Politics

[skydiver386]

Socialist my ass..you have no idea of what you are talking about..

Agreed, the Nazi's had all sorts of practices in socialism

Volkswagen car for every worker(promise never kept), Free vacation cruise ships for the working class that otherwise wouldn't be able to afford it and all the other bait to get the working people to agree to hand over their freedoms in exchange for social equality; by means of taking from the wealthy(Jews) who were unjustly able to amass their fortunes by mean of a corrupt system........ Sound familiar?

Brown shirts were just the Antifa of the day and once they started asking about the wealth redistribution that was promised, then comes the "Night of the long knives" where the brown shirts were rounded up and unceremoniously executed.

Night of the Long Knives - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The party was originally named the "German Workers Party" and subsequently renamed in 1920 to the...

"National Socialist German Workers’ Party"

The Nazi Party was indeed Socialist left.

Socialism, Marxism, Communism, Fascism, etc., are all Collectivist systems. All power in the hands of the State is the common denominator in leftist ideology.

Conservative right ideology is centered around Free Markets and individual responsibility.

It is well known that Hitler and most of his early companions were not only Socialist, but frequently Communist.

Hitler often spelled out his hatred of Capitalism and Free Market economic systems in favor of State controlled and centrally planned economic systems.

"State control of the means of production" and other tenants of Marxism were central to National Socialist ideology, and the modern Socialist left. The Nazi State controlled the Financial System, the Education System, the Transportation System, the Information System and every facet of German life, even Sports and leisure activities were controlled by the State. Sound like Free Market Capitalism to you?

Nearly every point that Marx outlined in the Communist Manifesto, the Nazi Party actually put into practice.

Fascism is a term often used by those that try to confuse political terminology. The old Roman Fasces symbolizes unity, government power and physical force.

Total power in the hands of the State is aligned with Socialist left ideology.
By this basic fact alone, Fascism cannot be Conservative Right.

All Socialist left ideology is centered around Collectivism and increasing State power. On the opposite side of the political spectrum, Conservative right political ideology is centered around individual responsibility and minimal State power.

 

[coreydb]

Well, this went sideways.....color me gone.

 

[Doubleplay]

The Nazi Party was indeed Socialist left.

Socialism, Marxism, Communism, Fascism, etc., are all Collectivist systems. All power in the hands of the State is the common denominator in leftist ideology.

Conservative right ideology is centered around Free Markets and individual responsibility.

It is well known that Hitler and most of his early companions were not only Socialist, but frequently Communist.

Hitler often spelled out his hatred of Capitalism and Free Market economic systems in favor of State controlled and centrally planned economic systems.

"State control of the means of production" and other tenants of Marxism were central to National Socialist ideology, and the modern Socialist left. The Nazi State controlled the Financial System, the Education System, the Transportation System, the Information System and every facet of German life, even Sports and leisure activities were controlled by the State. Sound like Free Market Capitalism to you?

Nearly every point that Marx outlined in the Communist Manifesto, the Nazi Party actually put into practice.

Fascism is a term often used by those that try to confuse political terminology. The old Roman Fasces symbolizes unity, government power and physical force. View attachment 671000

Total power in the hands of the State is aligned with Socialist left ideology.
By this basic fact alone, Fascism cannot be Conservative Right.

All Socialist left ideology is centered around Collectivism and increasing State power. On the opposite side of the political spectrum, Conservative right political ideology is centered around individual responsibility and minimal State power.

Good try but Nazis and Mussolini are the text book Faschists and at the other end of spectrum.
No need trying to redefine ideologies.

Fascism refers to a political movement characterized by extreme nationalism, strict social and racial hierarchies, and forcible suppression of opposition, among other tendencies. Socialism refers to a political movement that advocates for the removal of social inequality and the collective or governmental ownership and control of the means of production (what the economy produces and how).

 

[Wheels]

For those that want to understand America's position on trade and tariffs better, you might want to listen to this interview with Lutnick.

