SOUTH AFRICA: BOWHUNT: Pawprint Safaris

[Royal27]

 

[Royal27]

I couldn't help it.

Me either. Yours was better.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I couldn't help it.

Super Moderator my butt

 

[siml]

 

[bowfishoholic]

Love you guys. This has been hilarious, like a comedy and a soap opera all in one.
Just shows how a good PH can make the hunt and a lousy (one not knowledgeable in your type of hunting) can destroy a hunt. Sure glad our first trip had a great PH, because I would not have returned if this was my only African experience.
One question for all my mentors out here at AH. what can you do when you get a PH that is not knowledgeable for a 10+ day bow hunt? My husband always read, don't guide the guide, but in this case, we should have. You are in a foreign country, you find out your guide is not up to par, he doesn't like your equipment, has a grudge on women hunters, etc, no form of communication with the outside world, can't return for 2 weeks.
I just want to give newbies somewhere to go if they run into a situation like this. It was scary.
Our next trip will be with our first PH, we met with him personally, actually hung out with him all weekend. We made sure that there will be no changes in our PH. We know the outfitter and totally trust our PH, he is very calm, knowledgeable, patient, and fun to hang out with, a friend for life. We would welcome in our house at any time.
Outfitters, if you use a guide, check in with the client early in the trip on a one to one to make sure everyone is a good fit with each other and that everything is going well. Our first time to talk to our outfitter was about the 4th or 5th day and he took care of most of the things.

 

[siml]

I just want to give newbies somewhere to go if they run into a situation like this. It was scary.

Excellent question.

Keep the phone number of the hunters association in which country you are hunting.

 

[bowfishoholic]

Excellent question.

Keep the phone number of the hunters association in which country you are hunting.

We had no phone or WI fi.
What do you do?

 

[GuttormG]

You adresse the issues with the PH and/or outfitter there and then, not on some webforum 3 years later. ...

 

[Michael Dean]

I've read through this thread twice and reflected on what has been said as well as what has not been said. In short, Bestguide has made some pretty damning accusations; the nature and tone which is typically not found or accepted on AH. It's obvious that the discord between Pieter and Bestguide far transcends this one occurrence or hunt, the animosity on Bestguide's part is deep seated.

One disconcerting point for myself is the absence of Pieter's viewpoint; he knows full well that his credibility is on the chopping block yet in spite of the allegations put forward he's opted to remain silent. If ten percent of what Bestguide has alleged regarding Pieter's tactics and hunting practices are true, it suggest that clients are viewed as more or less financial opportunities rather than clients. The fact that Pieter delegated his professional duties without any advance notice to his clients is in itself troubling at best.

The business of safari hunting in South Africa is in trouble; there are ongoing mixed reports of clients feeling shortchanged and compromised. Marginal trophies, PH's more concerned with kickbacks from taxidermists then making certain that clients needs are completely fulfilled are just some concerns.

John's accusations touch upon some of these issues. I'm not saying I agree with his approach but many of the issues he's raised are highly unethical if not illegal. At this point I don't know fully who or what to believe.

 

[Royal27]

We had no phone or WI fi.
What do you do?

@bowfishoholic

You address it right then and there, no matter how uncomfortable you think it might be. It isn't an easy lesson to learn, nor easy to do. Trust me, I know (read the thread that @BRICKBURN linked earlier in this thread).

So in this particular case, you and your husband tell @Bestguide what your issues are and what he's going to do to correct them. And if he doesn't, you tell him to call @Pawprint Safaris so that you can talk to him, tight then.

When you're being pushed to shoot the Nyala you say NO. Heck, throw a rock at the animal, that will make the point.

You do all of this in a courteous manner of course, but you've got to address the issue right there. Maybe the issue doesn't get sorted right then, but more likely that it does.

 

[Royal27]

One disconcerting point for myself is the absence of Pieter's viewpoint; he knows full well that his credibility is on the chopping block yet in spite of the allegations put forward he's opted to remain silent. If ten percent of what Bestguide has alleged regarding Pieter's tactics and hunting practices are true, it suggest that clients are viewed as more or less financial opportunities rather than clients. The fact that Pieter delegated his professional duties without any advance notice to his clients is in itself troubling at best.

@Pawprint Safaris made it clear early on that he wouldn't address accusations that weren't backed up by fact. You can argue the right or wrong of the approach, but Pieter was clear. And John has certainly refused to provide and documentation to date. My comments may be dumb, but I know that fact. Now if John had provided some actual evidence and Pieter was silent, that would be damning, but it hasn't happened.

As for the highlighted above I believe that it is one of the mistakes that Pieter references. If I were a potential client I'd take it into consideration as one of many factors. If I got close to making a decision I'd talk to Pieter about it before I made a final decision, making it clear that he needed to commit to my hunt. If Pieter couldn't commit I'd move on.

Firstly I am a full PHASA member in good standing. Secondly this was a 2x1 hunt from
the beginning. Thirdly John is welcome to make a complaint to PHASA or whomever he wants to and we can post the outcome.
Each member here are welcome to make their own conclusion.
My main concern are the clients and that has been handled.
Did I make mistakes? Yes, and I took responsibility.
Funny enough the PH'S that currently work with me has done so for almost three years without a problem.
I am not going to get into an online argument on this, but I do open myself to any investigation whether by PHASA or any other authority and I am open to post the result of such on this thread.
By the way last year John reported me for hunting birds without licenses, also prooven wrong
I leave it up to John to report this anywhere, let's see the outcome.
This will be my last post until we have a factual result.[/QUOTE]

 

[BRICKBURN]

..................
Outfitters, if you use a guide, check in with the client early in the trip on a one to one to make sure everyone is a good fit with each other and that everything is going well.

