Politics

[PARA45]

Well I’m a Trump voter, I support Ukraine, and I believe that most I know feel the same. I know that is anecdotal, but I pray that it is a wider held position than you believe. Our interests extend beyond our borders!

I'm also a Trump voter (3 time), and I also support only military aid to Ukraine.

 

[BSO Dave]

Well I’m a Trump voter, I support Ukraine, and I believe that most I know feel the same. I know that is anecdotal, but I pray that it is a wider held position than you believe. Our interests extend beyond our borders!

Do you support unconditional support to Ukraine meaning no funding limits, no strategy to ensure Ukraine's victory, or at least declaration of what defines a peaceful end to the war?

 

[BSO Dave]

What will it take to convince you..? New death camps..?

See, now this is the kind of crazy shit that destroys the credibility of almost every liberal argument...

 

[Certus]

The Russian propagandist emerges again! It must be an odd state in which to dwell as a blindly supportive follower of one of the more murderous dictators and regimes of the 21st century. Then again, you may have some allies participating in this discussion.

I am offering my operational and strategic assessments based upon a lifetime as a professional soldier. You will pardon me if I find your analysis and opinions trying to explain three years of abject Russian military failure as little more than a form of copium.

Russia is indeed approaching a million total casualties in this war. Your hero hiding behind the walls of the Kremlin has scoured Russia's subject peoples, his prisons, the African continent, and even gone on his knees to North Korea to keep from involving the Dutchy of Moscow in this 36 month catastrophe. Perhaps they will awaken eventually as they did during Afghanistan. Or, perhaps, the new American administration will throw Putin a lifeline. Whatever happens, it will be nothing that Russian arms were able to resolve.

I am absolutely certain that had adequate levels of armor been available two years ago it would have made a tremendous difference in exploiting the victory in Kharkiv Oblast as the Russians mob was fleeing headlong in defeat. It would be a game changer even now as Russian generals unimaginably launch attacks with drabs and dribbles of barely trained men riding into battle on Chinese golf carts. I know of no respected professional soldier in the West that hasn't come to view the Russian military - army, air force, or navy - with anything but professional disdain. Isn't it even a little curious to someone like you that the mighty Russian war machine can't even eject Ukrainian forces from Kursk?

Moreover, you are so blinded by your loyalty and voluntary ignorance that you can't even realize you are actually making my point. The truth is that this rag tag Ukrainian Army, led by this pathetic President in a T-shirt, drawing on a population one fourth the size of "mighty" Russia, has brought that nation's military to an absolute standstill for three years. That rag tag assembly of troops without adequate modern combat systems has utterly destroyed Russia's pre-war modernized ground forces, driven the Black Sea Fleet from the Black Sea, and driven Russian air power from the Ukrainian air skies. Those are undisputable facts. Pretty amazing for the pathetic force described in the articles in which you try find solace. I wonder what comfort the wives, parents, and children of Putin's mad sacrifices will find as the scale of this fiasco gradually becomes known.

Not having a go but do you ever think you may be the one deep into propaganda?
It goes both ways, truths what neither of you are saying or think (most likely).

 

[Red Leg]

Interesting that you bring this up...

Hitler and the Nazis ruined the concepts of any outright displays of patriotism and populism in Germany, and throughout much of the European Continent out of both fear and guilt of embracing such ideologies. It's understandable I guess, but I also think it directly facilitated Europe's surge to the left post-WW2. Fear of repeating an undesirable outcome often creates an overcorrection in the opposite direction...

Given the realized costs of embracing socialism and far-left cultural ideologies, it's not surprising that populism is making a comeback in many parts of Europe. It's also not surprising that those Europeans still embracing the guilt and fear are making the same BS "threat to democracy" claims along with the analogies to Hitler that we heard here in the USA for the last 8 years... End of the world doom propaganda is all the left has when they cannot defend their failed policies, and it seems that more and more Europeans are waking up to that...

I think there absolutely is something to that assessment. It is particularly true in Germany. Trying to express pride in being German is very difficult with the Nazi albatross hanging around one's neck. The sad thing is that in the seventies through middle eighties, West Germany was rebounding dramatically. The German Army was the most modern in Europe, it was at least as well trained as the French and British, and better equipped.

The collapse of the Berlin wall, and the necessity to assimilate East Germany with two generations of Germans socialized to the communist system put enormous stress on Germany politically, culturally, and economically. Then Andrea Merkel wandered onto the stage and carried out a fairly radical redefinition of socialism in the country. Her efforts and results inevitably became of interest to the socialists in this country. Meanwhile little things like national defense were allowed to atrophy, and the US defense umbrella was indeed an enabler.

What I find astounding about the radical right in Germany, last century or this one, is its abiding fascination with Russia. It is hard to imagine a political movement the Russian ruling class would more quickly eradicate given an opportunity.

