Tsezar Kunikov is a large landing ship of a class unique to the Russian Navy. They are currently used to transport military cargoes from places like Iran. One of these was sunk and another badly damaged earlier in the war.

ship2.jpg


The attack means was again high speed USVs (surface drones) each carrying a large explosive charge. As in the attack on the frigate a couple of weeks ago, the ship was swarmed by several. The video below shows the attack from the view of the remote operator. The final frames show the vessel sinking.

 
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Meanwhile back at the front, the Ukrainians sank another ship of the Black Sea fleet. The Tsezar Kunikov is a large landing ship of a class unique to the Russian Navy. They are currently used to transport military cargoes from places like Iran. One of these was sunk and another badly damaged earlier in the war.

View attachment 587272

The attack means was again high speed USVs (surface drones) each carrying a large explosive charge. As in the attack on the frigate a couple of weeks ago, the ship was swarmed by several. The video below shows the attack from the view of the remote operator. The final frames show the vessel sinking.


Being curious. These vessels don't have countermeasures against these drones, or it's incompetence on the part of the sailors/crews manning this equipment?
 
It takes a conviction in the Senate to remove someone impeached. It does not alter the fact that they were impeached.
Trump was impeached twice, the Senate did not convict and so he was not removed.

Same there here.
I fully understand the impeachment game , I heard from lindsy graham last night that if the dems in the senate stick together as they always do it won’t go to trial in the senate. They can just vote it down. Maybe I heard him wrong.
 
Being curious. These vessels don't have countermeasures against these drones, or it's incompetence on the part of the sailors/crews manning this equipment?
Competence or incompetence can be only judged if the vessel was without escort on a sea route. Landing ship in war operation must be escorted / protected. But we dont know this part.

Now about landing or ro ro vessels

Let me give a comment as deep sea master.
What I learn from the photo of the this ship class, and then double checked on internet, this class of vessel is built to transport cargo on wheels or trucks. It has a large collapsible cargo platform on the stern and similar system on the bow. The ship hul will open in port or on the beach, and vehicles will roll out.

In merchant navy, these would be most comparable to ro ro vessels, built to carry cars and trucks.

Generally, in order to keep buoyancy, ships, either navy or merchant have watertight compartments, those are first double hull, double bottom tanks, and secondly separate cargo compartments, plus compartmentalized accommodation (superstructure).

However, in practical terms, ro ro carriers, generally sink the most, having most issues with stability.
Cargo on wheels take to much space, there is a lot of unused space in the volume of cargo hold. There are problems to lash (secure) the cargo which can move during heavy rolling, and in case of flooding. In case fast moving operation is required the cars are not lashed, kept in cargo hold on a "hand brake".
Basically, you get a water ingress in a cargo hold, then a serious flood in a cargo hold, and cannot control the list, because cargo will move in the direction of first listing, and will not come back. Everything will end up on one side. Stability compromised.

Center cargo hold in roro is typical, but can be divided in vertical decks.
(ro ro means roll on roll off)

This is unlike the other ships, that can divide cargo holds, transversally, in at least 3 transferal compartments (port, stbd, center). and several compartments along the length of ship, depending of type.

Most probably, a navy vessel (built under different construction rules) - like frigate, or destroyer, will have even more compartments within the hull and superstructure (and will be much hareder to sink), but not a landing ship which is designed to deliver cargo on wheels or tracks, in a fast manner from one or two cargo decks, as a single compartment, most probably without division in cargo hold. (imagine 100 meters of ship cargo hull, full of water.)

Flooding of cargo compartment will move cargo on wheels (cars, trucks etc), ship will loose stability, and will likely capsize and then sink. Most vulnerable type of ship. (lloyd insurance will confirm, I am sure)

Example, photo from internet. Ro Ro, total loss. On this photo probably by this moment, all cargo on wheels is jammed on port side of vessels cargo holds, on 7 or 9 cargo decks. Cargo platform is on stern not visible on this photo. You can imagine that type of ship, being hit broad side with some explosive charge near water line?
1707917586772.png
 
Being curious. These vessels don't have countermeasures against these drones, or it's incompetence on the part of the sailors/crews manning this equipment?
Looks like the primary defensive systems are manned secondary armament on vessels of this class. In other words, machine guns and auto cannon fire (20-30mm). In some of the videos that have been posted one can see incoming rounds hitting the water. It is why swarm tactics are used. It overwhelms the limited means to engage such targets. The Russians have a close in defense system similar to the US Navy CIWS but it is not as widely deployed as CIWS. I doubt this ship is so equipped.

I am not sure how a US warship would do in a similar circumstance. The CIWIS system can engage multiple targets pretty quickly, but a swarm at close range would be a challenge. It was originally developed to take down incoming anti-ship missiles as a last line of defense. One did just that about a month ago. The radar can also acquire and engage surface targets. Essentially all US warships are equipped with them.

Hopefully one of our former navy members can chime in.

Phalanx_CIWS_USS_Jason_Dunham.jpg
 
Thank you, gents, for the explanation.

@Red Leg, I remember seeing the splashes on some of your previous videos, but I didn't see them on this one. That is why I was wondering if they had any at all. Seems like the Russian government has little value for the life of these pour souls and those in the military.
 
