Politics

The analysis here paints a pretty poor picture.


Germany has been underinvesting in its military for decades now.

“During the time of the ‘peace dividend’, Germany’s military capabilities decreased dramatically, to the point where the Bundeswehr “more or less stands bare,” according to German Army Inspector Alfons Mais, in February 2022 when Russia started its full-scale invasion of Ukraine. German military savings in the last three decades are estimated at €400 billion to €600 billion (Bardt, 2018; Röhl et al, 2023).

These considerable savings were associated with sharp reductions in military stock. By 2021, Germany had around 340 tanks, or just 8 percent of the more than 4000 West German tanks it had in 1992 and 14 percent of the 2400 tanks it had in 2004. The number of howitzers fell from more than 3000 in 1992 to almost 1000 in 2004 and a mere 120 in 2021. Similar numbers apply for other weapon systems. Even for the fighter jets that NATO puts significant emphasis on, numbers came down by more than 50 percent.

After this long period of disarmament, German capacities have only increased marginally since the 2022 invasion of Ukraine. In Wolff et al (2024a), we show it will take decades for Germany’s military stocks to reach 2004 levels at current procurement rates: 10 years for combat aircraft, 40 years for tanks and 100 years for howitzers. In comparison, it would take Russia only two to seven months to produce 2021 levels of Bundeswehr stocks.

German orders rose meaningfully only after July 2023 – a long delay compared to the swift Russian commitment in autumn 2022 to reinforce its weapons industry. The number of orders has now risen but the proportion of orders without a fixed delivery date has also risen, suggesting growing delays and production backlogs. And numbers remain relatively small. For example, only 22 howitzers have been ordered, a number so low that it does not compensate for the larger numbers of howitzers committed to Ukraine and pales relative to Russia’s monthly production of 38. For the main battle tank, the Leopard 2, it took until July 2024 to place more than the replacement order of 18 tanks. The 105 Leopard 2 ordered in July are only expected to be fully delivered by 2030.”

I remember when Russia invaded there was a BBC report stating if the conflict escalated that many of the NATO EU nations would have less than 2 weeks worth of munitions on hand to fight the Russians.

There are only two explanations for this......

1. Incompetence
2. These nations have relied on the USA for security for so long they lost touch with reality.

I also remember Germany laughing at Trump when he told them not to rely on Russia for natural gas.......
 
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ok.. lets use Norway as an example...

while Norway did in fact increase its defense spending over the last few years (spurned to do so by Trump 45).. it still falls short.. 2023 spending was 1.6073 GDP..


the larger point remains the same...

conservatives justify their position that the EU has abused its position with the US based on tariff inequality, defense spending, ukraine spending, etc..etc..

whether that's the shared opinion of the EU.. or liberals (not currently in power), etc.. isn't of consequence..

Unless the EU is willing to do something to convince the current US administration and the American people at large that it is not taking advantage of its relationship with the US.. then the US under its current administration will continue to take actions that it feels moves the relationship in a manner that best suits the US's overarching strategic goals and objectives..

If all the EU wants to do is scream orange man bad.. absolutely nothing is going to change.. if they want to scream "the economy will collapse" but do nothing other than complain.. absolutely nothing is going to change.. if they want to will ill upon the US and do nothing other than attempt to throw shade... absolutely nothing is going to change...

they have a choice to make..

negotiate (in their own interest.. as they always have in the past)...

or suffer the consequences of not negotiating..

saying "the US will suffer too!" once again does nothing to change anything.. clearly the current administration is willing to take that chance...

so EU.. the ball is in your court... what are you going to do about it other than bitch and moan?
With regards to defense I feel that Europe is finally waking up like I wrote previously. It seems to be a general feeling that the US under Trump can not be relied on in a conflict, and as a resultat european leaders finally has started to work on an alternative solution. The main problem here beeing that everything moves so slowly but I truly believe that Europe can manage on its own provided that european leaders make the right decisions and indeed invest in our own defense without factoring in an US response that very well might not come.

The tariffs and subsequent trade wars I think will hurt both players a lot and probably the only country that truly will gain from it in the long run is China who probably is looking forward to step in to fill the void buying at a discount like they now do with russian oil.
 
Interesting commentary of Germany and their intentions should hard economic times strike, from the son of governor General of nazi occupied Poland Hanz Frank.

 
I remember when Russia invaded there was a BBC report stating if the conflict escalated that many of the NATO EU nations would have less than 2 weeks worth of munitions on hand to fight the Russians.

There are only two explanations for this......

1. Incompetence
2. These nations have relied on the USA for security for so long they lost touch with reality.
I have heard that aswell and it was probably true at the time. In Sweden we talk a lot about we beeing peace damaged...ie have been at peace for to long. I guess this is true for most of Europe.
 
I also read that there is a kill switch in the F35 that US has full control over.
I think even a US pilot would refuse to fly in a plane with a kill switch that could be activated externally. I could just imagine a scenario where a Chealsea Manning type activates it during a mission they disagree with.
 
