Premium bullets needed for PG?

I’ve been wondering if a premium soft bullet like A frame, Northfork SS has a significant advantage over other SS. Now this is with respect to all PG big and small and not to be mixed up with DG
I've been on many hunts in many different places. I have listened to guides and PH's discuss what works and what does not work as far as bullets are concerned. So my opinions are from actual hunts and from conversations with folks much more experienced in their field than I.
I believe that Swift states in one of their commercials that the bullet is the least expensive part of your hunt. This is quite true. African game can be tough and in certain unfortunate circumstances PG can become DG. I recommend and use Barnes TSX for most everything. It has never let me down in 6 calibers now. I also can recommend Swift AFrame and Nosler Accubond (very similar).
On my recent Alaskan hunt my guide mentioned how much he loved the .300 Win that I was carrying and the Barnes TSX. He said the new .300 PRC was terrible and clients had to shoot animals over and over to get them down. We both agreed that it was the bullet not the caliber! I won't say more.
Everyone gets to choose what they hunt with. I hope folks will listen to experienced hunters on this subject and not just focus on velocity and accuracy at the range.
 
I’ve shot and killed a lot of PG and North American animals with Barnes TSX and TTSX Bullets. My preferred choice from .22-250 to .375H&H. Never had one run off and not recovered in a short period of time. From small cats to giraffe, Buff, Croc, Hippo all with Barnes TSX or TTSX. Nosler Partitions used to be my choice until I switched to Barnes close to 20 Years Ago. Likely close to 100 animals with Barnes TSX or TTSX if you include Coyote, Pigs, Jackal, Baboon, and a few other non-trophy animals…

There have been a lot of PG killed dead with non-premium bullets and well placed shots. Emphasis on well placed shots…

+1 on barnes TTSX and TSX... I load it for every one of my rifles from 308-416... and have had incredible success on NA game as well as African PG..

That said, Im now in the process of giving the Hornady CX bullet a try... I bought a bunch of the Hornady "Outfitter" ammo for my 300 PRC that is loaded with the 190gr CX (hornadys version of the TTSX.. monometal, polymer tipped, etc).. At the time I bought the rifle only Hornday Outfitter and Hornady Precision Hunter factory ammo was available.. so I bought a couple of boxes of each to see what grouped best in the rifle.. but really just to provide a supply of brass so that I could handload up a bunch of TTSX and see how they did in the gun...

Im getting sub MOA groups out to 200 with the 190gr CX.. and all reviews/reports Ive read on the CX says performance is equal to (almost identical) to the TTSX... so.. Ive bought several more boxes of the factory outfitter load.. and Im headed out this afternoon for northern Idaho.. we're hunting elk and deer this weekend and next week..

Assuming it performs on elk and deer like I believe it will (assuming we see an elk and a deer lol).. I might start moving toward the CX bullet... theyre a bit less expensive than the barnes.. and the seem to be a little more readily available..
 
Ask them about the Lion bullet if you choose the NF bullet. The bullet does all the work, as I'm sure others will agree.
 
On my recent Alaskan hunt my guide mentioned how much he loved the .300 Win that I was carrying and the Barnes TSX. He said the new .300 PRC was terrible and clients had to shoot animals over and over to get them down. We both agreed that it was the bullet not the caliber! I won't say more.

Im going to bet most of the hunters he is taking out that are using a 300 PRC are shooting either Hornady ELD-X or Hornaday ELD-M.. Those two factory rounds appear to be far and away the most popular among 300 PRC "hunters".. Ive found this to be especially true with guys that are hunting WY, MT, ID, CO, UT, etc..

Granted the 300 PRC was designed to be a "long range" cartridge.. and the ELD-X and ELD-M are both "precision" projectiles.. so if what youre going for is accuracy at a distance, they are a really good combination with any well built 300 PRC..

But if youre going for bullet weight retention, straight line penetration, and overall terminal performance, I think the CX (or a TTSX) is a much, much better option (which is why I have gone with a CX in my PRC)..

My personal max engagement distance with the PRC is 400 yards.. and my intention is to keep shots below 300 if at all possible.. with a 190gr CX thats still trucking along at 2550 fps at 300 yards (roughly 2375 at 400 yards).. I think terminal performance will very likely be devastating on an elk or a deer (or a bear for that matter.. not that I'd shoot a bear at those distances)...
 
Im going to bet most of the hunters he is taking out that are using a 300 PRC are shooting either Hornady ELD-X or Hornaday ELD-M.. Those two factory rounds appear to be far and away the most popular among 300 PRC "hunters".. Ive found this to be especially true with guys that are hunting WY, MT, ID, CO, UT, etc..

