Shot Opportunity - What is that exactly?

[BRICKBURN]

...........
Hopefully my clarifications will unruffle any feathers I hadn't intended to ruffle at this time.

Whaat!

You did have a in your post.
I get the banter and I know where you were coming from.
Thanks for clarifying though.

 

[BRICKBURN]

.......... Moderation is in the eye of the beholder, ............

FYI.

"(DHHS and USDA 1995).
Moderation is defined as no more than one drink per day for women
and no more than two drinks per day for men."

One definition in the literature.

Abstainer: drinks less than 0.01 fl
oz alcohol per day (i.e., fewer than
12 drinks in the past year)
•
Light drinker: drinks 0.01 to 0.21
fl oz alcohol per day (i.e., 1 to 13
drinks per month)
•
Moderate drinker: drinks 0.22 to
1.00 fl oz alcohol per day (i.e., 4 to
14 drinks per week)
•
Heavier drinker: drinks more than
1.00 fl oz alcohol per day (i.e.,
more than 2 drinks per day).


https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh23-1/05-14.pdf

 

[rookhawk]

Whaat!
View attachment 171314

You did have a in your post.
I get the banter and I know where you were coming from.
Thanks for clarifying though.

Who's the hot chick?

 

[BRICKBURN]

Spike T and Bluey ?

Come to the Aurora and you can believe it when you see it. (Prices in Vegas add to the bill of course. So does PR's Champagne selection.
Missed @PeteG here at the show and now have to track him down in Vegas. He's already there practicing.

 

[rookhawk]

It will go like this in the future with bookings: "So are you boys hunting with us alcoholics?

Answer: "Um no, but I think I speak for all of us here...for the duration of the hunt we're willing to try!"

FYI.

"(DHHS and USDA 1995).
Moderation is defined as no more than one drink per day for women
and no more than two drinks per day for men."

One definition in the literature.

Abstainer: drinks less than 0.01 fl
oz alcohol per day (i.e., fewer than
12 drinks in the past year)
•
Light drinker: drinks 0.01 to 0.21
fl oz alcohol per day (i.e., 1 to 13
drinks per month)
•
Moderate drinker: drinks 0.22 to
1.00 fl oz alcohol per day (i.e., 4 to
14 drinks per week)
•
Heavier drinker: drinks more than
1.00 fl oz alcohol per day (i.e.,
more than 2 drinks per day).


https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh23-1/05-14.pdf

 

[BRICKBURN]

Who's the hot chick?

Wrong thread https://www.africahunting.com/threa...nternational-sci-convention-2017.32881/page-3

 

[BRICKBURN]

Now back to ensuring that we understand and communicate effectively with the Outfitter.....

 

[Steve Scott]

This kind of gray area is the cause of many a problem between clients and outfitters. As an attorney, my best advice is if you don't understand or if the wording is vague, talk it over, reach an agreement (or not) and put it in WRITING.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Has anyone encountered this "shot opportunity" on a hunt?

 

[Hank2211]

I'm not sure at this point if anyone wants to get back to the original post, but here's a take on this.

On my most recent hunt, to Ethiopia, while the days passed and we were seeing no mountain nyala, my PH casually mentioned that his company guaranteed a "shot opportunity" on all mountain nyala hunts. I asked what that meant. He said if I did not get a "reasonable" shot at a mountain nyala, I was welcome to return for another hunt at no outfitter's charge. I would still have to pay government fees (I think).

I didn't make too much of this, but I took it as a sign that the outfitter was confident in their areas and their team. I would get a shot at the animal I was looking for. For that reason, I didn't get into the fine details of what this guarantee meant I just took it as a good sign.

And in the result, not only did I get the beast in question, but I'm looking to hunt with the same people elsewhere. This guarantee was just another feature of what I found to be a quality operation.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I guess that is the positive twist on the concept.
"Guarantee" confidence in the area mentality puts another twist to this scenario.
Thanks Hank.

I suppose this starts to really have something to do with the species that is being hunted. In Ethiopia you accept that your money (trophy fee, government fees, etc) two years beforehand at booking that type of hunt. That type of specialty hunt has very few, if any, options.

 

[siml]

@Hank2211 , I admire your outfitter, that's a class act, very few outfitters can be put in that class.

 

[BRICKBURN]

@Hank2211 , I admire your outfitter, that's a class act, very few outfitters can be put in that class.

I agree Simon, but that was on a very high end hunt.

 

[Hank2211]

I agree Simon, but that was on a very high end hunt.

That's true @BRICKBURN, but one of the interesting aspects of hunting in Ethiopia is that the government takes most of the money. I have no reason to doubt my outfitter - they make more money elsewhere. They offer a similar guarantee, I believe, with Lord Derby Eland in Cameroon.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I don't doubt your Outfitter either.
No Outfitter is required to provide a guarantee, but the all in price tag of Ethiopia, no matter who's skimming from the pot, might have some considering other destinations if the Outfitter was not so confident in getting the hunter this very exclusive trophy. The experience is certainly a huge part of it, but, at some point, paying large sums for a hike is daft.

