Politics

[Tanks]

Russia had no desire to go to the table other than accept Ukraine's abject surrender. It is why efforts attempted by NATO members went nowhere. That is not the basis for a negotiation. I see zero evidence to date they are willing to accept anything less with Trump. I am deeply concerned Trump may be willing to try and give them just that.

Yep, already we see the demands from Russia.

Russia demands Ukraine cities it doesn't control as part of Trump deal: ISW

Conceding to Vladimir Putin's demands would effectively hand over 1 million Ukrainians to Russia, the Washington think tank said.

www.newsweek.com

 

[OxfordTheCat]

Ironic that you quote a NYT article to make that old claim in a topic regarding Ukraine.

A paper with a rich and documented history of propaganda. Specifically, known for supporting Stalin (who was um... Russian) by suppressing knowledge to the US public about the holodomor (which was... You guessed it... Ukraine.)

Hopefully you stretched and did some deep knee bends, because that's the most impressive reach I've seen in quite a while.

Stalin has been dead since 1953.
And Duranty's work was 93 years ago.

 

[PAUL_MAUSER]

After reading some of the comments, it seems some members believe if you criticize Zelensky and or Ukraine in any way or do not want to give them the entire riches of the U.S. you are Putin's best friend, a KGB agent or actively smuggling weapons to Russia

They are clowns. I see them on many different forums. Also, anyone who ever served is a foreign policy expert and knows better than the majority that voted for what is being done now.

Perhaps they should run for political office on the stance they have and see how popular it really is among the majority.

 

[Tanks]

They are clowns. I see them on many different forums. Also, anyone who ever served is a foreign policy expert and knows better than the majority that voted for what is being done now.

Perhaps they should run for political office on the stance they have and see how popular it really is among the majority.

Well, the populists that voted for Trump basically voted for him due to domestic issues. The rest as evidenced by those that believe we have sent hundreds of billions of dollars to Ukraine and Zelensky has no support at home are just low information voters that are inspired by the rhetoric of their man who can say or do no wrong.

 

[MLindsay]

Well, the populists that voted for Trump basically voted for him due to domestic issues. The rest as evidenced by those that believe we have sent hundreds of billions of dollars to Ukraine and Zelensky has no support at home are just low information voters that are inspired by the rhetoric of their man who can say or do no wrong.

Well Tanks, how much have we spent, and what is the limit?

 

[TTundra]

"Putin doesn't want Nato encroachment."

Yeah, and Ukraine didn't want 'encroachment' either. And yet here we are. I don't get why we have any f**ks to give about anything Putin wants.

There won't be an end to the war without communication with Putin. General Kellog said it best, "all wars end with negotiation".

 

[spike.t]

Some Ukrainian views on the oval office meeting......

'Unpleasant to see' - Ukrainians react to Trump and Zelensky's spat

The meeting, which was meant to end with a minerals deal signing, instead descended into an argument over the Ukraine war.

www.bbc.com

The full version.....his ratings aren't exactly what certain usa politicians claim....seem pretty robust ...

Ukrainians back Zelensky after disastrous Oval Office encounter

The more the country is attacked, the more unity there is, people in Kyiv tell the BBC.

www.bbc.com

 

[Field28]

After reading some of the comments, it seems some members believe if you criticize Zelensky and or Ukraine in any way or do not want to give them the entire riches of the U.S. you are Putin's best friend, a KGB agent or actively smuggling weapons to Russia

Exactly!!!

 

[spike.t]

Cuts to US national parks and forests spark outrage

Employees who maintained America's most wild places say they are concerned for public safety and for wildlife.

www.bbc.com

 

[1dirthawker]

so my question to the more informed members of this discussion, what does a proper concession/negotiation actually look like. i hear lots of gripes about how zelinsky should or should not do this, putin should be negotiated with, trump is an idiot, etc.

so what does a proper negotiated peace deal look like to you? who does/gets what? and of course it must be based in the realities that currently exist on the ground in Ukraine. i have heard complaints but no solutions.

what does a righteous peace deal look like? and is it actually possible to get done?

 

[Tanks]

Well Tanks, how much have we spent, and what is the limit?

From a post few pages back.

Trump is overstating the alleged 350 billion dollars in American aid to Ukraine; the Kiel Institute for the World Economy has calculated that Europe raised 138 billion, while 119 billion dollars came from the USA.

As far as the limit we are there with this administration. Ukraine, and most of our allies for that matter cannot count on anything from the USA that is not transactional. If Trump was President during WWII half the country would have been speaking German and the other half Japanese.

Edit: Now that think about it. I think we would have just split Africa and the oil reserves with Germany and called it a tremendous deal.

 

[Tanks]

so what does a proper negotiated peace deal look like to you? who does/gets what? and of course it must be based in the realities that currently exist on the ground in Ukraine. i have heard complaints but no solutions.

To me, Ukraine signs a minerals deal (makes Trump look good), in return the USA provides as much material and aid (including intelligence) as Ukraine needs and tells Russia to come to the table when they are realistic.

 

[1dirthawker]

Cuts to US national parks and forests spark outrage​

Employees who maintained America's most wild places say they are concerned for public safety and for wildlife.

www.bbc.com

one small data point, a hunting buddy has a sister and a brother in law, both work for the park service, (in arizona) from home. they were offered the buyout. neither had ever been in the field. not sure what they did but I'm ok with them being laid off.

 

[Aaron N]

Maybe Trump is a Russian agent?…

Opinion | This Never Happened With an American President Before

Trump’s behavior in the Oval Office with Zelensky was an unparalleled break with American foreign policy.

www.nytimes.com

You mean Krasnov?

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

From a post few pages back.



As far as the limit we are there with this administration. Ukraine, and most of our allies for that matter cannot count on anything from the USA that is not transactional. If Trump was President during WWII half the country would have been speaking German and the other half Japanese.

Edit: Now that think about it. I think we would have just split Africa and the oil reserves with Germany and called it a tremendous deal.

You’re such a closet lefty lol

 

[spike.t]

US aid cuts send South Africa's HIV treatment 'off a cliff'

The US axes vital HIV/Aids funding, which South Africa's health minister says is a "wake-up call".

www.bbc.com

 

[Tanks]

You’re such a closet lefty lol

Being critical of Trump's foreign policy makes me a lefty?

 

[Pondoro]

To me, Ukraine signs a minerals deal (makes Trump look good), in return the USA provides as much material and aid (including intelligence) as Ukraine needs and tells Russia to come to the table when they are realistic.

Russia must at least pull out of southern Ukraine...I guess we have to let them keep Donetsk - Luhansk and Crimea..even if that turns my stomach.

And the question remain..who shalt pay for rebuilding the country..?

 

[Field28]

Yeah, imagine if Russia did something like put missles in some place like Cuba, go figure.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Being critical of Trump's foreign policy makes me a lefty?

I think it’s say you lean to the left. Your hatred of him will drive you across the finish line