Politics

Actually hasn’t been long since the marines voiced their concerns
Thanks....hadn't read that.....still the question of morale was not really addressed.
 
On Bret Baer tonight, Trey Gowdy was pretty adamant that Gaetz won’t get senate confirmation. So it will be interesting to see if Desantis selects Gaetz to fill Rubio’s senate seat. If not, Gaetz becomes an unemployed, formerly useful idiot.
Gaetz resigned from the 118th congress and was elected to the 119th congress. Will he be sworn in or does resignation from one mean resign from both?
 
Ok....I ask this question based on no combat experience during my military time. I am pleased with Gabbard's appointment as I pretty much agree with her views and she presents and articulates her beliefs well....that will be a big plus to conservatives. What about the argument of "morale" with women on the front lines. I'm talking about the potential of jealously among males, jealous wives back home, and the tendency for men to "protect the girl" creating potential poor judgement by male combat troops. Women in combat is proven by the Israelis so it must have merit.....do my questions have any merit? The Marines use to be very much against it......but that was decades ago.

What about the argument of "morale" with women on the front lines.

Fact are Facts......not every female nor every male belongs in a "frontline assault combat unit." But those days have long past. Combat action is now 360°. And all units can now be considered "combat" units.

The days of uniform vs uniform warfare has become military uniform vs terrorists, extremists, anti-whatever using whatever weapons they can get their hands on or can expediently conjure up to demoralize those fighting against them.

Lessons learned from Vietnam:

Vietnamese women rigged booby traps gave those devises to their children to kill US soldiers. Vietnamese women rigged themselves with explosives to get in close to kill US soldiers.

Terrorists, extremists, anti-whatever, have adopted and expanded the use of expedient explosive devices and use of suicide bombers to attack and kill US soldiers.

These same groups have no qualms in who they attack as long as their objective is met and that is to demoralize and kill Americans and any other nationalities they deem against their evil cause.

I'm talking about the potential of jealously among males, jealous wives back home,

add girlfriend/"girlfriend", boyfriend/"boyfriend", and husband/"husband".

This is an irrelevant. As this isn’t just a military problem. It's a soceital problem. Especially in America.

IIRC it was in the mid to late 1970's or early 1980's it was estimated that 50% of all marriages ended in divorce. And a break down as to highest to lowest percentages of those getting divorced: marriages less than 2 years, 2-4 years, etc., with the 10 -15 years of marriage having the lowest divorce rate. And finances was the number one reason for divorce. Military having the lowest wage pay scale.

Then the history of queers in the military being Section 8: to Tolerance; to Don't Ask, Don't Tell; to it's acceptable within limits; to being open.

And with that said.
......the tendency for men to "protect the girl" creating potential poor judgement by male combat troops.

In today's military who's the "protect the girl" creating potential for poor judgement?

Women in combat is proven by the Isrealis so it must have merit.

It does have merit. Once American society gets over the "women are fragile/frail" mentality.

Why deprive women of testing themselves in combat?

Why deprive women to prove themselves equal to or better than men?

Why deprive women the opportunity to earn the same awards and advancement as men?

Isreali women and men, "so rumor has it; and from my understanding"; I can neither confirm nor deny....They treat each other as equals. Their "code" is simple: First they respect each other as individuals, as soldiers, and competent equals.

Same for the Russians military men and women.

Which the American mentality is: So Ignorant! So Blinded! and So unwilling to accept! such possible concepts; that female soldiers, Not All, but those that choose and are willing to commit to the challenge and in the end can out preform the male stereo type;

UGH...I personally want to rip out their male Freaken throats out, because they can't accept a woman is more capable of doing "a job" that their male ego lacks in the ability to preform.
 
Fact are Facts......not every female nor every male belongs in a "frontline assault combat unit." But those days have long past. Combat action is now 360°. And all units can now be considered "combat" units.

The days of uniform vs uniform warfare has become military uniform vs terrorists, extremists, anti-whatever using whatever weapons they can get their hands on or can expediently conjure up to demoralize those fighting against them.

Lessons learned from Vietnam:

Vietnamese women rigged booby traps gave those devises to their children to kill US soldiers. Vietnamese women rigged themselves with explosives to get in close to kill US soldiers.

Terrorists, extremists, anti-whatever, have adopted and expanded the use of expedient explosive devices and use of suicide bombers to attack and kill US soldiers.

These same groups have no qualms in who they attack as long as their objective is met and that is to demoralize and kill Americans and any other nationalities they deem against their evil cause.



add girlfriend/"girlfriend", boyfriend/"boyfriend", and husband/"husband".

This is an irrelevant. As this isn’t just a military problem. It's a soceital problem. Especially in America.