 

[Scott CWO]

Add that large portions of time where life flourished on this rock there were no polar caps, the global climate was warmer, etc. Cold environments are much more challenging for life than warmer environments, simple fact that seems to get lost in all the global warming religion...look at the diversity of life in areas closer to the equator vs that in the areas closer to the poles, the warmer areas win hands down.

This is exactly why we all, well most of us on AH anyway, enjoy Africa so much. It’s the megaflora and megafauna. Our species in North America were hammered by the ice ages. We lost hundreds, if not thousands of species due to the cooling and ice.

 

[Newboomer]

The Nazi Party was indeed Socialist left.

Socialism, Marxism, Communism, Fascism, etc., are all Collectivist systems. All power in the hands of the State is the common denominator in leftist ideology.

Conservative right ideology is centered around Free Markets and individual responsibility.

It is well known that Hitler and most of his early companions were not only Socialist, but frequently Communist.

Hitler often spelled out his hatred of Capitalism and Free Market economic systems in favor of State controlled and centrally planned economic systems.

"State control of the means of production" and other tenants of Marxism were central to National Socialist ideology, and the modern Socialist left. The Nazi State controlled the Financial System, the Education System, the Transportation System, the Information System and every facet of German life, even Sports and leisure activities were controlled by the State. Sound like Free Market Capitalism to you?

Nearly every point that Marx outlined in the Communist Manifesto, the Nazi Party actually put into practice.

Fascism is a term often used by those that try to confuse political terminology. The old Roman Fasces symbolizes unity, government power and physical force. View attachment 671000

Total power in the hands of the State is aligned with Socialist left ideology.
By this basic fact alone, Fascism cannot be Conservative Right.

All Socialist left ideology is centered around Collectivism and increasing State power. On the opposite side of the political spectrum, Conservative right political ideology is centered around individual responsibility and minimal State power.

Hmmm. Sounds an awful lot like today's democrats--total control.

 

[Fastrig]

Good try but Nazis and Mussolini are the text book Faschists and at the other end of spectrum.
No need trying to redefine ideologies.

Fascism refers to a political movement characterized by extreme nationalism, strict social and racial hierarchies, and forcible suppression of opposition, among other tendencies. Socialism refers to a political movement that advocates for the removal of social inequality and the collective or governmental ownership and control of the means of production (what the economy produces and how).

You are half correct, Italy was a Fascist state, Nazis Germany was not. Germany practiced a version of socialism with heavy central government control of all aspects of German production, life, etc. Italy practiced authoritarian government but let the capitalist sector manage production, etc. One is socialist in nature and the other is fascist in nature.

 

[Fastrig]

The Nazi Party was indeed Socialist left.

Socialism, Marxism, Communism, Fascism, etc., are all Collectivist systems. All power in the hands of the State is the common denominator in leftist ideology.

Conservative right ideology is centered around Free Markets and individual responsibility.

It is well known that Hitler and most of his early companions were not only Socialist, but frequently Communist.

Hitler often spelled out his hatred of Capitalism and Free Market economic systems in favor of State controlled and centrally planned economic systems.

"State control of the means of production" and other tenants of Marxism were central to National Socialist ideology, and the modern Socialist left. The Nazi State controlled the Financial System, the Education System, the Transportation System, the Information System and every facet of German life, even Sports and leisure activities were controlled by the State. Sound like Free Market Capitalism to you?

Nearly every point that Marx outlined in the Communist Manifesto, the Nazi Party actually put into practice.

Fascism is a term often used by those that try to confuse political terminology. The old Roman Fasces symbolizes unity, government power and physical force. View attachment 671000

Total power in the hands of the State is aligned with Socialist left ideology.
By this basic fact alone, Fascism cannot be Conservative Right.

All Socialist left ideology is centered around Collectivism and increasing State power. On the opposite side of the political spectrum, Conservative right political ideology is centered around individual responsibility and minimal State power.

Fascism is more of a tweaner political system actually....it's central authoritarian gooberment control but allows capitalist control of production.....not really a monarchy, but closer to that than being socialist/marxist as it allows for private property ownership/private sector production where the other two are dominated by gooberment control of production/limited to no private property ownership. There are variations of all of the "ism's", the Nazi's being a variation of socialism, IMO.

