Red dot or reflex sight for double rife

[edward]

if you cant put the bullet where your supposed to because your eyes are to old,give up hunting???dont think so,ill use the red dot if that gets the job done.the animal demands it.

 

[crs]

Go get em Ray!!!
Get close enough and whack em!

Edward, well said!

My favorite combo also includes a Talley peep sight:

 

[Russ-F]

I put a Noblex red dot sight on this rifle, mounted low it’s in just the right place relative to stock, cheek & eye for a quick shot.

 

[norfolk shooter]

i use a trijicon srs1,has a 1 3/4 inch dot.my sab.is in 9.3x74r.at 81 my eyes arnt what they used to be,at 50 yards with two different loads i am able to get what i call good groups.

View attachment 349351 View attachment 349355

I want to ask if a shooter is getting groups like that with the old express sights would it be worth them putting a reflex sight on??

 

[norfolk shooter]

I put a Noblex red dot sight on this rifle, mounted low it’s in just the right place relative to stock, cheek & eye for a quick shot.

View attachment 360516

Thats a nice mount for the sight. Where did that come from??

 

[Russ-F]

Thats a nice mount for the sight. Where did that come from??

I made the mount plate. The rib on the rifle has a dovetailed cut-out for a scope front base (there’s a removable insert fitted normally if no scope is used). I filed up plate which slides sideways into the dovetail (as the scope base would); the plate is then locked in place with a couple of set screws. The Noblex (Doctor) sight bolts to the plate. This allows the sight to be sitting at rib level rather than above it. The red dot is still slightly higher than the open sights line of sight but not by much & it allows correct placement of my cheek on the stock.

Below is a commercially made mount I initially obtained, it clamps on the rear scope base which is integral with the rib. It has the advantage of being removable via a knurled knob but it’s higher than I like, hence making my own.

There are available mounting plates for Noblex footprint sights which are only a flat plate with the 4 studs & two holes for the sight. The plate can be fitted to the top rib of most double rifles & it provides a fairly neat & low mounting solution.

The beauty of a properly stocked double rifle is the speed with which the sights can be aligned (or for that matter the rifle aligned without regard to the sights) & the further the cheek has to be away from the stock the harder this is to achieve consistently especially in the heat of the moment. With respect to those who have gone a different route - I’d find something like a Trijicon sight far to clumsy & above all far to high for use on a double rifle.

The Browning O/U rifle is the 7th double rifle I’ve owned. All the others were British S/S ones dating from the 1870’s through to the early 1900’s (nitro & BPE). A common characteristic was they were stocked in a manner that made than feel like a traditional British game gun & they put the eye where it needed to be for the open sights & at the time I was perfectly happy with using nothing but the open sights.

As regards the advantage I now find using a red dot sight - strictly speaking nobody can focus on target, front sight & rear sight perfectly all at the same time (as a competition pistol shooter knows well) - obviously the closer target is to the muzzle the easier it gets to have all three reasonably in focus but at 50 to 100 yards the focus on either sights or target will be somewhat compromised although for those with normal vision there’s no real problem. The last few years I’ve started to wear glasses for driving & shooting; they are -1.5 diopter so my eyes don’t need much help but when using open sights the -1.5 diopter still has the effect of putting the target in focus to the detriment of the open sights even when I try to focus on them - the foresight is ok but the rear sight remains a bit too blurred. When shooting at a paper target I can by taking my time still get decent results even with the less than ideal sight picture but there’s no time to concentrate on aligning somewhat hazy sights when shooting quickly & that’s where the red dot scores.

I find the red dot helps on the range as well. The Browning O/U in 8x57 will typically produce 100 yard 6 shot groups (fired as bottom/top x 3) that are 2 to 2-1/2” wide by 3” high. This is with a sandbag under my left hand as I hold the rifle. I’m pleased with how the rifle shoots & it also says to me that my aiming error with the red dot sight is fairly minimal (I use a target with a black diamond aiming mark which is larger than the red dot).

To sum up - I’ve been delighted with the low mounted Noblex sight as it allows quick shooting (if required) but it also allows quite precise aiming as well.

Regards
Russell

 

[norfolk shooter]

I made the mount plate. The rib on the rifle has a dovetailed cut-out for a scope front base (there’s a removable insert fitted normally if no scope is used). I filed up plate which slides sideways into the dovetail (as the scope base would); the plate is then locked in place with a couple of set screws. The Noblex (Doctor) sight bolts to the plate. This allows the sight to be sitting at rib level rather than above it. The red dot is still slightly higher than the open sights line of sight but not by much & it allows correct placement of my cheek on the stock.