Granted the 300 PRC was designed to be a "long range" cartridge.. and the ELD-X and ELD-M are both "precision" projectiles.. so if what youre going for is accuracy at a distance, they are a really good combination with any well built 300 PRC..

But if youre going for bullet weight retention, straight line penetration, and overall terminal performance, I think the CX (or a TTSX) is a much, much better option (which is why I have gone with a CX in my PRC)..

My personal max engagement distance with the PRC is 400 yards.. and my intention is to keep shots below 300 if at all possible.. with a 190gr CX thats still trucking along at 2550 fps at 300 yards (roughly 2375 at 400 yards).. I think terminal performance will very likely be devastating on an elk or a deer (or a bear for that matter.. not that I'd shoot a bear at those distances)...
You are correct. I've seen some recovered CX bullets lately. One from an Addax hunt I conducted here at my ranch. Those bullets seem to perform well but may not open as widely as a TSX. No doubt they are a much better option than the others you mention.
 
+1 on barnes TTSX and TSX... I load it for every one of my rifles from 308-416... and have had incredible success on NA game as well as African PG..

That said, Im now in the process of giving the Hornady CX bullet a try... I bought a bunch of the Hornady "Outfitter" ammo for my 300 PRC that is loaded with the 190gr CX (hornadys version of the TTSX.. monometal, polymer tipped, etc).. At the time I bought the rifle only Hornday Outfitter and Hornady Precision Hunter factory ammo was available.. so I bought a couple of boxes of each to see what grouped best in the rifle.. but really just to provide a supply of brass so that I could handload up a bunch of TTSX and see how they did in the gun...

Im getting sub MOA groups out to 200 with the 190gr CX.. and all reviews/reports Ive read on the CX says performance is equal to (almost identical) to the TTSX... so.. Ive bought several more boxes of the factory outfitter load.. and Im headed out this afternoon for northern Idaho.. we're hunting elk and deer this weekend and next week..

Assuming it performs on elk and deer like I believe it will (assuming we see an elk and a deer lol).. I might start moving toward the CX bullet... theyre a bit less expensive than the barnes.. and the seem to be a little more readily available..

My 300 RUM was built and match ammo was created with Berger 210 VLD Hunting bullets. These are bullets that I use to shoot out to 2,000 yards. I’ve killed elk with the same load and bullet. That said, I have some Barnes LRX 212 Grain I’m eager to try. Because I really like Barnes…
 
No. Nos PTs have worked wonders on PG (from klipspringer to Eland). They're like an "A-Frame light."
 
Im going to bet most of the hunters he is taking out that are using a 300 PRC are shooting either Hornady ELD-X or Hornaday ELD-M.. Those two factory rounds appear to be far and away the most popular among 300 PRC "hunters".. Ive found this to be especially true with guys that are hunting WY, MT, ID, CO, UT, etc..

Granted the 300 PRC was designed to be a "long range" cartridge.. and the ELD-X and ELD-M are both "precision" projectiles.. so if what youre going for is accuracy at a distance, they are a really good combination with any well built 300 PRC..

But if youre going for bullet weight retention, straight line penetration, and overall terminal performance, I think the CX (or a TTSX) is a much, much better option (which is why I have gone with a CX in my PRC)..

My personal max engagement distance with the PRC is 400 yards.. and my intention is to keep shots below 300 if at all possible.. with a 190gr CX thats still trucking along at 2550 fps at 300 yards (roughly 2375 at 400 yards).. I think terminal performance will very likely be devastating on an elk or a deer (or a bear for that matter.. not that I'd shoot a bear at those distances)...

300 PRC is very popular in long range hunting and gaining popularity in hunting in general. If I didn’t have a custom 300 RUM, I’d likely have one built for long range. I also have a Winchester Model 70 XTR in 300 WBY Magnum, but it is not as predictable as my custom RUM. Still a great rifle and caliber. There are a few 300 Magnums now that are similar in ballistic performance and only gain an advantage with factory ammo. I reload, or have match ammo made for my rifles, so I’m not overly concerned with factory ammo.

There were a lot of 300 PRC’s at my last shooting school!
 
No. Nos PTs have worked wonders on PG (from klipspringer to Eland). They're like an "A-Frame light."
*admittedly (not always possible) throwing a solid in your fav DG rifle is best for preserving skins on the tiny antelope (got dik-dik w/ the 264 and a Nos PT and it needed some taxidermy work!) but others w/ 375 solids worked out perfectly. They do make solids for smaller bores...you just have to find 'em (easy w/ .30 cal-old FMJs).
 