IIRC it was in the mid to late 1970's or early 1980's it was estimated that 50% of all marriages ended in divorce. And a break down as to highest to lowest percentages of those getting divorced: marriages less than 2 years, 2-4 years, etc., with the 10 -15 years of marriage having the lowest divorce rate. And finances was the number one reason for divorce. Military having the lowest wage pay scale.

Then the history of queers in the military being Section 8: to Tolerance; to Don't Ask, Don't Tell; to it's acceptable within limits; to being open.

And with that said.


In today's military who's the "protect the girl" creating potential for poor judgement?



It does have merit. Once American society gets over the "women are fragile/frail" mentality.

Why deprive women of testing themselves in combat?

Why deprive women to prove themselves equal to or better than men?

Why deprive women the opportunity to earn the same awards and advancement as men?

Isreali women and men, "so rumor has it; and from my understanding"; I can neither confirm nor deny....They treat each other as equals. Their "code" is simple: First they respect each other as individuals, as soldiers, and competent equals.

Same for the Russians military men and women.

Which the American mentality is: So Ignorant! So Blinded! and So unwilling to accept! such possible concepts; that female soldiers, Not All, but those that choose and are willing to commit to the challenge and in the end can out preform the male stereo type;

UGH...I personally want to rip out their male Freaken throats out, because they can't accept a woman is more capable of doing "a job" that their male ego lacks in the ability to preform.
Agree wholeheartedly. Male ego being the key word and cause of all the problems. I served with many women who could and did put many men to shame administratively and in the field. Give them the tools and opportunity and they will get the job done--as well or better than a lot of men.
 
I see it as a binary outcome. They will either be wildly successful and create real lasting change, or they will bog down and fail miserably. I personally think that DOGE has tremendous potential. The federal administration has continued to bloat for decades. It will take something this radical to reverse the trend.

You are absolutely correct that the changes will have to be legislated. Elon et al are going to have to be backed by a serious lobbying effort to implement the opportunities they identify. I for one wish them great success!

Musk and Rivak can not write policy, enforce law. But!! They can shine a white hot spot light on who, where and when. Then others do the police work. Or the public creates such fuss the enforcement arm has to act.

Some still remember the infamous toilet seat and the hammer prices from the 80s.

Well now they have X to post these inefficient, incompetent, ineffective agencies or bureaucrats on. It will certainly do more than nothing. And more than we have now.
 
Fact are Facts......not every female nor every male belongs in a "frontline assault combat unit." But those days have long past. Combat action is now 360°. And all units can now be considered "combat" units.

The days of uniform vs uniform warfare has become military uniform vs terrorists, extremists, anti-whatever using whatever weapons they can get their hands on or can expediently conjure up to demoralize those fighting against them.

Lessons learned from Vietnam:

Vietnamese women rigged booby traps gave those devises to their children to kill US soldiers. Vietnamese women rigged themselves with explosives to get in close to kill US soldiers.

Terrorists, extremists, anti-whatever, have adopted and expanded the use of expedient explosive devices and use of suicide bombers to attack and kill US soldiers.

These same groups have no qualms in who they attack as long as their objective is met and that is to demoralize and kill Americans and any other nationalities they deem against their evil cause.



add girlfriend/"girlfriend", boyfriend/"boyfriend", and husband/"husband".

This is an irrelevant. As this isn’t just a military problem. It's a soceital problem. Especially in America.

IIRC it was in the mid to late 1970's or early 1980's it was estimated that 50% of all marriages ended in divorce. And a break down as to highest to lowest percentages of those getting divorced: marriages less than 2 years, 2-4 years, etc., with the 10 -15 years of marriage having the lowest divorce rate. And finances was the number one reason for divorce. Military having the lowest wage pay scale.

Then the history of queers in the military being Section 8: to Tolerance; to Don't Ask, Don't Tell; to it's acceptable within limits; to being open.

And with that said.


In today's military who's the "protect the girl" creating potential for poor judgement?



It does have merit. Once American society gets over the "women are fragile/frail" mentality.

Why deprive women of testing themselves in combat?

Why deprive women to prove themselves equal to or better than men?

Why deprive women the opportunity to earn the same awards and advancement as men?

Isreali women and men, "so rumor has it; and from my understanding"; I can neither confirm nor deny....They treat each other as equals. Their "code" is simple: First they respect each other as individuals, as soldiers, and competent equals.

Same for the Russians military men and women.

Which the American mentality is: So Ignorant! So Blinded! and So unwilling to accept! such possible concepts; that female soldiers, Not All, but those that choose and are willing to commit to the challenge and in the end can out preform the male stereo type;

UGH...I personally want to rip out their male Freaken throats out, because they can't accept a woman is more capable of doing "a job" that their male ego lacks in the ability to preform.
We’re ripping throats out now, eh? Combat is a man’s job. For obvious reasons. Allowing women in combat is an obvious sign of degradation in society at large. Similar to repealing don’t ask don’t tell. Under Obama also. Slippery slope of wokeness in the military, the beginnings of it.

