Politics

[LivingTheDream]

Maybe maybe not but the path we're on will cause losses.

I'm not 100% certain about that. We are too far away from the mid terms, and voters tend to have a short memory.

 

[gbflyer]

Extremely well executed I think.

We honestly need more of that… let our leadership come forward and tell us what’s going on, rather than have to hear it through the filter of Rachel Maddow, Tucker, or anyone else…

Personally I wouldn’t ever do another interview if I were in a senior cabinet members position.. I’d go straight to X or whatever platform is best suited for the message.. and just tell the American people myself…

Wasting time with the media these days just gives the hacks more opportunities to play gotcha games and skew the intended message…

Agree 100%. It’s also refreshing not to see some stuffy old codger up there left over from the failures of the last 30 years spouting the same tired, failed BS.

 

[Russ16]

Well yes it had overwhelming bipartisan support. But he didn't have to sigh it. It quite obvious that insurance companies and drug companies have most politicians in their pocket. The unions ignored anyone who complained because they sold insurance. We'll I'm just glad I didn't fall for their scam. I actually feel the old health care system is about to blow up in their face. I know a lot of young people who don't even get it if offered he'll you could make a nice payment on a boat for what that stuff costs.

There are many bills that get 390 votes in the house and 72 in the Senate that don’t get signed.

 

[Russ16]

There are many bills that get 390 votes in the house and 72 in the Senate that don’t get signed.

Won’t let me edit for some reason that should say aren’t.

 

[cwpayton]

Turks sent a regiment to Korea and suffered heavy casualties as well.

Were they mounted on camels?

 

[cwpayton]

Norway, Iceland, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium

But it is just about time, we are some years behind in eating shitty food in front of the TV.

Main point is that Norway isn't the miracle of economy, education and free healthcare that someone has painted for Mr.Trump.

He should look at Finland!

Its those saunas and that ice plunge.

 

[SaintPanzer]

I’m going to guess @roverandbrew know who Randy Weaver, Vicki Weaver, Bo Gritz, Lin Horuchi etc better than most on this forum…

Consider the regiment Weaver claimed he served in (he didn’t), the regiment Gritz served in (he legitimately did), and the unit Horuchi served in..

And then if you’ve paid any attention to who Rover is, you’d see very direct connections…

His point is (I think… I don’t want to put words in his mouth), is what does an activity that happened quite literally before 99% of the currently serving members of the FBI graduated high school have to do with anything going on today?

Ruby Ridge happened in August of 1992… 33 years ago…

Should we also hold today’s serving agents accountable for Hoovers intel collection activities against political rivals?

Everyone that was at Ruby Ridge has long been retired… many of them are dead… it has nothing to do with today’s FBI…

If we want to hold the FBI’s leadership accountable for what the FBI has become today… how about we focus on the SES and GS15 bureaucrats that likely entered service 5-15 years after Ruby Ridge…

Saying Lon Horouchi (the sniper that shot and killed Vicki Weaver) is indicative of a currently serving FBI HRT team member is tantamount to saying George HW Bush is indicative of who we believe Donald Trump is.

OK, yes, that was the short, sarcastic answer. I should have been more clear, in order to ensure you got the point.

Yes, Ruby Ridge was years ago. Randy Weaver may have lied about his regiment, but he committed no crime. The only charge for which he was not acquitted was for failing to appear for a court date. An important point in that charge is the government changed his appointed date, and then failed to notify him of the fact. For that, his wife and son were murdered. A woman charged with no crime was shot through a closed door while holding her child. It is not anti-government or anti-police to be bothered by that. The relevant point is not the time passed since the incident, but rather the fact that no punishment was ever given... in fact, the same people went to higher lengths a short time later in Waco, killing many when they could have just arrested David Koresh off the street. This is not a defense of Koresh, merely pointing out that there were perhaps better (and more in line with our way of life) ways to solve the problem.

Of course, we are as far (or farther) from the 90s as the 90s were from the times the FBI was wiretapping MLK (et al) without warrants. How many did J. Edgar "collect information on" in case he needed it in the future? Hello Fourth Amendment.

And it is this corporate culture: "Above the Law, Law doesn't apply to us, We have a higher calling... " that has been ingrained, and has led to (for example) senior agents saying "we won't let this happen" when referring to a legitimate election, trumped up (no pun intended) investigations of known false accusations provided by a political rival, lying to a federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant, investigations of parents who dared speak out at school board meetings, investigations of Catholics who were interested in the Latin Mass (I guess we've deleted the words "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" from the 1st Amendment)... the list of abuses go on for so long, and for so far back, it is clearly a trend. Do any of today's agents in the HRT remember Lon Horuchi? Probably not. But there is also no institutional memory of "if you cross this line, bad things happen" ether. And that's the problem. Should we hold today's serving agents accountable for Hoover's indiscretions? Of course not. The sins of the father are NOT the sins of the son. Rather, the question should be why are the sons still committing the same sins the father did? Were they never told that was wrong? Or were they told but they just don't care, because there never has been any accounting for any of the sins? And the sins continue to mount. Vicki Weaver can't answer, but I bet Carter Paige could.