View attachment 360584



Below is a commercially made mount I initially obtained, it clamps on the rear scope base which is integral with the rib. It has the advantage of being removable via a knurled knob but it’s higher than I like, hence making my own.

View attachment 360582

There are available mounting plates for Noblex footprint sights which are only a flat plate with the 4 studs & two holes for the sight. The plate can be fitted to the top rib of most double rifles & it provides a fairly neat & low mounting solution.

The beauty of a properly stocked double rifle is the speed with which the sights can be aligned (or for that matter the rifle aligned without regard to the sights) & the further the cheek has to be away from the stock the harder this is to achieve consistently especially in the heat of the moment. With respect to those who have gone a different route - I’d find something like a Trijicon sight far to clumsy & above all far to high for use on a double rifle.

The Browning O/U rifle is the 7th double rifle I’ve owned. All the others were British S/S ones dating from the 1870’s through to the early 1900’s (nitro & BPE). A common characteristic was they were stocked in a manner that made than feel like a traditional British game gun & they put the eye where it needed to be for the open sights & at the time I was perfectly happy with using nothing but the open sights.

As regards the advantage I now find using a red dot sight - strictly speaking nobody can focus on target, front sight & rear sight perfectly all at the same time (as a competition pistol shooter knows well) - obviously the closer target is to the muzzle the easier it gets to have all three reasonably in focus but at 50 to 100 yards the focus on either sights or target will be somewhat compromised although for those with normal vision there’s no real problem. The last few years I’ve started to wear glasses for driving & shooting; they are -1.5 diopter so my eyes don’t need much help but when using open sights the -1.5 diopter still has the effect of putting the target in focus to the detriment of the open sights even when I try to focus on them - the foresight is ok but the rear sight remains a bit too blurred. When shooting at a paper target I can by taking my time still get decent results even with the less than ideal sight picture but there’s no time to concentrate on aligning somewhat hazy sights when shooting quickly & that’s where the red dot scores.

I find the red dot helps on the range as well. The Browning O/U in 8x57 will typically produce 100 yard 6 shot groups (fired as bottom/top x 3) that are 2 to 2-1/2” wide by 3” high. This is with a sandbag under my left hand as I hold the rifle. I’m pleased with how the rifle shoots & it also says to me that my aiming error with the red dot sight is fairly minimal (I use a target with a black diamond aiming mark which is larger than the red dot).

To sum up - I’ve been delighted with the low mounted Noblex sight as it allows quick shooting (if required) but it also allows quite precise aiming as well.

Regards
Russell

The cheek weld issue is part of the reason why I'm not too keen on fitting a red dot or anything for that matter to my double. I think I shoot it reasonably well with the open sights.

That was at 25mts off hand (no support)

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Akin to incest, its ugly and against all that's holy...Take a classic old double gun and hang Christmas tree lights on it....The gun is used at an average of 20 yards and if you cannot brain or heart shoot an elephant at 20 yards with a shallow V or a peep sight, you don't belong in Africa, you need to sell shoes at Sears!!! Hunt like those that came before you..A bit of humor here, well almost..

Agreed, doubles are for close in, half the fun is getting that close. If you need to take a further shot, use a bolt or such with a scope. Horses for courses. Haven't I read a dozen times on this forum that the whole point of the second barrel is the rapid follow up shot because the beast is coming. Then i read, by an experienced African PH that when that situation arises you don't want anything in the way of your sights. Looks like a few contradictions arise from optical sight aids of any sort on a safari double.

 

[Russ-F]

Agreed, doubles are for close in, half the fun is getting that close. If you need to take a further shot, use a bolt or such with a scope. Horses for courses. Haven't I read a dozen times on this forum that the whole point of the second barrel is the rapid follow up shot because the beast is coming. Then i read, by an experienced African PH that when that situation arises you don't want anything in the way of your sights. Looks like a few contradictions arise from optical sight aids of any sort on a safari double.