I think even a US pilot would refuse to fly in a plane with a kill switch that could be activated externally. I could just imagine a scenario where a Chealsea Manning type activates it during a mission they disagree with.
If its true it is more something like the plane having to get updated every day, requiring a connection with Lockheeds main frame. It might very well be an urban legend the whole thing.
 
With regards to defense I feel that Europe is finally waking up like I wrote previously. It seems to be a general feeling that the US under Trump can not be relied on in a conflict, and as a resultat european leaders finally has started to work on an alternative solution. The main problem here beeing that everything moves so slowly but I truly believe that Europe can manage on its own provided that european leaders make the right decisions and indeed invest in our own defense without factoring in an US response that very well might not come.

The tariffs and subsequent trade wars I think will hurt both players a lot and probably the only country that truly will gain from it in the long run is China who probably is looking forward to step in to fill the void buying at a discount like they now do with russian oil.
I think you and I are likely very much in agreement..

I can absolutely understand the EU and the individual European countries perspective.. this is a really big change.. and not all of it is good for the EU/Countries..

and I absolutely agree that a trade war hurts everyone.... winning a trade war isn't unlike winning a military war.. you're going to experience some measure of pain and take some casualties no matter which side you are on.. the winner is simply defined by who loses the least.. but everyone is taking some loses..

which is why I think its important that the EU and the US start doing more talking, and stop doing so much bitching and complaining...

we don't have to agree on everything... we don't even have to actually like each other... all we have to do is determine what the EU thinks its strategic interests are and what its priorities are, and determine the same thing for the US... then see how we can get those strategic interests and priorities to align.. or negotiate the best path between the two if they arent aligned..

crying over spilt milk never solved the problem or cleaned up the mess..
 
I think even a US pilot would refuse to fly in a plane with a kill switch that could be activated externally. I could just imagine a scenario where a Chealsea Manning type activates it during a mission they disagree with.

If onstar can shut off your stolen GM vehicle via satellite; you can bet your ass the U.S. would have the same capability with something as lethal as exported military hardware.
 
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I think you and I are likely very much in agreement..

I can absolutely understand the EU and the individual European countries perspective.. this is a really big change.. and not all of it is good for the EU/Countries..

and I absolutely agree that a trade war hurts everyone.... winning a trade war isn't unlike winning a military war.. you're going to experience some measure of pain and take some casualties no matter which side you are on.. the winner is simply defined by who loses the least.. but everyone is taking some loses..

which is why I think its important that the EU and the US start doing more talking, and stop doing so much bitching and complaining...

we don't have to agree on everything... we don't even have to actually like each other... all we have to do is determine what the EU thinks its strategic interests are and what its priorities are, and determine the same thing for the US... then see how we can get those strategic interests and priorities to align.. or negotiate the best path between the two if they arent aligned..

crying over spilt milk never solved the problem or cleaned up the mess..

But the fact remains...it is Trump who started this toll race. You ask for EU and the US to talk/negotiate..but the fact is that Trump, onesidedly today, announced a 25% toll on EU goods
 
Trump started it?

Thats a ridiculous and completely uninformed statement.

What Trump has said is he isn't going to tolerate trade inequality anymore..

It started when the first tariff was imposed.. you do realize that the EU has imposed tariffs and VAT against US goods since its inception don't you?

Trump is now responding to EU tariffs that overall significantly outweigh current US tariffs, and have for decades.



once again, lets go back to your own words.. you believe tolls are a sand that harm the machine of commerce...

if you indeed believe that is true, why doesn't Norway fix the problem and simply stop putting sand into the US commerce machine? Trump has said he is not going to issue tariffs against countries that don't tariff US goods.. so, drop your tariffs, and the US drops its threat of tariffs..

If you think its ok that norway puts sand into the US machine, how can you complain that the US is now saying its going to do the same thing to Norway?
 
Trump started it?

Thats a ridiculous and completely uninformed statement.

What Trump has said is he isn't going to tolerate trade inequality anymore..

It started when the first tariff was imposed..

Trump is now responding to EU tariffs that overall significantly outweigh current US tariffs, and have for decades.



once again, lets go back to your own words.. you believe tolls are a sand that harm the machine of commerce...

if you indeed believe that is true, why doesn't Norway fix the problem and simply stop putting sand into the US commerce machine? Trump has said he is not going to issue tariffs against countries that don't tariff US goods.. so, drop your tariffs, and the US drops its threat of tariffs..

If you think its ok that norway puts sand into the US machine, how can you complain that the US is now saying its going to do the same thing to Norway?

The toll tariffs from EU to the US are low.. Now Trump out of the blue smack 25% on the table..That is starting a trade war.. For the record, Norway is not a member of the EU..

But cant you see the greater implications here, beyond the economics..? USA are loosing old friends by the hour with Trumps policies.. Many decades of trade and mutual military cooperation (NATO) out the window..

You MAGA people are beyond me..
 
