Politics

[OxfordTheCat]

"Anyone can do it if they just work hard"

Considerable amount of survivorship bias with some of these classic 'boot-straps' takes though.

Some make it.
An awful lot of hard working people, probably numbering in the majority, do not.

 

[ActionBob]

More than likely compared to the rest of the World.
However upward mobility quickly becoming a thing of the past here also.
It's not like in the 70's, 80's or even 90's.

I travel around and am astounded by the plethora of opportunities available. People are just lazy and/or lack ambition, tenacity, and creativity

 

[VertigoBE]

"Anyone can do it if they just work hard"

Considerable amount of survivorship bias with some of these classic 'boot-straps' takes though.

Some make it.
An awful lot of hard working people, probably numbering in the majority, do not.

I would see it like the game of poker.

Sure you can get dealt a bad hand, where even the best poker player in the world will be unable to do much with.

But going through a tournament it’s always the same players that drift to the top of the heap. Yet they all got the same random sets of cards. Some seem to be “more lucky”,

Now, if you want to talk about skill, intelligence, capabilities. Sure not everyone has started at the same advantage or disadvantage. And sometimes aspiring to more, without having the real capacity is fruitless. (I’d love to be as successful as some of the members here, but I’m unsure I truly have their capabilities. )

But more often than raw brain power or academic prowess, it will be the tenacious bastards that will be most successful in the long run. When I hire I don’t care so much about your education, or your past experience or your knowledge. Give me someone really hungry .

 

[ActionBob]

"Anyone can do it if they just work hard"

Considerable amount of survivorship bias with some of these classic 'boot-straps' takes though.

Some make it.
An awful lot of hard working people, probably numbering in the majority, do not.

No that doesn't typically work out. Only working hard rarely cuts it. You have to work hard and smart. Understand leverage and take risk..... A lot more to it than this.

Most people spend to much. Take the wrong kind of risk. If you want to start a business you need to stay too broke to be able to afford a Canadianano. Reinvest everything in the beginning. Many people are not willing to succeed. It is NOT about lacking opportunities.

From your posts I imagine you will not comprehend this.

 

[Fastrig]

"Anyone can do it if they just work hard"

Considerable amount of survivorship bias with some of these classic 'boot-straps' takes though.

Some make it.
An awful lot of hard working people, probably numbering in the majority, do not.

You have every opportunity in the U.S. to succeed, advance, and do well.....those that don't, the vast majority of the time, made poor decisions, often repeatedly.....

 

[Tanks]

You have every opportunity in the U.S. to succeed, advance, and do well.....those that don't, the vast majority of the time, made poor decisions, often repeatedly.....

My dad and I were talking about a cousin of mine some time ago. How he had never made anything of himself, just living off of family money. My dad's comment: "He has a government worker mentality; he has to be told what to do and never wants to take a risk"

 

[OxfordTheCat]

From your posts I imagine you will not comprehend this.

Mind your manners.
I understand it just fine, thanks.
I pulled ahead, and did it the hard way.

I'm just not naive enough to think it's any kind of guarantee. I'm quite certain there are those that worked harder than I, smarter than I, and took every risk and leap to try to eek out an opportunity...

... and who came up short.

 

[Tanks]

Tesla's latest decline could be one for the history books, JPMorgan analysts say

Tesla recently lost nearly 50% of its $1.5 trillion market. JPMorgan analysts don't know another car company that lost so much value so quickly.

www.businessinsider.com

12 more days of decline, that's all I ask.

 

[Wheels]

No that doesn't typically work out. Only working hard rarely cuts it. You have to work hard and smart. Understand leverage and take risk..... A lot more to it than this.

Most people spend to much. Take the wrong kind of risk. If you want to start a business you need to stay too broke to be able to afford a Canadianano. Reinvest everything in the beginning. Many people are not willing to succeed. It is NOT about lacking opportunities.

Great points. I will only add find something that is repeatable and scalable. This is what turns an individual that may top out with a seven figure net worth into an individual with an eight or nine figure net worth. My hats off to you. You have done a very good job at this.

To get to a ten figure or above net worth an individual is probably going to be well into the 99 percentile in intelligence and be focused on tech, ai or finance.