At SCI last winter I was chatting with Bill Huber the founder and President of Swift Bullet Co. His perspective is a good one. He said, "Your bullet is the least expensive and most important component of your hunt". The cost fraction that a premium bullet adds to a Safari is minimal.

This past July in Limpopo, I took two rifles for the trip. A lovely little FN Browning Hi-Power Medallion grade in 308 Win which I loaded with Federal Fusion, heavy for caliber 180g bonded bullets. These are hardly "Premium" but do feature a bonded lead-core bullet that has a great reputation for massive, reliable expansion of 2.5-2.7x at normal hunting ranges. I did not use A-Frames because the 180g ones simply failed to group well with my old rifle. Same was true of the Federal Premium Terminal Accent ammo or some of the others like Barnes TTSX. I could have dropped down to a shorter, lighter projectile but since the 180g Fusions shot great for me out to 300y, and since I was only planning on using it on the smaller critters, I figured it would be fine. Boy was I wrong about that!

They were not fine, they were like shooting with Thor's Hammer! I ended up taking five animals from Duiker to Gemsbok at ranges from 20y to 202y and ALL of them dropped with one shot. All of the shots were total pass-thru and the furthest any ran was 60y. If you have ever had the experience of shooting a valuable game animal and having it run off as if nothing happened and have the PH tell you that you "Missed" or that was not a good shot and then find blood and know that you screwed the pooch and let down yourself and the PH, you know why you want to do everything possible to avoid that situation. A few extra bucks for premium bullets is a small price to pay to insure a successful hunt.

The 2nd rifle I took was another lovely big FN Browning Hi-Power Safari Grade in 375HH. It was loaded with Barnes TSX 300g copper bullets. My rifle shot them well and I have a lifetime supply of them. The plan was to use these on the larger Zebra, Gemsbok, etc as practice for a future Cape Buffalo hunt. The 308 was working so well that my PH dissuaded me from using the larger magnum except when we went out for Wildebeest. I took a nice Blue Wildebeest at 160y with the 375HH. The TSX did what it should and I have no complaints.

Final thoughts. On the last day of hunting on my Limpopo Safari, my PH and I sat on a mountaintop overseeing a pan to the South. The fine sense of contentment from having made every shot count and cleanly and efficiently taking each animal and performing well as a hunter (even though limping from a tweaked ankle all week), was one that stuck with me for weeks following my trip home. It was so satisfying and peaceful, that I would never want to spoil that by a botched shot that wounded an animal, leading to the loss of such or a lengthy tracking job that could have been avoided. I have experienced both and I can say without question the satisfaction of the former is far and away better than the utter despair of the later.

I put a lot of time, expense and effort into my hunt preparation. It is part of the fun of the project but it is also insurance for making sure that at the end of the hunt, I go home with that deep satisfaction of a job well done. Short answer is "YES", take the premium bullet that shoots the best in your rifle. The bullet placement is more important than the actual bullet but once it hits where it should, having the ability to penetrate reliably, even thru bone and finish the job with the least pain and anguish is absolutely the #2 priority.

I once asked my PH why it was necessary to get out and stalk so close to an animal as opposed to setting up on a hill and shooting from 400y, 500y or longer with a precision rifle? His reply was clear, concise and to the point. He said, "We do not fool around with longer shots in most cases because we are better hunters than that." Nuf Said.

Stalk slowly and quietly, get in close, aim fast but shoot slow and hit your target confidently and you will have a great hunt.

FN Browning 308.jpgBarnes 375HH 300g TSX.jpgGemsbok2.JPG
 
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No. Nos PTs have worked wonders on PG (from klipspringer to Eland). They're like an "A-Frame light."
At the time of my first safari (in 1983) Federal Premium loads with Partitions were considered to be the best hunting ammo available. I used then with 180 grains in a .30-06. I used them to take a steenbuck with ribs on both sides. Killed him DRT with entry and searching for holes not much different. I took other PG up through kudu and zebra. Now I'm using 200 grain AccuBonds in a .300 WM, but you'll never hear me badmouthing the Partition.
 
At the time of my first safari (in 1983) Federal Premium loads with Partitions were considered to be the best hunting ammo available. I used then with 180 grains in a .30-06. I used them to take a steenbuck with ribs on both sides. Killed him DRT with entry and searching for holes not much different. I took other PG up through kudu and zebra. Now I'm using 200 grain AccuBonds in a .300 WM, but you'll never hear me badmouthing the Partition.