But the fact remains...it is Trump who started this toll race. You ask for EU and the US to talk/negotiate..but the fact is that Trump, onesidedly today, announced a 25% toll on EU goods
So what were the EU tariffs on USA made goods before Trump raised them?

"The toll tariffs from EU to the US are low.. Now Trump out of the blue smack 25% on the table..That is starting a trade war.."

I mean if you are going to complain and logically convey your point of view, surely you would want to start with how things were "unfair" for the EU before Trump........

I'll help you out - EU tariff on USA auto = 10% vs. the USA tariff on EU autos = 2.5%

So you say that EU having 300% HIGHER tariff amount on USA auto imports is low?

"But cant you see the greater implications here, beyond the economics..? USA are loosing old friends by the hour with Trumps policies.."
I'm sure it will ruin old "friendships" but if friendships are based solely on exploiting your friends then by definition...... you are not a friend you are a parasite relying on the one sided relationship with your host.

"You MAGA people are beyond me.." I'm sure this new found behavior of not letting the EU screw over the USA is perplexing to you; my best advice is to hold on tight and get ready for the remaining 3 years and 11 months of Trumps presidency.
 
Define "low"

Ernst and Young, one of the largest accounting audit firms on the planet disagrees with you


Of course Trump started with a blanket 25%.. that surprises you? if it does you clearly have not been paying any attention..

Go buy his book.. read it.. maybe then you'll understand.. he told you over 35 years ago EXACTLY how he negotiates..

Its $11 in paperback.. hurry up and buy it now while your euros are still worth something :D


FWIW, once again you demonstrate that you are uninformed and have little to no situational awareness.. that you are motivated by emotion rather than fact..

Calling me a MAGA is like me calling you a Mozambiquan.. frankly, stupid...

Ive actually been critical of Trump on numerous occasions (as recently as this week if you bothered to actually read something.. and am very much more a centrist than I am a right winger.. the more right wing members here can attest Ive had plenty of debate with them on more than a few occasions as well.. Im also much more aligned with libertarians in this country than I am republicans.. the libertarian party simply hasn't been able to put a POTUS candidate worth voting for in my lifetime..

The simple fact is, I don't suffer fools well.. no matter their origin, nationality, politics, etc...

You whine, bitch, complain, and moan about the position the EU has found itself in.. but refuse to acknowledge the EU's role in any of it and refuse to offer any meaningful or thought out solution..

here in the US we call that being a cry baby.. Im not sure what the Norwegian term for it would be..

you make statements like "we'll see".. yep.. we agree.. we'll certainly see...

one thing economists on both the left and right will agree on (they don't agree on much) is the US economy is in a much better position to survive the pains of a trade war than the EU economy..

so.. we're back to the same thing that's already been said numerous times today...

its the EU's move... they have some decisions to make... crying isn't changing anything... either negotiate.. or don't.. either choice has a consequence..
 
You swallow Trump´s narrative raw..that the rest of the world exploit USA.. Lets see how this will play out in the long run..

And militarily it is of little importance if you live in the midwest..but we have a border against Russia..

I can assure you that Russia - China - Iran empty champagne in cupious amounts these days..
 
The toll tariffs from EU to the US are low.. Now Trump out of the blue smack 25% on the table..That is starting a trade war.. For the record, Norway is not a member of the EU..

But cant you see the greater implications here, beyond the economics..? USA are loosing old friends by the hour with Trumps policies.. Many decades of trade and mutual military cooperation (NATO) out the window..

You MAGA people are beyond me..

I have concerns with tariffs but it’s important to. It’s he has threatened 25%. No tariffs have actually been implemented.
 
I repeat.. reading is fundamental.. and actually knowing what you are talking about it pretty important too...

scan back a few pages.. just this week I was discussing the flaws in the way Trump is handling the crisis in Ukraine (my opinion)....

regarding sharing a border with Russia... don't you think the time to consider that quandary was decades ago? or perhaps if you're really slow to the punch maybe 2016 when Trump was threatening to pull the US out of NATO if the other NATO nations didn't start pulling their weight? or maybe if you're really really slow to figure things out maybe 6 months ago when it started looking like there was a very good chance Trump was going to become the President of the US again?

Norways defense spending is barely 1.6% of GDP.. NATO requires 2%...

but you want to bemoan your problem with sharing a border with Russia?
 
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The toll tariffs from EU to the US are low.. Now Trump out of the blue smack 25% on the table..That is starting a trade war.. For the record, Norway is not a member of the EU..

But cant you see the greater implications here, beyond the economics..? USA are loosing old friends by the hour with Trumps policies.. Many decades of trade and mutual military cooperation (NATO) out the window..

You MAGA people are beyond me..

I can’t believe you just called this gentleman MAGA, which I assume means that he approves of every word that comes out of the President’s mouth. Mdwest is one of the most balanced and knowledgeable members of this forum.
 
"NATO is probably the reason the Ukraine war started.." Donald Trump

Care to comment on that..?
 

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