Range issues

[Ontario Hunter]

Him. he was wrong.
If the rifle is pointed at target, and range is hot. And person on the rifle aims to target he can squeeze the trigger anyway he likes (or being coached to do).
But arguable people are everywhere, you can find them everywhere.
I dont see any common range safety rules being broken.


Just to get idea: how many kids are there in the club, and how many firing lines is there?

Sad to hear this, but probably good idea.

Firing rooms are two modified conex containers attached end to end with a door separating them. Door has a window to avoid collisions. Only one room is used and the other is waiting room. Maybe seven benches in each room. Only five kids shooting at a time. I counted sixteen kids total one week but numbers seemed to have dropped while I was gone seven weeks hunting in Montana. Maybe because winter set in (though the buildings are well heated). No more than five in total showed up the night of the incident. Only one shift of shooters.

The daughter/range officer was around the corner in the firing room during shooting and not aware I was watching through the door window. It's why Parker briefly disappeared as he was leaving the firing room. She pulled him over and issued the threat.

The real source of the confrontation probably relates to something I said at the Association annual general meeting a few weeks before when the head honcho father complained that volunteers were needed at the juniors club nights. I pointed out it was already standing room only in that tiny building. Every kid shows up with a parent or guardian who is available to do volunteer work but he, his wife, and daughter were not delegating anything (he "supervised" and changed targets, daughter was instructor/range officer, and his wife scored the targets). There was nothing for volunteers to do and no room for more bodies to stand around. I did suggest that shooting start earlier so kids could get in bed at a decent hour on school night. That's when he blew his top. A real hothead. My suggestion was taken as an insult. It was my first general meeting for the rifle range. And my last! Quickly became clear the executive was not interested in hearing anything the members had to say. Typical. Anyway, this was obviously about me not my grandson. You all have confirmed my impression that Parker didn't violate any range protocol.

I should clarify. The night of the confrontation in the parking lot the father did specify the supposed violation: Parker had his "finger on the trigger when the bolt was closed." And how is the rifle supposed to shoot if he doesn't put his finger on the trigger when the bolt is closed? Then I suggested we go talk to the coach and his daughter to sort this out. Nope. That's when it got nasty.

 

[HankBuck]

This past year my eleven year-old grandson decided to try the juniors shooting club associated with my rifle range. The local Association actually has two ranges: one near town that I knew had a very checkered history, and a more primitive range rented on a property about 35 minutes away. I opted to be a member at the more remote range and avoid the local drama. But the juniors shoot at the local range. Every week it was a veritable Chinese fire drill with range being opened late, very disorganized, and little kids rarely getting home before 9:00 p.m. on a school night. But my grandson was really enjoying it and making lots of friends so what the hell. Eventually I did suggest they start earlier and the guy in charge literally blew up. "Nobody respects us poor volunteers, all we get is criticism, blah, blah, blah." I was quite shocked at his reaction. Then last month grandson was finally able to shoot my .22 instead of the club junk. I knew from past experience he is a very good shot with that rifle. However, his targets at the range have not been what he's capable of. Due to a snowstorm earlier in the day only a couple of kids showed up so I was able to watch him shoot through the window in the door to firing room. The problem was obvious. After he was on the gun he kept his trigger finger up on the side of the stock above the trigger guard and then jumped on the trigger to fire. When he was done I coached him to get on the trigger as soon as his cheek was on the gun and on target. Then squeeze the trigger. Second target and this time he does put his finger inside the trigger guard but still jumping on it to fire. A coach sat down next to him and I could see him demonstrating with his finger to not slap the trigger. So grandson proceeds to follow instructions. He finishes first and as he's leaving the room he briefly disappears out of sight. When he does come through the door, he goes straight to the back and puts his head in his hands. I wait for the targets to come in and he has done very well (except two extra flyers from the girl shooting at the target next to him). When I take the target to him I find he is sobbing. What happened? The head honcho's daughter, who is a self appointed safety officer, stopped him on the way off the firing line and said she would kick him out of the club if he continued to use that shooting technique. That didn't sound right. Must have been something else. I went to the firing room where she and the coach were cleaning up. Asked what she said and she confirmed it. "But if the gun is pointed down range and he's on the gun, his finger should be on the trigger so he can squeeze and fire, right?" Her response: "Not on my range." I turned to the coach: "You were coaching him to stop slapping the trigger, right?" He said "Of course." "So we were both coaching him to shoot the same way we shoot but you're telling him something different? I don't shoot targets that way and I don't believe you do either." She said nothing. I then assured my grandson that it was all a "misunderstanding." He did nothing wrong. Then the next week we were met in the parking lot by the head honcho father who informed us the juniors club was "not in your grandson's best interest" and ordered us to leave. Claimed I "cornered" his daughter which was BS. I said we should ask the coach what happened. He blocked me from going into the range building and at one point even grabbed me. He really scared my grandson. Very disturbing.

