SCI & DSC What are the differences

[Rakman]

GSCO is a very small convention. It’s nice in that it’s more personable and easier to visit with friends and outfitters but its drastically, and that’s an understatement, smaller than SCI or DSC. It’s not quite been the same since Dennis passed.

 

[Philip Glass]

Conservation and herd management should be part of every hunter’s dna. Just because B&C is encouraging the harvest of animals in their prime, should SCI get a free pass? In my experience, Europeans are much more focused on game management than North Americans. They are keen to shoot cull animals past their prime. I respect their approach. I have very little respect for a frenetic attempt to fill the bakkie with species just to qualify for that next SCI award. That may qualify as hunting in some folk’s book, it doesn’t in mine.

Ok, one more time, yes there are a tiny few who chase awards to the point it is annoying. If it were not for SCI, Convention, and its recordbook there are scores of species and hunting destinations that the average hunter would never know about. The record book is a collection of data that preserves what animals were taken and where. I personally dont think we should just shoot them all, eat them, and move on. I find it much more respectful to the animal and the management to memorialize the animal and its life.
Most hunters that level these kind of accusations at other hunters for their choice of hunts actually cant afford those hunts and thus it is easier to criticize. If I hear one more hillbilly tell me "I'd never shoot a lion" I am going to puke!
I am a game rancher, so dont get me started on game management. We will be here all day!
Regards,
Philip

 

[Philip Glass]

Can we expand on this and add in the GSCO Hunter & Outfitter Convention? I have only been to a few SCI events, back when they were in Vegas. I have not been to DSC and while Texas isn't too far from California, getting my wife to go to Vegas is pretty easy and she can have fun in the casinos while I am at the event.

Anybody been to the Grand Slam Club convention? How does that compare to SCI? I am planning on attending this coming January. I suspect they may focus more on North America, but they do have the international slams for sheep and goats that hopefully will bring some people offering show specials I might find interesting.

No but I have been to the Wild Sheep Convention in Reno. It is a lot of fun and a different crowd there. It is just hard for me to go because I attend SCI for the full week plus make an appearance at DSC so another convention is tough to schedule.

 

[mark-hunter]

The european managment system has its flaws. One is pricing per inch of horn,
With that approach many hunters never get a chance to shoot a proper stag.

 

[WAB]

Philip,
Just to be clear, I support SCI and am a member. I think they do tremendous work in DC and in conservation in general. However, like any person or organization, they are not perfect. IMO, they could improve their impact tremendously if they would take a long hard look at their awards program and systems of measurement. Well respected folks, Kevin Robertson for one, have offered them advice, to which they don't appear to be open. Enough said.
Bill

Ok, one more time, yes there are a tiny few who chase awards to the point it is annoying. If it were not for SCI, Convention, and its recordbook there are scores of species and hunting destinations that the average hunter would never know about. The record book is a collection of data that preserves what animals were taken and where. I personally dont think we should just shoot them all, eat them, and move on. I find it much more respectful to the animal and the management to memorialize the animal and its life.
Most hunters that level these kind of accusations at other hunters for their choice of hunts actually cant afford those hunts and thus it is easier to criticize. If I hear one more hillbilly tell me "I'd never shoot a lion" I am going to puke!
I am a game rancher, so dont get me started on game management. We will be here all day!
Regards,

 

[wesheltonj]

Philip,
Just to be clear, I support SCI and am a member. I think they do tremendous work in DC and in conservation in general. However, like any person or organization, they are not perfect. IMO, they could improve their impact tremendously if they would take a long hard look at their awards program and systems of measurement. Well respected folks, Kevin Robertson for one, have offered them advice, to which they don't appear to be open. Enough said.
Bill

I am a life member of SCI and DSC. The problem with SCI is they can not afford to get rid of the circles and slams. I don't personally know anyone who likes those awards (Circle and Slams). But SCI earns too much money off those programs. Other measuring books, Roland Ward, Boone and Crockett, CIC all require large animals to make the book. Whereas SCI have Silver and Bronze animals that would never make any of the other books for all for the sole purpose of producing income for SCI (IMO). And I fully admit that I am a hypocrite in that I have Silver and Bronze animals in SCI Record Book.

 

[Happy Myles]

The Dallas convention is annually held first and the exhibtors are fresh, relaxed and have more time slots available. All major operators are there. i have nothing against SCI and have attended for decades. Both are great shows. I am a life member of both organizations. My first SCI meeting was at a restaurant named, The Tail Of The Cock, on the Sunset Strip.

 

[mrpoindexter]

I am a life member of SCI and DSC. The problem with SCI is they can not afford to get rid of the circles and slams. I don't personally know anyone who likes those awards (Circle and Slams). But SCI earns too much money off those programs. Other measuring books, Roland Ward, Boone and Crockett, CIC all require large animals to make the book. Whereas SCI have Silver and Bronze animals that would never make any of the other books for all for the sole purpose of producing income for SCI (IMO). And I fully admit that I am a hypocrite in that I have Silver and Bronze animals in SCI Record Book.

While they don't have a record book, doesn't GSCO have something similar where you can submit animals that are below the record book level for the purpose of tracking your slam?

