Politics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potash#See_also

@Tubby’s Canteen you are usually a wise sage on all the topics you comment on, but in this case you don't know your ash from a mine (a hole in the ground)

:A Stirring: :E Happy:

By the 18th century, higher quality American potash was increasingly exported to Britain. In the late 18th and early 19th centuries, potash production provided settlers in North America badly needed cash and credit as they cleared wooded land for crops. To make full use of their land, settlers needed to dispose of excess wood. The easiest way to accomplish this was to burn any wood not needed for fuel or construction. Ashes from hardwood trees could then be used to make lye, which could either be used to make soap or boiled down to produce valuable potash. Hardwood could generate ashes at the rate of 60 to 100 bushels per acre (500 to 900 m3/km2). In 1790, the sale of ashes could generate $3.25 to $6.25 per acre ($800 to $1,500/km2) in rural New York State – nearly the same rate as hiring a laborer to clear the same area. Potash making became a major industry in British North America. Great Britain was always the most important market. The American potash industry followed the woodsman's ax across the country.

The Permian Basin deposit includes the major mines outside of Carlsbad, New Mexico, to the world's purest potash deposit in Lea County, New Mexico (near the Carlsbad deposits), which is believed to be roughly 80% pure. (Osceola County, Michigan, has deposits 90+% pure; the only mine there was converted to salt production, however.) Canada is the largest producer, followed by Russia and Belarus. The most significant reserve of Canada's potash is located in the province of Saskatchewan and is mined by The Mosaic Company, Nutrien and K+S.[1]

Actually he’s spot on. The US can in no way meet its potash demand domestically. Most of the mines you mention are liquid not soft rock mining. Without Canadian potash, US Ag has a problem.
 
I just have one request; If you are so strongly anti-Trump (certainly your prerogative), please enlighten us as to how Pres. Harris would have done a better job given the world situation?

More of the same? Brilliant plan to cut government waste? Handle the southern border crisis? Ukraine?

Looking forward to your answers.
Hi gearguy.

You're right, Harris and her executive might not have done a 'better' job, however:

- Harris would not have set up a mafia state, with wholesale sackings of inspectors general, judge advocates general, military chiefs, FBI bureau chiefs, etc, etc, along with intimidation of Congress members, judges, journalists, media organisations, etc;
- Harris would not have set about making enemies of just about every friend America has;
- Harris would not stabbed Ukraine in the back by cutting off intel, at the cost of many lives;
- Harris would not have prepped Russia that it was about to cut off intel for Ukraine;
- Harris would not have extorted Ukraine;
- Harris and her VP would not have conducted themselves like thugs with a visiting President whose country is suffering an aggressive invasion, in a media ambush;
- Harris would not have thrown tariffs around in a tantrum, confusing the crap out of business people and frightening worldwide markets;
- Harris would not have tipped off her mates to buy the dip, as the tariffs are coming straight off again;
- Harris and her partner would not have released meme coins as avenues for bribes a day before inauguration;
- Harris would not have been chaotic in general, with pretty well everything;
- Harris would not lie, knowingly, openly and uncaringly, every time she spoke;
- Harris would not have made it impossible for American tourists to get a coffee or a meal anywhere in Europe (and broadly every where else quite frankly) without a thick layer of ten cooks' and waiters' spit over the top of it.

I have just one request. Are those of you who are Trump supporters so blind as to not be able to see what is happening to the good governance of your country? Trump is copying Putin and is creating a mafia state. He's already done it! Do you really think this is a good development?

I ask these questions as a person who genuinely understands the need for a pivot in the US's attention away from Europe and towards Asia. No issue, in fact as an Australian I welcome it. Harris could easily have accomplished the same, without ruining America's prosperity, reputation, self-respect, civic pride, trade balance and the prospect of a future without civil war. Getting a tax cut is not worth this.
 
Ford is all blow and no go… this is no different than his threat to shut US govt contractor out of Ontario… which would cost +/- 10,000 Canadians their jobs…

If the US consumes that much potash from Canada… WABs point is right on target..

Potash is a low value, high volume product… it currently trades at about $318 per metric ton.

So you’re not putting it on a container ship and sending it anywhere else… the cost of getting it where you want it to go would increase the price outside of anything close to its market value..