I used 200gr Partitions in .300Win in July to take Impala & Bushbuck - both dropped in their tracks and the trackers laughed and said something in Shona to Bruce the PH laughed and said….
“They say you are a good shot and they appreciate your making their job much easier!”

I asked Dalton of Dalton & York his opinion on partition bullets and he said….
“Their a great all around softpoint and I confident in them, however many hunters have been bringing the Accubond lately and they also work quite well.”

I just had the partitions lest over from a moose hunt years ago when I couldn’t get 200gr Accubonds.

At shot show years ago a Nosler rep told me that the Accubond was designed to give partition performance with a cheaper production cost.
 
My 2¢, Use the best bullet for the game pursued that goes where you aim.
 
The cost of the plane ride there and back. The cost of a weeks' worth of camp, at a minimum.

Are you then going to cheap out on the one critical item that might be ok to use?

That's not how I approach things...
 
You are correct. I've seen some recovered CX bullets lately. One from an Addax hunt I conducted here at my ranch. Those bullets seem to perform well but may not open as widely as a TSX. No doubt they are a much better option than the others you mention.
I took a springbok, gemsbok, jackal, kudu, blue wildebeest, eland, blesbuck, and baboon with my 300 prc and was very happy with the on game performance of my 208 gr LRX.

Highly recommend it for those of you searching for a deep penetrating bullet for your 300 PRC. I recovered some on the offside on the kudu (broken offside humerus) and eland (just under the skin), some from frontal shots on a blue wildebeest down in the pelvis, and a finishing shot on the gemsbok that passed through and hit the ground. The round on the right hit a tree branch, hit the neck of my impala and was found just inside the thoracic cavity.

IMG_7645.jpeg
 
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I agree that bonded bullets are a simple one size fits all solution. Monumental perhaps a little less adaptable- great for larger animals but perhaps a little hard for small animals.

Cup and core work if you make sensible choices. They will behave poorly if your calibre is small for purpose and high velocity. For example they would be more reliable in a 3006 with 220 gr bullets at modest velocity.( I use this combo and the 180 gr as well and I would have to avoid shots that hit an eland shoulder for example) Push a 165 gr bullet at high velocity through a 300 prc and you are asking for trouble.
 
I used 200gr Partitions in .300Win in July to take Impala & Bushbuck - both dropped in their tracks and the trackers laughed and said something in Shona to Bruce the PH laughed and said….
“They say you are a good shot and they appreciate your making their job much easier!”

I asked Dalton of Dalton & York his opinion on partition bullets and he said….
“Their a great all around softpoint and I confident in them, however many hunters have been bringing the Accubond lately and they also work quite well.”

I just had the partitions lest over from a moose hunt years ago when I couldn’t get 200gr Accubonds.

At shot show years ago a Nosler rep told me that the Accubond was designed to give partition performance with a cheaper production cost.
The cheaper production cost is probably true, but I got a slightly different story from a Nosler rep that I met. He said that the Accubond was designed to provide Partition like performance on game in a more aerodynamic design. Hunters buy them to get a flatter shooting and harder hitting bullet at longer range. Personally, I find that they are more accurate in my rifles. Any company that makes any product does it to sell stuff. Other companies are making sleeker bullets and companies have to evolve or they go out of business.
 
In the last 150 years, we've gone from incremental improvement to incremental improvement. The latest incremental improvement is bonded bullets and mono-metal bullets.

At normal Africa distances of under 200 yards, you'll get superlative performance on everything, even with a 308 firing 180 gr A Frames or Barnes TSX. There is no point in going cheap on ammo when, all in, your hunt is going to cost you $10K.

No problems at all practicing with the "cheap stuff" at the range. But on live animals, go with premiums and save yourself some potential grief.
 
...FWIW, . The original founder of Swift Bullets was Lee Reed, not Bill Hober. Hober took over in 1994.
 

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Grz63 wrote on Werty's profile.
(cont'd)
Rockies museum,
CM Russel museum and lewis and Clark interpretative center
Horseback riding in Summer star ranch
Charlo bison range and Garnet ghost town
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Grz63 wrote on Werty's profile.
Good Morning,
I plan to visit MT next Sept.
May I ask you to give me your comments; do I forget something ? are my choices worthy ? Thank you in advance
Philippe (France)

Start in Billings, Then visit little big horn battlefield,
MT grizzly encounter,
a hot springs (do you have good spots ?)
Looking to buy a 375 H&H or .416 Rem Mag if anyone has anything they want to let go of
 
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