I know there is an incentive to hunt an animal to submit into the record book, but I have taken giraffe, zebra and ostrich as well and those are not going to be in any book. Heck, I am looking for honey badger next month as well, so even if I wasn't chasing a slam/circle, I probably would be going for them anyway. I already was planning on my Tiny Ten before SCI added it to their list of slams.

 

[Philip Glass]

Philip,
Just to be clear, I support SCI and am a member. I think they do tremendous work in DC and in conservation in general. However, like any person or organization, they are not perfect. IMO, they could improve their impact tremendously if they would take a long hard look at their awards program and systems of measurement. Well respected folks, Kevin Robertson for one, have offered them advice, to which they don't appear to be open. Enough said.
Bill

Certainly that can be debated and there are already new options available for taking older animals. Its called the Methuselah award.
Maybe this will satisfy some of you but others will just keep grinding on SCI sadly.

https://safariclub.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Methuselah-Entry-Form.pdf

 

[WAB]

Philip,

This discussion reminds me of our current political climate. The majority of people think certain politicians are all good or all evil, whereas the truth always lies somewhere in between. I supported Trump as President, but recognized him as a deeply flawed individual who, in spite of good advisors and policies, could not control his personal behavior.

Likewise, I see SCI as a beneficial organization with some deep flaws I would like to see corrected. If you see them as perfect, so be it, we will just have to respectfully disagree.

And yes, I will keep grinding. No improvement will be made if members don’t speak up.

Bill

 

[Fixfire]

Awards, slams, circles, record books, etc. perpetuates the awareness, appreciation, and pursuit of these animals - which ultimately leads to their conservation. While not everyone’s cup-of-tea, I don’t see any negatives. I agree with the jealousy aspect of criticism - or at least extreme nit picking.

 

[mrpoindexter]

Awards, slams, circles, record books, etc. perpetuates the awareness, appreciation, and pursuit of these animals - which ultimately leads to their conservation. While not everyone’s cup-of-tea, I don’t see any negatives. I agree with the jealousy aspect of criticism - or at least extreme nit picking.

Here is just one example from yesterday on another hunting web site:

Never understood why anyone would want to kill an elephant or a giraffe. The sheer cost indicates it's more of an exhibition of one's money and bragging rights rather than feeding the natives.

I asked if he made the same statement about all sheep hunts or anybody who shoots an Alaskan brown or grizzly bear, since all those hunts cost more than my elephant hunt. The cheapest sheep hunts cost more than my elephant and both my giraffe combined.

We will never be successful standing firm against the antis if we are full of infighting. I am an exclusive bow hunter, but I am not going to denigrate rifle hunting or those who partake in it. They succeeded in winning against CBL and they are going to take that playbook and use it again and again to chip away anywhere they can. Elephants, rhinos, giraffe, wolves, and so on down the list until the only thing we can hunt will be squirrels and they will have to be killed with our bare hands and then they will come after us saying that is just animal cruelty.

Every time we decide to draw a personal line to defend behind what is the current front line is an admission of defeat in some area. We did not defeat the Soviet Union by saying "we will defend America but will not defend countries where I don't live." No, we had to oppose them on all fronts and even then, it was a long war. Wars are not generally won by ceding ground unless you are laying a trap and I don't really see us doing that. Too often we are seeking peace in our time with an enemy whose leadership wants us to go extinct.

 

[Philip Glass]

Philip,

This discussion reminds me of our current political climate. The majority of people think certain politicians are all good or all evil, whereas the truth always lies somewhere in between. I supported Trump as President, but recognized him as a deeply flawed individual who, in spite of good advisors and policies, could not control his personal behavior.

Likewise, I see SCI as a beneficial organization with some deep flaws I would like to see corrected. If you see them as perfect, so be it, we will just have to respectfully disagree.

And yes, I will keep grinding. No improvement will be made if members don’t speak up.

Bill

Bill,
Sure I know that all large organizations have problems. People gripe about NRA all the time and justifiably so. But we cant leave our best advocate we have to work to improve what they do.
I just think hating on the awards is unproductive. I wont ever be an inner circle of any kind but I like that we recognize them for what they do.
I am personally working hard for SCI as VP of the San Angelo Chapter. For three years running we are #2 worldwide out of 150 chapters in terms of funds raised to SCI. There are many things we are working on that need to change.
Regards,
Philip

 

[JGRaider]

As far as SCI goes, I think the local chapters have a much better reputation than the national one. IMHO SCI has become an organization of blue bloods, stuffed shirts, elite, etc who thrive on this BS awards and circle of honor BS. I know lots of outfitters from all over the world who share the same sentiment, several very, very prominent ones who no longer support the show and put their time and money into DSC. I don't blame them personally.

 

[MD Driver]

Whoa, that’s intense. Well, in my lower-left-hand corner of the big picture, I can only report with what I’ve seen and experienced over the years. Essentially, they’re very similar, and I’ve not seen any competition or animosity on display at all. If there is any, they’re doing a fine job of keeping it on the down low. Hmmmm…. why do this? Oh well.