Once upon a time, I was taught a Code of Conduct. The very first article of the Code stated: "I am an American. I serve in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. [emphasis added] I am prepared to give my life in their defense."

Last I checked, the abuses here, going back to J. Edgar, and continuing on past Peter Strzok are the antithesis of our way of life. Yet my comment was in response to having the audacity to even question the FBI. From where I sit, the ones not questioning the absence of accountability are the ones who should have their judgement questioned.

 

[cwpayton]

And 56000 British troops

We thank them for their service, 1.5 to 1.8 million US military served.

 

[Red Leg]

Were they mounted on camels?

What is your problem? They upheld their UN obligation, fought bravely for what was essentially a US national interest - certainly not a Turkish one, and suffered significant casualties. I honor that sacrifice. Maybe you should attempt to make jokes about the Australian and Korean soldiers who sacrificed so much in Vietnam?

 

[Russ16]

What is your problem? They upheld their UN obligation, fought bravely for what was essentially a US national interest - certainly not a Turkish one, and suffered significant casualties. I honor that sacrifice. Maybe you should attempt to make jokes about the Australian and Korean soldiers who sacrificed so much in Vietnam?

I think the fact that most Americans forget that was a UN action and that many nations served is sad.

 

[Tanks]

Were they mounted on camels?

No. Fix bayonets and charge. Fighting the wrong style of war. You can't fault their bravery though.

BTW, if they were going to be mounted on anything it would have been horses. Camels are Arabs' mode of transportation.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

What is your problem? They upheld their UN obligation, fought bravely for what was essentially a US national interest - certainly not a Turkish one, and suffered significant casualties. I honor that sacrifice. Maybe you should attempt to make jokes about the Australian and Korean soldiers who sacrificed so much in Vietnam?

Or the Canadians who volunteered to join the U.S. military while some Americans were fleeing to Canada to dodge the draft. Depending on the source numbers range for 20-40 thousand.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Well, well, well... When it looks like President "The Donald" hasn't a clue with his outlandish statements about the Ukranian Zman, the Don get's what he wants, mineral rights in Ukraine.

White House and Ukraine Close In on Deal For Mineral Rights​

Agreement could help resolve tensions that flared up between Zelensky and Trump​

Here is a link to the Wall Street Journal article with a downloadable .pdf version posted below.

https://www.wsj.com/world/white-house-and-ukraine-close-in-on-deal-for-mineral-rights-e924c672?mod=hp_lead_pos1

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Aircraft carrier skipper let go

 

[Wheels]

Regarding the continuing discussion of the FBI. One of my biggest concerns under Wray was the unmasking of millions of American's under FISA section 702 without warrants. I am sure the majority of these were accidents but still not right and the FBI did significantly lower the number over the years. What was concerning to me were the instances where the FBI didn't have enough information on an American to get a warrant, so got the 702's on a non American the individual was acquainted with to go after all of their data and thus get all data and communications on the American citizens they were targeting. It wasn't just the FBI who abused the system. Samantha Powers who just happened to be the last chief of USAID unmasked over 400 Americans using 702's under Obama. We don't know who she unmasked but she was a political appointee working directly for Obama. There were other instances of abuse by political appointees as well. The public doesn't know if any of the FBI agents doing this were ever fired or reprimanded.

 

[Doubleplay]

I think the fact that most Americans forget that was a UN action and that many nations served is sad.

Most Americans have no clue about Korean War and who fought in it and can't even show the Korea on a map.
Sad actually...

 

[Doubleplay]

Were they mounted on camels?

You have to educate yourself, Turks are not Arabs and actually they hate them.
They fought side by side with my grandfather who was a Marine officer in Korean War and he always talked how stupidly brave they were.

 

[mdwest]

OK, yes, that was the short, sarcastic answer. I should have been more clear, in order to ensure you got the point.

Yes, Ruby Ridge was years ago. Randy Weaver may have lied about his regiment, but he committed no crime. The only charge for which he was not acquitted was for failing to appear for a court date. An important point in that charge is the government changed his appointed date, and then failed to notify him of the fact. For that, his wife and son were murdered. A woman charged with no crime was shot through a closed door while holding her child. It is not anti-government or anti-police to be bothered by that. The relevant point is not the time passed since the incident, but rather the fact that no punishment was ever given... in fact, the same people went to higher lengths a short time later in Waco, killing many when they could have just arrested David Koresh off the street. This is not a defense of Koresh, merely pointing out that there were perhaps better (and more in line with our way of life) ways to solve the problem.