 

[rigbymauser]

Genuinely curious what you mean by "born into." Education opens virtually every single door in this country. I'll grant you that it is more difficult to appreciate that in a home devoid of books or intellectual curiosity. Notice, I said nothing about wealth. But the child, adolescent, young adult also has a responsibility to apply themselves. Do so, and there is a world of opportunity, hang out in the parking lot - and not so much.

I remember when I lived in Alabama and attended church(still member even though I live in europe) we did a lot of handouts. Some people came to the church because the were able to but there were those that didn`t get the bags of groceries unless we drove into the hills and gave them these bags. Lots of these people couldn`t afford for education nor seek interlectual stimula. Like for most folks in the farming community in the south had other concerns. College degrees wasn`t not one of them. After High School I worked in a Feed & Fertilizer store where I got to talk with local farmers about their concerns in general. Neither Trotskij, Nietzsche, Platon or Madam Curie came around in these talks. It was government, Reagan/Oliver North or stateregulations, price of fertilizer, tornados, trucks, coondogs or guns.

 

[rigbymauser]

You have every opportunity in the U.S. to succeed, advance, and do well.....those that don't, the vast majority of the time, made poor decisions, often repeatedly.....

It amazing how many people in america that make poor decisions.

 

[ActionBob]

My dad and I were talking about a cousin of mine some time ago. How he had never made anything of himself, just living off of family money. My dad's comment: "He has a government worker mentality; he has to be told what to do and never wants to take a risk"

Sounds like a family problem. Go DOGE on him and cut him off!

 

[ActionBob]

It amazing how many people in america that make poor decisions.

I suspect that is a universal trait World wide
...

 

[ActionBob]

I remember when I lived in Alabama and attended church(still member even though I live in europe) we did a lot of handouts. Some people came to the church because the were able to but there were those that didn`t get the bags of groceries unless we drove into the hills and gave them these bags. Lots of these people couldn`t afford for education nor seek interlectual stimula. Like for most folks in the farming community in the south had other concerns. College degrees wasn`t not one of them. After High School I worked in a Feed & Fertilizer store where I got to talk with local farmers about their concerns in general. Neither Trotskij, Nietzsche, Platon or Madam Curie came around in these talks. It was government, Reagan/Oliver North or stateregulations, price of fertilizer, tornados, trucks, coondogs or guns.

Yea, so what? I recall having such conversations at the feed store. Hell still do! I do not have a high school diploma and the only time I've ever stepped foot into a college classroom was to teach a class on marketing.

Maybe that's why I'm unemployable? Although I did have a job for 2 months one summer when I was about 20. It was interesting for a couple weeks but I really didn't really care for it. It impeded me from getting more important things done so swore that off for life

 

[Red Leg]

I remember when I lived in Alabama and attended church(still member even though I live in europe) we did a lot of handouts. Some people came to the church because the were able to but there were those that didn`t get the bags of groceries unless we drove into the hills and gave them these bags. Lots of these people couldn`t afford for education nor seek interlectual stimula. Like for most folks in the farming community in the south had other concerns. College degrees wasn`t not one of them. After High School I worked in a Feed & Fertilizer store where I got to talk with local farmers about their concerns in general. Neither Trotskij, Nietzsche, Platon or Madam Curie came around in these talks. It was government, Reagan/Oliver North or stateregulations, price of fertilizer, tornados, trucks, coondogs or guns.

I am a tenth generation Southerner. Scots-Irish frontiersmen one side and English/German fallen aristocracy on the other (Civil War and Depression were hard on them). I am fairly certain there is nothing you can tell me about the South. One grandfather was a hard scrabble farmer, and one of the best read men I have ever met. The other was a failed lawyer (that depression thing again) and state legislator. My father was a poorly paid academic while I was still at home, though he eventually died while Dean of Liberal arts. One of his great friends, Stephen Ambrose, was a periodic guest. Supper conversation for a young student was mesmerizing. I associate with a rather broad range of Texans these days. Many are farmers and working class folks in and around the metropolis of Taylor. We all grab a burger at Centerville. No they don’t read Nietzche - who does? But, as you note, they are deeply interested in policies that affect them and their families. What is your point?

 

[OxfordTheCat]

Yea, so what? I recall having such conversations at the feed store. Hell still do! I do not have a high school diploma and the only time I've ever stepped foot into a college classroom was to teach a class on marketing.

Maybe that's why I'm unemployable? Although I did have a job for 2 months one summer when I was about 20. It was interesting for a couple weeks but I really didn't really care for it. It impeded me from getting more important things done so swore that off for life

I imagine you're more of a rarity than you realise Bob.