 

[Hank2211]

I don't doubt your Outfitter either.
No Outfitter is required to provide a guarantee, but the all in price tag of Ethiopia, no matter who's skimming from the pot, might have some considering other destinations if the Outfitter was not so confident in getting the hunter this very exclusive trophy. The experience is certainly a huge part of it, but, at some point, paying large sums for a hike is daft.

I think we're on the same page. I noted that the guarantee gave me confidence in the team and the area. That's always important, but never more so when you're looking for one particularly rare or difficult animal and paying through the nose for the privilege.

My point, which you also got, was that the shot opportunity guarantee could be viewed positively, rather than the other way, which was where most of the replies were heading.

So now that I've repeated myself, I will let it go, at least until Friday afternoon at Mandalay Bay!

 

[thi9elsp]

I don't like the idea of charging for shot opportunity. What differentiates Africa from the NA is the trophy fee - wounded or recovered. It's probably part of why I'm more interested in hunting Africa more than NA right now. I missed several shots on animals while hunting in Mozambique this past fall. If I was charged for every shot I took, I would have been really pissed. We have bad days some times and the PH/Guide's job is to keep me up and get me on the next animal. And for that I tipped him fairly and paid for trophy fees for 7 animals.

Lastly, I was on a buffalo that was bigger horned than the one I ultimately shot. But, there was an older, dagga boy in that group. We, the PH and I, decided to pass on the one in my cross hairs. Of course, the wind changed a few seconds later and we watched the dust as they ran up a far hillside. In the end, the bull I shot was my choice and Manuel counseled me it was a bit soft. So, if someone chooses to pass on an animal, there shouldn't be any trophy fee charged and I wouldn't want to hunt with the individual.

 

[Royal27]

Here's my take on all of this: AfricaHunting.com encourages (through advertisement) thinking that leads to all sorts of problems like this. If you want to avoid any and all of these problems:

A.) Find a really, really competent PH that has bonafides to work in many countries
B.) Have a great time with him on your first hunt.
C.) Show your loyalty by not pricing out other Africa trips with competitors because you found a really good PH in point A.) above
D.) In subsequent trips to Africa you can use the same PH, usually with a handshake and no deposits or weird contract language.
E.) You are now doing business with a friend instead of a firm.

I can't tell you how often I see references on AH for "had an amazing time", "XYZ PH was fantastic", "loved every minute!", and then 6 months later those same people are shopping for a new hunt with a different outfit. Russian roulette for all parties involved with a new relationship. Hence, PHs have silly contract rules like this thread because they have no idea if the client is a maniac.

Jumping from PH to PH without good cause from trip to trip is nothing more than "safari adultery".

Just my take.

"Safari Adultery" should be its own thread. As soon as I finished my first safari, I talked with the outfitter USA rep and had the normal follow up conversations. Mention an elephant and I got all types of quotes for exportable elephants. Told them I couldn't afford that and was wondering what they had non exportable tuskless, and basically they could do a PAC hunt that I thought was over priced. Now I feel no obligation to book with them for this hunt, as I gave them first shot and they didn't offer what I wanted. I did book with a sponsor here and had a great hunt. It all depends what you are after and what the outfitter offers.

@rookhawk , @LivingTheDream is right, Safari Adultery should be it's own thread. Why don't you start it?

I loved your "six months later" comment and believe it to be true, which is fine if that's what someone wanted. I do think that many "loved every minute" largely based on price alone. Would they love it the same amount at 15% more the next time? I've used multiple outfitters myself and would hunt with all but one again. But, I also like the idea of "settling down," assuming my needs can be met at a reasonable cost.

It would definitely make for an interesting thread.

 

[wesheltonj]

Of course the easiest way to avoid this problem, is to have the trophy fee separate from the daily fee. The outfitter has covered his overhead and made some profit. The client takes a animal he pays the trophy fee. Much easier then trying to get a "refund" for non-harvested game or argue what is a shot opportunity. After reading the many problems about trying to get a refund, I would not book any other way.

 

[Red Leg]

Mainly I was talking about leopard, there is a cost of doing business and maintaining camps cars etc. assuming you book a cat hunt for 25k USD with a 4K refund with for no cat. On. In most area on a 14 day hunt , it does not cost the outfitter $21,000 to operate the hunt. So even with a refund of 4K he has made a fair profit from your unsuccessful hunt.

I would rather the outfitter cover his cost of doing business with a modest profit but make the lions share of it through the trophy fee.

Interesting. I have never been offered a hunt with those metrics. And I wouldn't do it if so offered.