Scope or Red dot for double rifle

[Tom Y. Hanssen]

Just bought myself a double rifle in .470NE caliber. Considering installing a scope or red dot sight in addition to the open iron sights. Any recommendations on which to choose?

 

[VertigoBE]

As an answer to the question of the title of the thread, I would say, "it depends on the caliber/purpose of the rifle".

Seeing that you mentioned .470NE as a caliber. This is not a long range, or dawn/dusk rifle for some elusive small antelope, but rather almost in the stopping rifle category, so definitely red dot, or even just irons. The use of a .470NE is most appropriate for those short range, close encounters in often heavy brush. Any scope magnification would be detrimental to it's usefulness as this caliber and rifle was originally intended.

Depending on your eyes/preferences, I would go for iron's (you'll likely use it on dangerous game, with shooting distances probably within 50meters instead of above. Or if you prefer a red dot.

But then again, I'm only repeating what other, much more experienced, members of this forum have already said many times over.

 

[Rubberhead]

I am not an expert but...I wouldn't do a scope, especially on a side-by-side double because the scope overhangs the breech when loading/reloading/unloading making it difficult to get to the cartridges. A red dot seems to go really well with the point-and-shoot nature of a side-by-side double rifle.

 

[Tom Y. Hanssen]

As an answer to the question of the title of the thread, I would say, "it depends on the caliber/purpose of the rifle".

Seeing that you mentioned .470NE as a caliber. This is not a long range, or dawn/dusk rifle for some elusive small antelope, but rather almost in the stopping rifle category, so definitely red dot, or even just irons. The use of a .470NE is most appropriate for those short range, close encounters in often heavy brush. Any scope magnification would be detrimental to it's usefulness as this caliber and rifle was originally intended.

Depending on your eyes/preferences, I would go for iron's (you'll likely use it on dangerous game, with shooting distances probably within 50meters instead of above. Or if you prefer a red dot.

But then again, I'm only repeating what other, much more experienced, members of this forum have already said many times over.

Thanks for the good input. As my eyesight these days makes it difficult to focus on the iron sights and get a comfortable feel for that, I am looking for alternative. I bought the Blaser RD17 red dot to use on my Blaser R8 and .375 H&H Mag barrel. Finds this too small to give a good view. Am used to scope, but as you say I am not going to use this rifle for anything further than 50-60 yards.

 

[Red Leg]

I am not an expert but...I wouldn't do a scope, especially on a side-by-side double because the scope overhangs the breech when loading/reloading/unloading making it difficult to get to the cartridges. A red dot seems to go really well with the point-and-shoot nature of a side-by-side double rifle.

Depends on the double. My Blaser S2 shoots .375, 500-416, and 30-06 barrels to MOA from each barrel and composite four shot groups in the 2-inch range. I sight-in on the right barrel and thus have PBR accuracy to the capability of the cartridge. The second shot is only a few MOA away regardless of range. I have taken buffalo at sixty yards with it and waterbuck beyond 200. The scope is quickly dismountable for a follow-up in the thick stuff.

I have a nearly hundred-year-old 9.3x74R that is equally accurate and set up the same way.

An illuminated 1x6 is exactly the same as using a red dot if set on 1X, and obviously, far more flexible in the field. I do not find the overhang to be particularly troublesome.

 

[Rubberhead]

Depends on the double. My Blaser S2 shoots .375, 500-416, and 30-06 barrels to MOA from each barrel and composite four shot groups in the 2-inch range. I sight-in on the right barrel and thus have PBR accuracy to the capability of the cartridge. The second shot is only a few MOA away regardless of range. I have taken buffalo at sixty yards with it and waterbuck beyond 200. The scope is quickly dismountable for a follow-up in the thick stuff.

I have a nearly hundred-year-old 9.3x74R that is equally accurate and set up the same way.

An illuminated 1x6 is exactly the same as using a red dot if set on 1X, and obviously, far more flexible in the field. I do not find the overhang to be particularly troublesome.

Sorry if I was confusing, I was talking about the clearance between the top tang and the bottom of the eyepiece when trying to get to the chambers for loading/unloading.

 

[Red Leg]

Sorry if I was confusing, I was talking about the clearance between the top tang and the bottom of the eyepiece when trying to get to the chambers for loading/unloading.

View attachment 452020

I understood you perfectly. I have never found it an issue. The slight inconvenience is worth the greater capability with the rifle. All that said, you are correct that a .470 would likely be better served with a red dot.

 

[The Engineer]

In my seventies I find open sights difficult. For that reason I use a red dot. On a 470 I would not consider a scope for the following reasons:

1. Much easier to hit a scope and knock it off zero. 2. In general, it is slower to establish a sight picture with a scope due the height of the scope above the cheekpiece vs. the iron sights or a red dot. With the higher scope I cannot maintain a good cheek weld but the red dot is not as high as a scope so I obtain a better cheek weld. 3. The additional weight of the scope can impact the regulation of a double rifle.

Just food for thought..

 

[Tom Y. Hanssen]

In my seventies I find open sights difficult. For that reason I use a red dot. On a 470 I would not consider a scope for the following reasons:

1. Much easier to hit a scope and knock it off zero. 2. In general, it is slower to establish a sight picture with a scope due the height of the scope above the cheekpiece vs. the iron sights or a red dot. With the higher scope I cannot maintain a good cheek weld but the red dot is not as high as a scope so I obtain a better cheek weld. 3. The additional weight of the scope can impact the regulation of a double rifle.