Competence or incompetence can be only judged if the vessel was without escort on a sea route. Landing ship in war operation must be escorted / protected. But we dont know this part.

Now about landing or ro ro vessels

Let me give a comment as deep sea master.
What I learn from the photo of the this ship class, and then double checked on internet, this class of vessel is built to transport cargo on wheels or trucks. It has a large collapsible cargo platform on the stern and similar system on the bow. The ship hul will open in port or on the beach, and vehicles will roll out.

In merchant navy, these would be most comparable to ro ro vessels, built to carry cars and trucks.

Generally, in order to keep buoyancy, ships, either navy or merchant have watertight compartments, those are first double hull, double bottom tanks, and secondly separate cargo compartments, plus compartmentalized accommodation (superstructure).

However, in practical terms, ro ro carriers, generally sink the most, having most issues with stability.
Cargo on wheels take to much space, there is a lot of unused space in the volume of cargo hold. There are problems to lash (secure) the cargo which can move during heavy rolling, and in case of flooding. In case fast moving operation is required the cars are not lashed, kept in cargo hold on a "hand brake".
Basically, you get a water ingress in a cargo hold, then a serious flood in a cargo hold, and cannot control the list, because cargo will move in the direction of first listing, and will not come back. Everything will end up on one side. Stability compromised.

Center cargo hold in roro is typical, but can be divided in vertical decks.
(ro ro means roll on roll off)

This is unlike the other ships, that can divide cargo holds, transversally, in at least 3 transferal compartments (port, stbd, center). and several compartments along the length of ship, depending of type.

Most probably, a navy vessel (built under different construction rules) - like frigate, or destroyer, will have even more compartments within the hull and superstructure (and will be much hareder to sink), but not a landing ship which is designed to deliver cargo on wheels or tracks, in a fast manner from one or two cargo decks, as a single compartment, most probably without division in cargo hold. (imagine 100 meters of ship cargo hull, full of water.)

Flooding of cargo compartment will move cargo on wheels (cars, trucks etc), ship will loose stability, and will likely capsize and then sink. Most vulnerable type of ship. (lloyd insurance will confirm, I am sure)

Example, photo from internet. Ro Ro, total loss. On this photo probably by this moment, all cargo on wheels is jammed on port side of vessels cargo holds, on 7 or 9 cargo decks. Cargo platform is on stern not visible on this photo. You can imagine that type of ship, being hit broad side with some explosive charge near water line?
View attachment 587283
Exactly correct. A ship like the Russian one would have no ability to counterflood, and a blast at the waterline would sink it pretty quickly. In the final frames of the video of the attack, the ship seems to be down at the stern and listing over on one side.
 
I am not sure how a US warship would do in a similar circumstance. The CIWIS system can engage multiple targets pretty quickly, but a swarm at close range would be a challenge. It was originally developed to take down incoming anti-ship missiles as a last line of defense. One did just that about a month ago. The radar can also acquire and engage surface targets. Essentially all US warships are equipped with them.

Hopefully one of our former navy members can chime in.

View attachment 587286
I am not sure how well even our CIWS would detect and track submersible drones.
Maybe CIWS will but...

CIWS was designed to detect, track, and destroy airborne threats such as incoming missiles.
Its two radars frequencies would be optimized for that. It looks like the transmitted frequency will be at least 10 ghz for the search radar. For higher accuracy the tracking radar may be in the 20 ghz range.

Searching at low angle across water will generate a lot of false target returns especially with those frequencies. New software optimized to detect and track submersibles might correct that. A sonar based defensive weapon would seem most feasible for submersible threats.

The above is all observation and theory.
 
I am not sure how well even our CIWS would detect and track submersible drones.
Maybe CIWS will but...

CIWS was designed to detect, track, and destroy airborne threats such as incoming missiles.
Its two radars frequencies would be optimized for that. It looks like the transmitted frequency will be at least 10 ghz for the search radar. For higher accuracy the tracking radar may be in the 20 ghz range.

Searching at low angle across water will generate a lot of false target returns especially with those frequencies. New software optimized to detect and track submersibles might correct that. A sonar based defensive weapon would seem most feasible for submersible threats.

The above is all observation and theory.
CIWIS would be useless against a submersible of any type as far as I know. These Ukrainian vessels are USVs (unmanned surface vessels). They are something of a hybrid between small boat and a jet ski. They should be detectable by the CIWIS radar. The problem would be a swarm coming from multiple angles and getting inside the line of depression prior to being engaged.

1668389807944.jpeg
 
During Desert Storm aboard USS Tripoli, I stood up mine watches and machine gun crews on the ships .50 caliber and my units M-60 7.62mm. The gun crews were for defense against close in small boats. Oh, the mine watch was for floating mines the broke their mores (tethers).

Even .50 or 12.7mm projectiles might ricochet off the water when shooting at a submersible. If it were me, I'd employ 14.5mm guns with a combination of high explosive incendiary and armor piercing incendiary tracer ammo. I'd also want my best gunners on watch.

As for swarms of anything, there is always one more threat to eliminate...
 

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