 

[skydiver386]

Good try but Nazis and Mussolini are the text book Faschists and at the other end of spectrum.
No need trying to redefine ideologies.

Fascism refers to a political movement characterized by extreme nationalism, strict social and racial hierarchies, and forcible suppression of opposition, among other tendencies. Socialism refers to a political movement that advocates for the removal of social inequality and the collective or governmental ownership and control of the means of production (what the economy produces and how).

At one end of the Political spectrum there is total Government control. Totalitarianism

At the other end of the Political spectrum there is zero Government control. Anarchism

Basic Political Science.

 

[TTundra]

For those that want to understand America's position on trade and tariffs better, you might want to listen to this interview with Lutnick.

Great clip for all to listen to or watch.

 

[ActionBob]

In spite of the name of the party, the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Deutsche Nationalsozialistische Arbeiterpartei) definitely was not a socialist left movement. It represented an extreme right wing ideology focused on obedience to the will of a Fuhrer (Leader). The movement was classic fascism.

But they called themselves National Socialists.

And didn't Hitler gain that power using some significant Socislist programs?

 

[Russ16]

But they called themselves National Socialists.

And didn't Hitler gain that power using some significant Socislist programs?

The term socialist by political parties in Europe doesn’t always carry the same meaning that socialist does here. But sometimes it does. It’s very confusing actually.

 

[CJW]

The dialogue is viewed by most as being the rantings in someone who doesn’t understand Canada at all. So there is anger, but also a lot of bemusement. Canadians are prone to humour to call out what they don’t like. Our response is probably a lot like the response in Europe. When an elephant starts to prance around you are wise to act with self preservation in mind. But that doesn’t mean you think like the elephant. Americans will never really comprehend how different other countries think. And, their honest, heart felt belief that everyone else has it wrong will forever prevent them from learning from what is good out there. Trump is the personification of a culture that the rest of the world does not ascribe to. C’est la vie. If it works for the USA then we will probably be happy for you. In the meantime we will adjust ourselves to deal with the prancing elephant.

Huh???

You're right though. We Americans don't understand how most of you foreigners think nor what culture you ascribe to. Most of us who pay a little attention to Canadian and European politics and culture are developing a localized bald spot from all of the head scratching. You foreigners seem to spend a lot of time developing theories on us Americans and narratives of our naivety. As someone else said, pot meet kettle I guess. Personally I would advise fixing your own problems instead of distracting yourself too much with ours. And please don't come running here as a last resort. We don’t need anymore folks stuck in a state of denial and apathy.

What gives you the confidence to say that Americans will never understand how differently other countries think? Is there some sort of Canadian superiority that automatically gives you this knowledge and ability over Americans? That's some kind of stereotypical arrogance right there.

A nickles worth of free advice is to not worry about what the average American thinks of you because the truth is, for better or worse, the average American thinks of you not at all on a daily basis. Don't flatter yourself.

There's lots of complaining in this thread about how a small portion of Canada speaks for you all. In that case, it doesn't matter what you actually think. Maybe you should adopt our system. After all, contrary to what you may think, America has the market cornered on knowing "what is good out there". That's why we enshrined it and protect it so much. Better than any other country.

Now as a Canadian with a prancing elephant to deal with, don't you need to be told that you have some guns that are deemed too dangerous and illegal? A third Trudeau to elect? A bank account for your gov't to unfreeze if you play nice? Maybe keep an eye on the radar for Netanyahu's plane in Canadian airspace so you can guide it in with one of your 6 fighter jets and make the arrest for the ICC. Learning Arabic and memorizing the quran wouldn't be a bad use of time either. You haven't sent Jordan Peterson through forced reprogramming lately because he violated your non-existant free speech laws. Maybe give that a try with your, you know, self preservation and all. You Canadians are so easily distracted and flustered that the newly elected AMERICAN president, in just a few weeks, took you guys completely off a good track to Poilievre, to God knows what in your near future.

Keep your eye on the REAL ball. I'm genuinely rooting for the good people around the world.