So my question is ... who was wrong? Is there something I don't know about range etiquette? I'm not a range nut (only joined last year) so maybe there's some different way of shooting at paper targets?

@Ontario Hunter - without being there my “guess” is that You are unaware of how strongly and abrasive you might have come off during your “conversation” with Coach & Head Honcho’s Daughter. Even if you were completely correct - your “delivery” appears to have been more “challenging” then that Woman was willing to tolerate. There are some people that can Not take being “questioned” yet alone criticized (and perceive Questions as “Criticism”). Even being “right” sometimes does Not matter and you end up losing what you are trying to accomplish - helping your Grandson. When dealing with people in a position of Authority, where you have No control or influance, you often need to act a bit “subservient” in order to get what you want (Not in Your nature or Mine). Rather then challenge or point out that they might be wrong - you make your remarks in the form of “questions” ie: Help me work with my Grandson so that he understands what you are teaching him? Please let me know what he did wrong so I may help him avoid mistakes in the future? Blah, blah, blah…kiss ass etc.. Then decide if you want the kid there ever again but it becomes Your decision.
I’m sure you’ve seen similar interactions at Little League or Pop Warner football and a parent that asks the Coach “Why isn’t My Son getting more playing time?” Is unlikely to get a positive outcome Vs. the Parent that says “Tell me what are some things I can work with my Son on so that he improves”?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

@Ontario Hunter - without being there my “guess” is that You are unaware of how strongly and abrasive you might have come off during your “conversation” with Coach & Head Honcho’s Daughter. Even if you were completely correct - your “delivery” appears to have been more “challenging” then that Woman was willing to tolerate. There are some people that can Not take being “questioned” yet alone criticized (and perceive Questions as “Criticism”). Even being “right” sometimes does Not matter and you end up losing what you are trying to accomplish - helping your Grandson. When dealing with people in a position of Authority, where you have No control or influance, you often need to act a bit “subservient” in order to get what you want (Not in Your nature or Mine). Rather then challenge or point out that they might be wrong - you make your remarks in the form of “questions” ie: Help me work with my Grandson so that he understands what you are teaching him? Please let me know what he did wrong so I may help him avoid mistakes in the future? Blah, blah, blah…kiss ass etc.. Then decide if you want the kid there ever again but it becomes Your decision.
I’m sure you’ve seen similar interactions at Little League or Pop Warner football and a parent that asks the Coach “Why isn’t My Son getting more playing time?” Is unlikely to get a positive outcome Vs. the Parent that says “Tell me what are some things I can work with my Son on so that he improves”?

Hank, there was nothing confrontational until the parking lot episode the following week which really caught me by surprise. Parker told me why he was upset and quite frankly I didn't believe him. We both know kids sometimes don't tell the truth, especially when it's uncomfortable for them to do so. So I expected he really had done something else I didn't see that was unsafe enough to warrant a threat of expulsion. I needed to know, obviously. So I went to her and asked what happened. I didn't jump all over her for being wrong because I didn't expect she was wrong. She confirmed that she instructed kids to keep their finger off the trigger until the moment they shoot. Exactly what Parker said. She expected kids on her range to shoot in a unique style which is not what the coach or I were trying to teach. In any event Parker did nothing that was unsafe and she did not disagree. No argument. Finding out whether or not he was unsafe was what was important to me. Not important who was right or wrong. I just needed to know how to make him safe. Turns out he never was unsafe. Which is not what I expected.

 

[375er]

Hank, there was nothing confrontational until the parking lot episode the following week which really caught me by surprise. Parker told me why he was upset and quite frankly I didn't believe him. We both know kids sometimes don't tell the truth, especially when it's uncomfortable for them to do so. So I expected he really had done something else I didn't see that was unsafe enough to warrant a threat of expulsion. I needed to know, obviously. So I went to her and asked what happened. I didn't jump all over her for being wrong because I didn't expect she was wrong. She confirmed that she instructed kids to keep their finger off the trigger until the moment they shoot. Exactly what Parker said. She expected kids on her range to shoot in a unique style which is not what the coach or I were trying to teach. In any event Parker did nothing that was unsafe and she did not disagree. No argument. Finding out whether or not he was unsafe was what was important to me. Not important who was right or wrong. I just needed to know how to make him safe. Turns out he never was unsafe. Which is not what I expected.

Walk away from these idiots and take 15 others with you. I have experienced clubs like this with rules that do not make sense. Likely they will never back down due to losing face. They have some lessons to learn.