 

[Red Leg]

Not having a go but do you ever think you may be the one deep into propaganda?
It goes both ways, truths what neither of you are saying or think (most likely).

No, I do not.

What is your trade or profession? I assume you consider yourself as pretty good at it? Have any issues when someone is clueless on the subject, but opines how they would do it or how you should think about it?

I was very good at mine.

 

[Pondoro]

See, now this is the kind of crazy shit that destroys the credibility of almost every liberal argument...

Maybe so..but unfortunately, these AfD politicians, under their well dressed apperance, they are nothing but neo-naziish thugs..

 

[BSO Dave]

What I find astounding about the radical right in Germany, last century or this one, is its abiding fascination with Russia. It is hard to imagine a political movement the Russian ruling class would more quickly eradicate given an opportunity.

This is new and interesting... Do you happen to know the specifics in their fascination with Russia?

 

[BSO Dave]

Maybe so..but unfortunately, these AfD politicians, under their well dressed apperance, they are nothing but neo-naziish thugs..

For your sake, I sincerely hope that it turns out to be nothing more than hyperbole and fear mongering from the left...

More than half of the U.S. population, myself included, have been accused of being Nazis by democrats, so I please forgive my justified skepticism...

 

[Red Leg]

Do you support unconditional support to Ukraine meaning no funding limits, no strategy to ensure Ukraine's victory, or at least declaration of what defines a peaceful end to the war?

I won't speak for @WAB, but no I certainly do not. One thing our leadership has lacked from the start of the invasion is a clear strategy how to conduct and conclude it on terms favorable to the US, NATO, and Ukraine. And yes those are three separate sets of interests.

Best I could tell, Jake Sullivan had no idea what he was doing, and orchestrated a support commitment from NATO that kept Ukraine in the war without creating the risk, in his mind if no one else's, of Russia actually losing it.

This is new and interesting... Do you happen to know the specifics in their fascination with Russia?

In the thirties it was pretty clear. The Soviet Union allowed Germany to train and recreate its armed forces within its borders and outside the limitations of the Versailles Treaty. As you remember the USSR even cooperated in the invasion and dismemberment of Poland.

Now, I suspect it is the allure of strong central leadership. I would suggest that motivates some of the Putin apologists in this country.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

What I find astounding about the radical right in Germany, last century or this one, is its abiding fascination with Russia. It is hard to imagine a political movement the Russian ruling class would more quickly eradicate given an opportunity.

Radical right Germans, Russian imperialists, dictators, despots, narcissist fascists and whatever else we may refer to them as, their end goals are much the same, power and control.

Some think Trump is one of them. Probably he would be if not restricted by our constitution and checks and balances on the power by the three branches of government, the executive, legislative, and judicial.

But, is Trump other than being a blow hard that much different than Obama or many other US Presidents. They all want all things their way.

PS; I voted for Trump three times and support him in almost all of what he is doing. Sometimes his methods are however more like an axe than fine cuts of a sharp knife.

 

[Certus]

No, I do not.

What is your trade or profession? I assume you consider yourself as pretty good at it? Have any issues when someone is clueless on the subject, but opines how they would do it or how you should think about it?

I was very good at mine.

Why is that, that you think you’re not wrong?

Surprisingly no. Don’t have much of ego so can allow others to have their say and opinion without much care

 

[CJW]

@Pondoro I'll echo @BSO Dave and hope for the best and keep my skepticism high. Unfortunately, European governments and a majority of voters can take a large part of the blame for pushing people in the opposite direction. There's a reason for a shift to the right all around the world.

 

[flatwater bill]

Many of you that "support Ukraine", mean funding more killing and destruction. Support to Ukraine means peace. Wars end with compromise. Even in WW2 we did not kill all the Japanese. It ended with compromise. We have already "supported" Ukraine to death. Literally. ........FWB

 

[wesheltonj]

. . . They also want to pull Germany out of the EU.

You mean like the UK? The UK seems to have done fine outside of the EU. Of course, they too have an immigration problem, like Germany, Sweden, etc. All my European friends can't stand the crap that comes out of Brussels.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

The year was about 1997 and the Marine Corps was emphasizing professional reading. I think it still is. Anyway, at Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center Twentynine Palms, Major General Leslie Palm held a monthly Officer’s Call in which the lucky ones were assigned a book to present all their fellow officers. Yours truly was assigned Adolph Hitler from the book Mask of Command. https://www.amazon.com/Mask-Command-Study-Generalship-ebook/dp/B005R20WSG

I remember then Colonel Mattis was in the audience because a few words from him reminded some major to conduct himself as a Marine officer.

In preparing for the book report, I thought how could I turn the leadership of that bag of genocidal crap into someone worth talking about? The first thing I did was read the section on Adolph and how he rose to and held power. It was really quite interesting how he and the Brown Shirts whipped up most of Germany to hate, really hate their Jewish neighbors. Then I watched a few videos of him giving speeches. Of course, later Hitler had the SS eliminate the Brown Shirts. Night of the long knives, I believe...