 

[SaintPanzer]

Perhaps we should start here:

Nazi Party Platform

The Nazi Party Platform was a 25-point program for the creation of a Nazi state and society. Hitler presented it at the Hofbräuhaus Beerhall in Munich in February 1920.

encyclopedia.ushmm.org

The first 9 or so points seem to be more "right", while once you get to 13 or so, you've definitely entered the left side of the equation.

It's important to remember that once upon a time, Mussolini was a proud member of the Communist Party. He was kicked out because he was going too far left. He wanted Revolution NOW! And that's when he started the whole Fascist thing. "Everything within the State. Nothing outside the State. Nothing against the State". Difficult to reconcile that with "Abolish/defund these departments of the State" (not to be confused with the Department of State, which isn't going anywhere).

Salient difference between Socialism and Fascism: In Socialism, the state OWNS the means of production. In Fascism, the means of production is allowed to be owned by corporations, but only under the direct supervision of the state.

So how is National Socialism different? Consider this: During the same time period (and after), the center of the Communist Party was Moscow. The Party in Moscow called the shots, They directed the COMINTERN (Communist International), funded Socialist parties in other areas, etc. It was Moscow that made the decision to oust Mussolini from the party.

Once upon a time, there was a Bavarian Soviet Republic. I think it ran the government there for less than a week or so (I just checked in a new tab: Wikipedia says 6 days in 1919, but Wikipedia should never be considered a source).

Have fun using Google, or DuckDuckGo, or your other favorite search engine to check out "Communism", "German High Seas Fleet" and "Scapa Flow". Then ask yourself, is a party who wants to revive the German Military going to want to do anything under Moscow's guidance?

So National Socialism was always going to be socialism

("13. We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts).

14. We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises.

15. We demand the extensive development of insurance for old age.

16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle class, the immediate communalizing of big department stores, and their lease at a cheap rate to small traders, and that the utmost consideration shall be shown to all small traders in the placing of State and municipal orders.

17. We demand a land reform suitable to our national requirements, the passing of a law for the expropriation of land for communal purposes without compensation; the abolition of ground rent, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.")

under the direction of Berlin. And "Germanic" would always be the center. You can't have Nazi without German. The nation in "National" is German, and the "Socialism" should be easy to identify. Go back to "We demand the nationalization of all businesses..."

This is so important someone should write a book about it, with footnotes and everything. Oh, wait: Jonah Goldberg did.

 

[Pheroze]

Huh???

You're right though. We Americans don't understand how most of you foreigners think nor what culture you ascribe to. Most of us who pay a little attention to Canadian and European politics and culture are developing a localized bald spot from all of the head scratching. You foreigners seem to spend a lot of time developing theories on us Americans and narratives of our naivety. As someone else said, pot meet kettle I guess. Personally I would advise fixing your own problems instead of distracting yourself too much with ours. And please don't come running here as a last resort. We don’t need anymore folks stuck in a state of denial and apathy.

What gives you the confidence to say that Americans will never understand how differently other countries think? Is there some sort of Canadian superiority that automatically gives you this knowledge and ability over Americans? That's some kind of stereotypical arrogance right there.

A nickles worth of free advice is to not worry about what the average American thinks of you because the truth is, for better or worse, the average American thinks of you not at all on a daily basis. Don't flatter yourself.

There's lots of complaining in this thread about how a small portion of Canada speaks for you all. In that case, it doesn't matter what you actually think. Maybe you should adopt our system. After all, contrary to what you may think, America has the market cornered on knowing "what is good out there". That's why we enshrined it and protect it so much. Better than any other country.

Now as a Canadian with a prancing elephant to deal with, don't you need to be told that you have some guns that are deemed too dangerous and illegal? A third Trudeau to elect? A bank account for your gov't to unfreeze if you play nice? Maybe keep an eye on the radar for Netanyahu's plane in Canadian airspace so you can guide it in with one of your 6 fighter jets and make the arrest for the ICC. Learning Arabic and memorizing the quran wouldn't be a bad use of time either. You haven't sent Jordan Peterson through forced reprogramming lately because he violated your non-existant free speech laws. Maybe give that a try with your, you know, self preservation and all. You Canadians are so easily distracted and flustered that the newly elected AMERICAN president, in just a few weeks, took you guys completely off a good track to Poilievre, to God knows what in your near future.