I find the subject half amusing, half grating, because in my experience most of the proudly and vocal "self made" guys I've bumped into have a pretty selective memory:

A remarkable ability to forget about things like having college paid for, dad giving them a truck, the $100k gifted toward the first house, the interest free loan from Grandpa to get business going, the inheritance from the wife's dad, or getting started right out of school working for dad's trucking outfit, the printing company, or running the farm.

And all of them seem to be the most likely to jaw on after a couple whiskeys by the fire about all the sacrifices and scrimping they did, and how everyone else just didn't work as hard. Has that Shakespeare, doth protest too much theatre to it.

It's part of the reason I've never really felt the need to get too wound up about the blue-haired lesbian crowd and all the woke stuff: Seems to me that middle-aged white guys figured out long ago that you can just identify any way you want.

 

[Tanks]

I guess after all the bluster, the Democrats blinked.

Schumer says he'll vote to advance GOP funding bill on eve of shutdown

Schumer's reported support suggests that enough Senate Democrats will join Republicans to move the House-passed bill forward.

www.newsweek.com

 

[sgt_zim]

Mind your manners.
I understand it just fine, thanks.
I pulled ahead, and did it the hard way.

I'm just not naive enough to think it's any kind of guarantee. I'm quite certain there are those that worked harder than I, smarter than I, and took every risk and leap to try to eek out an opportunity...

... and who came up short.

The only real freedom any of us have is the freedom to be wrong, the freedom to fail.

Hard work, smart work, is essential to getting ahead. But so is a willingness to take on calculated risk. Hard and smart work will get you far in the US.

3 things will land you solidly in the middle class in the US.

1. graduate high school
2. get married before you start having kids, and stay married.
3. get a job, any job, and be ambitious with it.

Those are table stakes. Nobody will ever get anywhere by being a whiny little bitch, never believing in themselves. Risk-taking isn't a guarantee of success, but an absence of it is a guarantee of mediocrity or worse.

America didn't get where it is because we're the smartest, nor even the hardest working (though the latter is a part of it), we got where we are because we are the largest aggregation of risk-takers on the planet.

Call it naive if that helps you sleep better at night.

 

[LivingTheDream]

One thing I have noticed about successful people, is they have conviction in the things they do.

People I know that made it in real estate, made tons of sacrifices to acquire properties, people who started a business put everything on the line to make it to the next step. It was an unwavering belief that they were going to make it and this was how, no matter the market, no matter the hurdles, they were going to find a way no matter how painful it might be.

Hell the guys I know that are crypto millionaires, mortgaged their house, cashed out their 401k back in 2017 to get in and accumulate, and learn...at the end of 2021 I didn't hear from them again, they are enjoying their new life with new friends.

There is so much opportunity out there!

 

[OxfordTheCat]

The only real freedom any of us have is the freedom to be wrong, the freedom to fail.

Hard work, smart work, is essential to getting ahead. But so is a willingness to take on calculated risk. Hard and smart work will get you far in the US.

3 things will land you solidly in the middle class in the US.

1. graduate high school
2. get married before you start having kids, and stay married.
3. get a job, any job, and be ambitious with it.

Those are table stakes. Nobody will ever get anywhere by being a whiny little bitch, never believing in themselves. Risk-taking isn't a guarantee of success, but an absence of it is a guarantee of mediocrity or worse.

America didn't get where it is because we're the smartest, nor even the hardest working (though the latter is a part of it), we got where we are because we are the largest aggregation of risk-takers on the planet.

Call it naive if that helps you sleep better at night.

I don't disagree with the bulk of it.
But I'm going to point out for posterity that when it comes to being whiny, the ultra-controversial statement I posted which seems to have ruffled some feathers is:

Some make it.
An awful lot of hard working people, probably numbering in the majority, do not.

Heaven forbid. And it's hardly controversial.

And the American exceptionalism aside, the more realistic take is that America got to where it is because most of continential Europe was wiped out twice in twenty years, and for good measure the developed Asia was cleaned out once in the 20th century.

Habitual late arrivals to the conflict(s), after a healthy and profitable initial period of selling to both sides. And an industrial juggernaut by the time it all wrapped up and it's time to rebuild.

Little to do with individual risk taking. But that makes for a feel-good story, for sure.