Old but interesting article:
 
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I hear Kari Lake would be available for that every two years.:E Dancing:
Understandable, Lake is the antithesis of many of the personal values of the commiefornians who have invaded AZ the last 20-30 years. After all, her platform for both runs was centered around- family values, pro-life, control of the border, pro-Trump and the economy. Additionally, how dare she question voting irregularities that plagued Maricopa Co. Severe problems that surpessed voting in huge numbers. All witnessed and documented in real time.
 
We’re ripping throats out now, eh? Combat is a man’s job. For obvious reasons. Allowing women in combat is an obvious sign of degradation in society at large. Similar to repealing don’t ask don’t tell. Under Obama also. Slippery slope of wokeness in the military, the beginnings of it.

Old but interesting article:
Have you served in the armed forces with women? Just curious the basis of your certainty.
 
Have you served in the armed forces with women? Just curious the basis of your certainty.
No I have not. Pretty sure we’ve been over this before and you already know that so your question is disingenuous to begin with so please get to the point. From what I’ve seen there are plenty of current and ex servicemen who share my opinion so my lack of service is a moot point. We’re just re-hashing the same old arguments at this point.
 
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Understandable, Lake is the antithesis of many of the personal values of the commiefornians who have invaded AZ the last 20-30 years. After all, her platform for both runs was centered around- family values, pro-life, control of the border, pro-Trump and the economy. Additionally, how dare she question voting irregularities that plagued Maricopa Co. Severe problems that surpessed voting in huge numbers. All witnessed and documented in real time.
I don’t know. There was a full 8 point difference between Trump and Lake in the AZ election this year. I assume 8% of the commufornians didn’t vote for Trump. This is Deja vu all over again from the last election for her. It was Trump supporters who caused her to lose then and again now.
 
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If we're going to go on having this conversation, I think it's important to define and lay out what military roles we are actually talking about.

If women want administrative roles, to fly aircraft, be MP's, want to poke some buttons or pull some triggers well behind combat lines, sure go ahead I guess.

But for the faults and strengths of both sexes, women definitely do not belong in heavy front line combat roles. Of this I am certain.
 
No I have not. Pretty sure we’ve been over this before and you already know that so your question is disingenuous to begin with so please get to the point. From what I’ve seen there are plenty of current and ex servicemen who share my opinion so my lack of service is a mute point.
I truly don’t remember. But you are discussing the issue with several veterans here who disagree with that position. Then again, perhaps it is inappropriate to bring up our actual experiences with regard to this subject - I do remember that.
 
If women want administrative roles, to fly aircraft, be MP's, want to poke some buttons or pull some triggers well behind combat lines, sure go ahead I guess.

But for the faults and strengths of both sexes, women definitely do not belong in heavy front line combat roles. Of this I am certain.
Is there a “heavy front line” in today’s armed forces where one fixes bayonets and charges up to take the hill?
Rangers etc. already have pretty stringent physical requirements as well as the specialist forces in each branch.
 
I truly don’t remember. But you are discussing the issue with several veterans here who disagree with that position. Then again, perhaps it is inappropriate to bring up our actual experiences with regard to this subject - I do remember that.
And I would wager that there’s either no consensus on the matter among veterans or active duty or the consensus is the opposite of what you would like it to be. You remember that do you? I do not so please refresh my memory.
 
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Is there a “heavy front line” in today’s armed forces where one fixes bayonets and charges up to take the hill?
Rangers etc. already have pretty stringent physical requirements as well as the specialist forces in each branch.
You ask that when in this very thread there have been videos of trench warfare posted..
 
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If we're going to go on having this conversation, I think it's important to define and lay out what military roles we are actually talking about.

If women want administrative roles, to fly aircraft, be MP's, want to poke some buttons or pull some triggers well behind combat lines, sure go ahead I guess.

But for the faults and strengths of both sexes, women definitely do not belong in heavy front line combat roles. Of this I am certain.
I think most of us would absolutely agree with that. Several years ago, the Army was directed to make all combat MOSs open to qualified women. That aspiration seems to be pretty self-regulating thus far. As I said, breaking track, pulling a pack, or rucking in body armor is not for the frail. Very, very few women have shown any real interest in the opportunity.

But that does not mean they are not in "combat" roles, particularly in the age of loitering munitions (drones), GPS guided missiles, and shoulder fired air defense weapons. For instance, women have been very successful in the medical MOSs. Treating and evacuating wounded personnel on and from the battlefield is a very dangerous role. Firing rocket launchers such as the HIMARS, puts women on board one of the highest value targets on the battlefield. So does flying an apache, F-16, or F-18.

I think if we can keep the debate to the practical value add of women in the services then an eventual roles consensus will emerge.
 

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