Either you use it yourself (Canada can’t absorb that much of its own potash) or you sell it to your neighbor… or you shut down the mine and once again, Canadians are out of jobs…

This threat is just about as dumb as Freelands statement about needing UK nuke to protect Canada from US aggression…

Just extreme leftist politicians pandering to the ill advised and unaware population…

Totally agree, Ford is a first class twit. However, Tubby’s point is valid, the US is in trouble without Canadian oil and potash. I see no way the government could actually do that, but if they did we would be in a world of hurt.

It just points out how totally ridiculous this tariff ‘war’ is. Hopefully cooler heads prevail and our isolationists don’t isolate us into the 1,800’s!
 
@Tubby’s Canteen has made that point.. and I agree…

But I’m not the leader of the free world… so not my shot to call…

Were I king for a day, my approach would have been to tell Canada something to the effect of “the moment you have a government in place, we’re going to start talking tariffs, and other economic actions… please choose your leadership wisely”… and then left it alone..

And that would of been a respectable position to take where as trump seems to be taking a sledge hammer to everything he touches hoping to build back better out of pieces.
 
I looked it up: https://investingnews.com/daily/res...investing/top-potash-countries-by-production/

I'm a history major, not a math major. But based on the data on this site, if I assume instead of the US buying all the Canadian yearly production of potash (15 million tons), US potash reserves (220 million tons) would last over 14 years. So we have that going for us.

Mistakes are being made. Others will be blamed.
 
Totally agree, Ford is a first class twit. However, Tubby’s point is valid, the US is in trouble without Canadian oil and potash. I see no way the government could actually do that, but if they did we would be in a world of hurt.

It just points out how totally ridiculous this tariff ‘war’ is. Hopefully cooler heads prevail and our isolationists don’t isolate us into the 1,800’s!

What has me worried is that it is being discussed at all.
 
And that would of been a respectable position to take where as trump seems to be taking a sledge hammer to everything he touches hoping to build back better out of pieces.

Concur.. we’re seeing the same approach with DOGE, Ukraine, etc..

The challenge is most people I’m taking to that are even just a little bit further right than center-right are either eating it up and fully on board.. or while cautious, and comfortable letting it all play out for a while before making judgement..

I don’t think the left (or even most centrists and independents) had any idea just how frustrated and pissed of the rest of their countrymen have been…

So much of it stems from social issues like homoerotic celebrations in the White House, DEI, transgenders in sports, etc etc I believe.. but the demand now is that EVERYTHING take a hard right turn, and turn immediately… whether the issue is economic, social or otherwise..

I’m not sure people aren’t still incensed by masks, vax mandates, and COVID crap to be truthful… at that seems like a million years ago at this point…
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potash#See_also

@Tubby’s Canteen you are usually a wise sage on all the topics you comment on, but in this case you don't know your ash from a mine (a hole in the ground)

:A Stirring: :E Happy:

By the 18th century, higher quality American potash was increasingly exported to Britain. In the late 18th and early 19th centuries, potash production provided settlers in North America badly needed cash and credit as they cleared wooded land for crops. To make full use of their land, settlers needed to dispose of excess wood. The easiest way to accomplish this was to burn any wood not needed for fuel or construction. Ashes from hardwood trees could then be used to make lye, which could either be used to make soap or boiled down to produce valuable potash. Hardwood could generate ashes at the rate of 60 to 100 bushels per acre (500 to 900 m3/km2). In 1790, the sale of ashes could generate $3.25 to $6.25 per acre ($800 to $1,500/km2) in rural New York State – nearly the same rate as hiring a laborer to clear the same area. Potash making became a major industry in British North America. Great Britain was always the most important market. The American potash industry followed the woodsman's ax across the country.

The Permian Basin deposit includes the major mines outside of Carlsbad, New Mexico, to the world's purest potash deposit in Lea County, New Mexico (near the Carlsbad deposits), which is believed to be roughly 80% pure. (Osceola County, Michigan, has deposits 90+% pure; the only mine there was converted to salt production, however.) Canada is the largest producer, followed by Russia and Belarus. The most significant reserve of Canada's potash is located in the province of Saskatchewan and is mined by The Mosaic Company, Nutrien and K+S.[1]

You may want to recheck the status of those deposits and get back to me. Also if you started the fire now you couldn’t have enough potash stockpiled by April to make a meaningful difference.
 
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I looked it up: https://investingnews.com/daily/res...investing/top-potash-countries-by-production/

I'm a history major, not a math major. But based on the data on this site, if I assume instead of the US buying all the Canadian yearly production of potash (15 million tons), US potash reserves (220 million tons) would last over 14 years. So we have that going for us.