Of course, we are as far (or farther) from the 90s as the 90s were from the times the FBI was wiretapping MLK (et al) without warrants. How many did J. Edgar "collect information on" in case he needed it in the future? Hello Fourth Amendment.

And it is this corporate culture: "Above the Law, Law doesn't apply to us, We have a higher calling... " that has been ingrained, and has led to (for example) senior agents saying "we won't let this happen" when referring to a legitimate election, trumped up (no pun intended) investigations of known false accusations provided by a political rival, lying to a federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant, investigations of parents who dared speak out at school board meetings, investigations of Catholics who were interested in the Latin Mass (I guess we've deleted the words "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" from the 1st Amendment)... the list of abuses go on for so long, and for so far back, it is clearly a trend. Do any of today's agents in the HRT remember Lon Horuchi? Probably not. But there is also no institutional memory of "if you cross this line, bad things happen" ether. And that's the problem. Should we hold today's serving agents accountable for Hoover's indiscretions? Of course not. The sins of the father are NOT the sins of the son. Rather, the question should be why are the sons still committing the same sins the father did? Were they never told that was wrong? Or were they told but they just don't care, because there never has been any accounting for any of the sins? And the sins continue to mount. Vicki Weaver can't answer, but I bet Carter Paige could.

Once upon a time, I was taught a Code of Conduct. The very first article of the Code stated: "I am an American. I serve in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. [emphasis added] I am prepared to give my life in their defense."

Last I checked, the abuses here, going back to J. Edgar, and continuing on past Peter Strzok are the antithesis of our way of life. Yet my comment was in response to having the audacity to even question the FBI. From where I sit, the ones not questioning the absence of accountability are the ones who should have their judgement questioned.

Much of your ire should be pointed at the ATF. They are who bungled charges, arrest warrants, legal procedure, etc at both Ruby Ridge and Waco…

FBI HRT was sent in behind the ATF because they are the only non military tier 1 asset our country has. The ATF in both situations lacked the ability to clean up their own mess.

The FBI didn’t bungle the investigations.. they actually had nothing to do with anything in either case except the follow on tactical response to the ATFs failures…

Granted the FBI made huge mistakes on their part as well..

But again, a far stretch to connect those dots if you have any knowledge of what actually went on then vs what’s wrong with the FBI today.. they are two completely different issues..

 

[YancyW]

Well, well, well... When it looks like President "The Donald" hasn't a clue with his outlandish statements about the Ukranian Zman, the Don get's what he wants, mineral rights in Ukraine.

White House and Ukraine Close In on Deal For Mineral Rights​

Agreement could help resolve tensions that flared up between Zelensky and Trump​

Here is a link to the Wall Street Journal article with a downloadable .pdf version posted below.

https://www.wsj.com/world/white-house-and-ukraine-close-in-on-deal-for-mineral-rights-e924c672?mod=hp_lead_pos1

“This is an agreement that can strengthen our relations, and the key is to work out the details to ensure its effectivness, ” he said. “I look forward to the outcome—a just result." Seems like Zelenskyy is happy with deal....

 

[SaintPanzer]

Much of your ire should be pointed at the ATF. They are who bungled charges, arrest warrants, legal procedure, etc at both Ruby Ridge and Waco…

FBI HRT was sent in behind the ATF because they are the only non military tier 1 asset our country has. The ATF in both situations lacked the ability to clean up their own mess.

The FBI didn’t bungle the investigations.. they actually had nothing to do with anything in either case except the follow on tactical response to the ATFs failures…

Granted the FBI made huge mistakes on their part as well..

But again, a far stretch to connect those dots if you have any knowledge of what actually went on then vs what’s wrong with the FBI today.. they are two completely different issues..

Yes, the ATF screwed up a lot of things.

But the "follow on tactical response to ATF's failures" is where this specific problem lies. The ROE at Ruby Ridge allowed for engaging males carrying weapons who left the cabin. It did not allow for shooting through doors at unarmed, infant carrying females. Nevertheless, the shot was fired. Not only were there no repercussions, the same team was then sent to Waco.

As far as "two completely different issues", well, maybe. But consider this: Above is a blurb about the skipper of the USS Truman being relieved. That particular relief has very little to do with other reliefs, but the point is that there is a cause and effect. The dots I am connecting in the case of the FBI is the FBI has a history of no effects. It's not about Ruby Ridge, and it's not about Waco. There are many causes, all different. But there never seems to be a rebuke, which means with no real accountability, they seem to find new ways to create problems. And they seem to be very creative.