Just food for thought..View attachment 451851

Great and sensible advice. Thanks, will definitely keep these in mind

 

[Philip Glass]

I have the Kahles Helia red dot and love it. It is so small it does not detract from the classic double rifle the way a scope or the other big clunky red dot sights out there Do. Take a look at it.

 

[Rare Breed]

As an answer to the question of the title of the thread, I would say, "it depends on the caliber/purpose of the rifle".

Seeing that you mentioned .470NE as a caliber. This is not a long range, or dawn/dusk rifle for some elusive small antelope, but rather almost in the stopping rifle category, so definitely red dot, or even just irons. The use of a .470NE is most appropriate for those short range, close encounters in often heavy brush. Any scope magnification would be detrimental to it's usefulness as this caliber and rifle was originally intended.

Depending on your eyes/preferences, I would go for iron's (you'll likely use it on dangerous game, with shooting distances probably within 50meters instead of above. Or if you prefer a red dot.

But then again, I'm only repeating what other, much more experienced, members of this forum have already said many times over.

+1

 

[Tanks]

For a .470 NE I'd go with a low profile 1 MOA red dot like Trijicon. If you had a .450/400 I could see putting a scope on it, but in my opinion a .470 NE is up close and personal DG rifle.

I don't know where you are located but if the rifle is not a Heym with red dot accommodations already made, you could send the barrel to JJ for him to get a groove for the red dot milled on the rib and he will also sell you the Trijicon (they are hard to find at times).

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

If this double was made for you and fitted of course you will find that mounting the rifle brings the sights into perfect alignment and shots will be instinctively accurate. Then a red dot may actually detract from that perfect situation because you will need to raise your head, albeit a little. If the double is off the shelf or pre-owned then you may get very lucky and be a perfect fit, but if it isn't your next best choice would be to fit a red dot, and like @Philip Glass I like the Kahles Helia. It is small and looks right on a double, but with nice big window and side loading battery.
If the double is particularly good and you plan to hold onto it forever you may consider getting it adjusted for perfect fit.
A scope would be better suited for a smaller calibre double with longer range capability and expectation, but of course you will now be lifting your head much further and the special feeling of being at one with the wood and metal is out the window.

 

[wesheltonj]

Doctor mount and Leica red dot.

 

[chashardy]

I tried my 375 H&H double with the iron sights, but my old eyes couldn't hit the paper. Installed a Trijicon RMR red dot sight and can now shoot tight groups.
Red dot sight is definitely the choice for a 470 NE double. I see quite a few on hunting videos on youtube and some carried by PH's.

 

[Tanks]

If this double was made for you and fitted of course you will find that mounting the rifle brings the sights into perfect alignment and shots will be instinctively accurate. Then a red dot may actually detract from that perfect situation because you will need to raise your head, albeit a little. If the double is off the shelf or pre-owned then you may get very lucky and be a perfect fit, but if it isn't your next best choice would be to fit a red dot, and like @Philip Glass I like the Kahles Helia. It is small and looks right on a double, but with nice big window and side loading battery.
If the double is particularly good and you plan to hold onto it forever you may consider getting it adjusted for perfect fit.
A scope would be better suited for a smaller calibre double with longer range capability and expectation, but of course you will now be lifting your head much further and the special feeling of being at one with the wood and metal is out the window.

It depends on where the red dot is on the rifle. On my .500 NE I don't need to raise my head to look through the red dot.

My 9.3x74R was designed to use with a scope. So, when I got measured we raised the comb height enough so I would not need to raise my head.

 

[Tom Y. Hanssen]

I have the Kahles Helia red dot and love it. It is so small it does not detract from the classic double rifle the way a scope or the other big clunky red dot sights out there Do. Take a look at it.

Will do, thanks

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

i have a burris fast fire 3 on my 416 rem mag, have used it for many years now
one of my ph's also use a burris fast fire 3 and he absolutely loves it
never had a days hassle, never gone out of zero
it is so easy to just pick up and shoot

 

[Foxi]

I also use a burris fast fire 3 in cal. .458 on my Ferlach double rifle.
On good days I can hit a 3cm circle at 100m with one barrel.
The other one is a bit twitchy
That must be enough for everything.
I just don't think it is particularly stable for rough hunting use.
What I don't like is, that the light spots are a bit frayed and don't have clear edges.

A Bavarian hunter once had to be rescued from our mountains by helicopter because during a deer hunt. His .375 H+H double went off two shots at once and smashed his skull.
In the rush it can happen, that you forget to press your gun properly against your shoulder.

Blaser has brought out a new red dot, similar to the Aimpoint. I shot with it and it is great.
But the big things are just not nice on elegant rifles.
For safety reasons I would never mount a scope on a really heavy rifle (.450 up).

the 3 cm circle is not there,
I just tried a new load
But all with Burris fast fire 3 in .458 Win.Mag.
There are worse results with double rifles when you are shooting on 100 meter.

 

[mneilh]

I have installed a Burris Fastfire III on my .458 Win boltgun and also on my 470 double. Reliable, fast and a great aid to accurate shooting. The red dot (in my opinion) is all that is needed for these larger calibres - and no chance of getting smacked in the head from recoil, which is not hard to do with a scope in these calibres. Red dot dot sights are the ducks nuts !