Kevin,
Agreed & in a ‘charge’ or situation bullet placement probably depends as much on good fit & familiarity with the rifle as it does the sights of any type; but not all doubles are used for stopping charges of large annoyed animals at a few yards. As you’ll know they have a place for quick shots at smaller game at slightly more extended distances which is where a red dot sight may be the best option depending on the individual sportsman. Certainly a low mounted sight of the Noblex type isn’t an impediment to such shooting. I can’t say that for any of the larger format ‘tube’ type red dot sights though.

 

[norfolk shooter]

Well I just did some dry fire training in the garden (dont worry I dont have neighbours) and I found I have been snatching the trigger. I think daily training is needed to get familiar with the rifle. Saying that the trigger pull is rather heavy but I suppose they are meant to be like that on a DG double. Dont want to be going off at the wrong time now do we!!!!!

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

How does one cure a snatch?

 

[norfolk shooter]

How does one cure a snatch?

dry firing. So aimed shots taken as you would in the field

 

[edward]

snap caps,of coarse???

 

[Gemsbok45]

The Leupold DPPro would be my choice and it’s the choice of the US military,Low profile and rugged with a 2.5 MOA dot. Made in America!

 

[chashardy]

I was watching an episode of Hornady's Dark and Dangerous last night and one segment was Hornady's granddaughter hunting with Mark Valaro of Chifuti Safaris in Zimbabwe. He was carrying what I believe to be a Heym double rifle with what looked like a Trijicon RMR red dot sight.
I have noticed a quite a few hunters and PH's on those shows and on youtube videos using red dot sights on doubles.

 

[curtism1234]

I think we are starting to see a generational shift as it pertains to hunters and PH's using reflex sights. The old timers are set in their ways but they are starting to get to an age where they are not hunting/working anymore. The younger generation never grew up shooting iron sights so they "need" something that resembles a cross hair. Also, the reflex sights are built better - years ago there were many technical problems with them not turning on and off correctly. I fell victim to that and swore never to buy a reflex again. That may be fixed, I don't know, but I will be considering a red dot

 

[chashardy]

I think we are starting to see a generational shift as it pertains to hunters and PH's using reflex sights. The old timers are set in their ways but they are starting to get to an age where they are not hunting/working anymore. The younger generation never grew up shooting iron sights so they "need" something that resembles a cross hair. Also, the reflex sights are built better - years ago there were many technical problems with them not turning on and off correctly. I fell victim to that and swore never to buy a reflex again. That may be fixed, I don't know, but I will be considering a red dot

As I have posted before on AH, I am sold on the Trijicon RMR red dot sight. I put one on my 375 H&H double and liked it so much I bought on for my Beretta M9A3 pistol.

 

[Scrumbag]

Hi folks,

Couple of short segments on using red dot sights and scopes.

Interestingly these chaps are using the side mounted red dot with a scope that goes down fairly low in terms of mag range (1.8x). I’d have thought that would have been low power enough.

I see this sort of set up being more advantageous when you have something like a fixed 8x56 (eg walking to or from your blind / high seat for night time pigs) or if you have a scope with higher mag like 4-16, 6-24 or 5-30.

This is the set up in action.

I think worth noting that I think both these rifles are .243W and those Blaser stocks are very forgiving - I’m not sure I’d want the rifle canted in my shoulder with something like my 7x64 or 404J!



Still wonder why you wouldn’t want the red dot mounted on the left side of the scope for a right handed shooter if you are supposed to use a red dot with both eyes why not maintain your cheek weld?

Scrummy

 

[Tanks]

... Saying that the trigger pull is rather heavy but I suppose they are meant to be like that on a DG double. Dont want to be going off at the wrong time now do we!!!!!

I have 1.125 lbs trigger pulls on my competition handguns for IPSC/USPSA, they don't go off at the wrong time even though I am running with them and also shooting on the move.

It is TRAINING not heavy trigger pulls that prevent negligent discharges.

 

[curtism1234]

@Scrumbag

I have a 2.5x (pretty close to 1.8 I would imagine). At 25 yards on a standing or walking animal, I think its OK - full but OK. I've finished off a buck deer before who stood up again in a thicket 10 feet away from me --- total brown blur.

Like your cheek weld concern, personally, I think having 1 sight system is the way to go. If you are a scope person, take your chances with a 1x. If you prefer red dot or iron sights, know your limitations. Yes you could "plan" on removing your scope after the first shot, but its also very likely you could drop/stun a buffalo, make a quick reposition, and he stands up again right in front of you.

I will not go on a buffalo hunt until my daughter is grown, but I plan to only use Iron sights.