Keep your eye on the REAL ball. I'm genuinely rooting for the good people around the world.

I absolutely agree that Canada has a lot of work to do. In reality, our history shows we are relatively new country, our Charter is only about 40 years old. We have spent the last 60 years not paying attention to what can make Canada a strong country. I think Trump has been a blessing in that he is forcing Canada to pay attention to the division of powers under our constitution and what we should do to create stability for Canadians. I am optimistic. I like Premier Smith, I think she has a lot of good ideas. We shall see.

 

[WAB]

Hello Pot, my name is kettle......

Having lived and holding citizenship on both sides of the border, I can assure you that the average Canadian knows far more about the USA than what the average American knows of Canada. In fact, I would hazard to guess that Canadians tend to be better educated on USA history than Americans are.

 

[lwaters]

Man, with family on both sides of the border, why did the insults even have to start? The problems are illegal alien crossings and fentanyl trafficking into our country. If Trump hadn't made the first insults, I wonder where we would actually be in resolving these two matters?

Why don't the government just put poison in the street drugs then Tell the public. You buy from a drug dealer you may die. End of problem.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Why don't the government just put poison in the street drugs then Tell the public. You buy from a drug dealer you may die. End of problem.

And what would that look like when a bunch of people who didn't get the message or perhaps didn't care, died from the poison that the gov't put in the drugs? How does that work, you seize the drugs, poison them, then hand them back to the criminal suppliers to sell on the streets? Or does the gov't get involved in doing the actual selling of the poison?

That's not the end of the problem, that's the beginning of many more I'd argue.

 

[Foxi]

Agreed, the Nazi's had all sorts of practices in socialism

Volkswagen car for every worker(promise never kept), Free vacation cruise ships for the working class that otherwise wouldn't be able to afford that actually existed . KDF ships,Kraft durch Freude -power through joy---it and all the other bait to get the working people to agree to hand over their freedoms in exchange for social equality; by means of taking from the wealthy(Jews)"the Jews are our misfortune", that was the catchphrase of these idiots who were unjustly able to amass their fortunes by mean of a corrupt system........ Sound familiar?

Brown shirts were just the Antifa of the day and once they started asking about the wealth redistribution that was promised, then comes the "Night of the long knives" where the brown shirts were rounded up and unceremoniously executed.
it wasn't about the redistribution of wealth.Röhm, the SA leader, became too powerful through his thugs.That's why they were eliminated by Hitler and his SS.Röhm was homosexual and the public tried to be reassured that they were all just gays behaving in an un-Aryan way anyway.That was enough.Sepp Dietrich,the leader of the SS-Sonderkomando was instrumental in the shooting of the SA top, and the Sonderkomando later became the SS Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler (a Special forces).

Night of the Long Knives - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The party was originally named the "German Workers Party" and subsequently renamed in 1920 to the...

"National Socialist German Workers’ Party"

 

[Longwalker]

Can anyone of the MAGA crowd explain to me how international treaties and deals currently work?

I was under the obviously mistaken and erroneous assumption that international treaties with another nation were honourable and binding contracts negotiated in good faith and agreed to by both parties. Contracts that defined the behaviour of both parties for the full duration while they were in effect.

The current USA administration seems to operate with the assumption that whatever is currently expedient and good for the USA is what the daily deal is, contracts don't matter, and the "opposition" be damned. Lying and contract breaches are a fair and reasonable way to reach a "just" USA goal.

Trump himself negotiated and signed the currently legal and binding "USMCA" agreement. But now it's not worth the paper it's printed on. And here we have MAGA supporters suggesting we get back to the bargaining table.

Why would Canada negotiate in good faith when international good faith has been squandered on the altar of American electoral politics?

MAGA = Make America Greedy and Amoral

Canada's political and territorial integrity are at stake, and MAGA supporters say we're over reacting.