Hate is a powerful motivation and also a unity builder. Does that sound familiar? Let’s be tribal and hate all who do not agree with us! I think that is where DEI, BLM, Antifa, and other lefty groups found their power. And heck, people are like sheep where they follow the other sheep. “I hate Trump!” said many persons. But, why I asked and only received answers such as, “Because, just because”.

Back to the evil fellow with funny mustache. Hitler was a great leader of a very bad cause. He Brought Germany out of the depression by binding the populous and putting them to work. He instilled pride in being German. Had he only stopped after annexing the Sudetenland. But then there were the concentration camps.

Note: Hitler was great at building a unified Germany, regardless of his methods. He was however terrible as a commander in chief of the German armed forces..

If Hitler and his National Socialists had not tried to exterminate all the Jews and only restricted and taxed them similar to what non-Muslims are in Islamic countries, perhaps we would view him differently? What if instead the NAZIs had used the Jewish talent to further Hitler’s evil goals? The outcome of the war may have been different. Maybe… But Hitler and his henchmen used hate of the Jews to rise to power. Perhaps once that demon was out of the cage it kept growing within many Germans. I don’t know for sure because I wasn’t there or even living then.

Meanwhile back at the Twentynine Palm Officer’s Club I was presenting the virtues of Hitler’s leadership abilities to a roomful of every other officer on the base. Not to fear as I had studied my subject. Within a minute of starting my presentation I slipped into character as Hitler with his animated manner of public speaking. I must have been pretty good as I won a strong applause from a hard audience.

Leadership is situational and must be geared toward the audience. Hitler as Chancellor took over a broke, starving, and humiliated Germany. Hate was a factor, a tool he used to gain allegiance of the German people. Decades later, Obama played the race card very well. Big Mike, well I can’t figure out why women admire her? Biden was asleep as Obama and friends continued their Manchurian Candidate program of destruction from within.

Trump is verbose and throws a handful of mud or shxt against the wall to see what sticks. Trump is perhaps the biggest pot stirrer in the world! Heck, if he’d talk about making Canada the 51st state with a smile and Ronald Reagan humor, every Canadian would be laughing as they get ready to toss out their Castro Jr.

Trump is what he is. Pot stirrer, trouble maker, and muckraker. For this Africa Hunting crowd, probably most of us agree with his goals but each and every one of us probably think darn, we could have said that better. But then, so could Trump. He doesn’t want to because if he did, people might not pay attention. Trump is here for another 46 months to be followed hopefully by Vance, DeSantis, or other conservative with leadership abilities.

 

[Vashper]

I have the impression that a peace agreement will not be reached now, since many Trump supporters, as well as all Democrats, are in favor of continuing and intensifying the war, hoping for a military defeat of Russia. Trump cannot ignore this. Putin cannot stop without achieving his declared goals. More precisely, this can only happen in the event of a military defeat.There are also not many supporters of the agreement in Russia, given some features of the implementation of previous agreements.

 

[Pondoro]

Not so sure Vaspher..the only thing Putin fear is american military might.. He also know that Trump is unpredictable..and I think that scares Putin..

But that said, a lot needs to be on the table to achive peace as it stands now..

 

[WAB]

I won't speak for @WAB, but no I certainly do not. One thing our leadership has lacked from the start of the invasion is a clear strategy how to conduct and conclude it on terms favorable to the US, NATO, and Ukraine. And yes those are three separate sets of interests.

Best I could tell, Jake Sullivan had no idea what he was doing, and orchestrated a support commitment from NATO that kept Ukraine in the war without creating the risk, in his mind if no one else's, of Russia actually losing it.

In the thirties it was pretty clear. The Soviet Union allowed Germany to train and recreate its armed forces within its borders and outside the limitations of the Versailles Treaty. As you remember the USSR even cooperated in the invasion and dismemberment of Poland.

Now, I suspect it is the allure of strong central leadership. I would suggest that motivates some of the Putin apologists in this country.

Well said. I would like us to support Ukraine with military aid and a strategic plan to either beat Russia outright, or force them to the table on terms favorable to Ukraine.

Trump’s approach to Ukraine, and frankly his foreign policy in general, was my greatest misgiving in voting for him. His approach to date, with the exception of Israel, has been a simple projection of domestic policy. I truly hope that a more thoughtful and strategic approach will reveal itself soon.

 

[YancyW]

Well said. I would like us to support Ukraine with military aid and a strategic plan to either beat Russia outright, or force them to the table on terms favorable to Ukraine.

Trump’s approach to Ukraine, and frankly his foreign policy in general, was my greatest misgiving in voting for him. His approach to date, with the exception of Israel, has been a simple projection of domestic policy. I truly hope that a more thoughtful and strategic approach will reveal itself soon.

Out of Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden; which do you think has handled Putin the best?