Mistakes are being made. Others will be blamed.

See @WAB post on the difference in potash deposits
 
Wow, what’s next mutual defense pact with Russia?

I would love to know which genius is coming up with this nonsense. All this will do is make our own forces less prepared and far less experienced at combined operations. I am sure all MAGA world is jumping up and down for joy. "We'll show those Europeans - let's cut off our right leg!"

We put a former Major who knows nothing about the operational level of war, a major that has alienated every senior officer in the services who could be offering him some advice, and further made him totally beholding to a political wing making defense related decisions, whether about basing, training, or budget without senior military leadership input.

Truly can not make it up.
 
Totally agree, Ford is a first class twit. However, Tubby’s point is valid, the US is in trouble without Canadian oil and potash. I see no way the government could actually do that, but if they did we would be in a world of hurt.

It just points out how totally ridiculous this tariff ‘war’ is. Hopefully cooler heads prevail and our isolationists don’t isolate us into the 1,800’s!

In the event of a Canadian federal leader having stones enough to actually shut of potash oil and electricity given the volatility of your president I would honestly fear U.S. military action.
 
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I seem to recall Hegseth repeating over and over and over again that his was going to focus the military on lethality and survivability… and that everything else was going to get cut…

Joint exercises are at the foundational level of lethality and survivability..

This is a dumb move.. whether we are mad at NATO partners or not..
 
First, the Feds do not take everything you earn. Secondly, top 10% (income of $234K+) pay 72% of Federal income taxes (2022 numbers). So, unless you are up there in income your contribution to Ukraine is pennies if at all.

Most of the USA are free loaders complaining about their tax dollars being wasted where in reality it is other people’s money that is getting spent by the government. :unsure:

There is a reason Bannon was up in arms about Musk and potential cuts to Medicaid as the recipients are, for the most part, the MAGA base. The same folks complaining about “their” tax dollars going to Ukraine while in reality they’d rather just get more for themselves. And no, obviously they are not the folks putting in “maximum effort “.
You hit the nail on the head. My stepdaughter is a physician assistant and works in a small rural town. She said she thought welfare was an inner city problem but she said small town America is full of Medicaid and snap recipients and they all are Maga. Doesn't make sense. Steve Bannon apparently knows this.
 
See @WAB post on the difference in potash deposits
Oh, I read that. And I'm trying to find better data. But I noticed on that same site:

10. United States​

Potash production: 420,000 metric tons
Potash reserves: 220 million metric tons

In 2024, US potash output totaled 420,000 metric tons, up 30,000 MT from its 2023 level. The US has potash reserves of 220 million metric tons.

So I'm thinking there has been a substantial increase. I also noticed that Russia is #2, Belarus is #3, and China is #4. So I guess that back up plan doesn't work either. Then there's Germany at #5.

Israel kicks out 2.4 million tons, so there's a source. What I'm really looking for is an annual consumption rate. Here: https://investingnews.com/daily/res...investing/top-potash-countries-by-production/ I see that the US uses 5.3 million metric tons. So there's a problem. What I don't know is whether the potash is imported as a raw material and then turned into fertilizer, or if it's imported as the fertilizer itself. I also cannot find out if the produced fertilizer is then sold, and if so, what part of that is exported. Kind of like the whole import oil sands, then refine it, then export the refined product.

What I'm really saying is world trade is a complicated business.
 
@Wyatt Smith when do farmers local to you start to source their fertilizer for the season.
One thing to note, potash isn’t a fertilizer in itself, and not all regions/soil types require it. We never used the stuff in my part of Alberta.
 
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One thing to note, potash isn’t a fertilizer in itself, and not all regions/soil types require it. We never used the stuff in my part of Alberta.

I agree with you that not all soils need K, but it is one of the three primary macronutrients (N-P-K), so by definition it is a fertilizer.
 
You hit the nail on the head. My stepdaughter is a physician assistant and works in a small rural town. She said she thought welfare was an inner city problem but she said small town America is full of Medicaid and snap recipients and they all are Maga. Doesn't make sense. Steve Bannon apparently knows this.
Like I said earlier in my response to @Tanks. It’s absolutely shocking the amount of people that are MAGA yet receive some sort of government support. Being from small town Oklahoma you’re likely to see someone entering an Indian casino wearing a MAGA hat, I think that speaks volumes.
 

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