Great advice. Certainly, if you do not have a very long history with your PH's. You should also be paying attention to small signs as some people will be reluctant to raise a conflict. As noted, the client is "Stuck" and may not feel they have any alternative.

Our first time to talk to our outfitter was about the 4th or 5th day and he took care of most of the things.

That would be an oversight.

 

[bowfishoholic]

@bowfishoholic

You address it right then and there, no matter how uncomfortable you think it might be. It isn't an easy lesson to learn, nor easy to do. Trust me, I know (read the thread that @BRICKBURN linked earlier in this thread).

So in this particular case, you and your husband tell @Bestguide what your issues are and what he's going to do to correct them. And if he doesn't, you tell him to call @Pawprint Safaris so that you can talk to him, tight then.

When you're being pushed to shoot the Nyala you say NO. Heck, throw a rock at the animal, that will make the point.

You do all of this in a courteous manner of course, but you've got to address the issue right there. Maybe the issue doesn't get sorted right then, but more likely that it does.

Lesson learned. I can't change anything with that trip, but the next trip hopefully won't have any problems. Actually we look forward to visiting with Pieter again on the last part of the trip. We can't wait to see the changes that he has made. He does seem to care about his clients and is also learning from mistakes. Heck, I am far from being perfect, but at least I aim to do my best, which I hope we all do.
I just don't want others to end up in a situation like this. It just ruins everything. Better to be prepared when hunting with a new outfitter. All the research that we did made this look like it should have been a great hunt.
I guess this trip was not meant to be.
Well one more trip to SA next fall.

 

[BRICKBURN]

...............
When you're being pushed to shoot the Nyala you say NO. Heck, throw a rock at the animal, that will make the point. .................

option two, stand up and walk ten feet away to cut down on the chatter in your ear. Take those moments to determine what you would like to say and then say it.
Assert your goals and expectations clearly. If the issues persist, ask to speak to the Outfitter immediately and have them address your concerns now.

 

[BRICKBURN]

.............
I just don't want others to end up in a situation like this. It just ruins everything. Better to be prepared when hunting with a new outfitter. All the research that we did made this look like it should have been a great hunt. .......

It is better to be prepared before you ever leave.

Where did you research fail you?

What other questions would you ask now?

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Love you guys. This has been hilarious, like a comedy and a soap opera all in one.
Just shows how a good PH can make the hunt and a lousy (one not knowledgeable in your type of hunting) can destroy a hunt. Sure glad our first trip had a great PH, because I would not have returned if this was my only African experience.
One question for all my mentors out here at AH. what can you do when you get a PH that is not knowledgeable for a 10+ day bow hunt? My husband always read, don't guide the guide, but in this case, we should have. You are in a foreign country, you find out your guide is not up to par, he doesn't like your equipment, has a grudge on women hunters, etc, no form of communication with the outside world, can't return for 2 weeks.
I just want to give newbies somewhere to go if they run into a situation like this. It was scary.
Our next trip will be with our first PH, we met with him personally, actually hung out with him all weekend. We made sure that there will be no changes in our PH. We know the outfitter and totally trust our PH, he is very calm, knowledgeable, patient, and fun to hang out with, a friend for life. We would welcome in our house at any time.
Outfitters, if you use a guide, check in with the client early in the trip on a one to one to make sure everyone is a good fit with each other and that everything is going well. Our first time to talk to our outfitter was about the 4th or 5th day and he took care of most of the things.

The best way to handle the situation you describe is to avoid it in the first place in my opinion. Communication with the outfitter and if possible the PH prior to booking is best for avoiding the situation in the first place. Discuss what your expectations are, ask how they hunt, in other words probe into it as much as you feel you need. This of course needs to be somewhat balanced against the fact they are the Outfitter/PH for a reason, they know things you don't. In the end if it doesn't seem like a good fit, move on to the next outfitter. There's lots of outfitters and you'll find one that fits you.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I'd also agree with the comments regarding when to shoot. For me if the PH says shoot AND I say shoot, then I shoot. If either of us say Don't Shoot, then I don't.

If the PH is pressuring me to shoot during the shot, that just isn't going to fly. I have been hunting now for quite sometime and have taken numerous heads of game. If I was hunting right now and I had what I was after standing in front of me, one of two things would occur. I would either be as cool as a cucumber and take the shot calmly. Or I'd get a rush of adrenaline and it would take effort to calm down and make a good shot. There's no rhyme or reason or anything that can predict which it would be. But one thing is for certain, if the PH is standing there hissing SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT over and over again, that rush of adrenaline will happen and it'll be damn hard for me to calm down with added pressure of the PH. Fortunately this has never happened on my safaris, but if it did the PH and I would be having a conversation about how he was not going to do that again.

 

[Michael Dean]

Lesson learned. I can't change anything with that trip, but the next trip hopefully won't have any problems. Actually we look forward to visiting with Pieter again on the last part of the trip. We can't wait to see the changes that he has made. He does seem to care about his clients and is also learning from mistakes. Heck, I am far from being perfect, but at least I aim to do my best, which I hope we all do.
I just don't want others to end up in a situation like this. It just ruins everything. Better to be prepared when hunting with a new outfitter. All the research that we did made this look like it should have been a great hunt.
I guess this trip was not meant to be.
Well one more trip to SA next fall.

I find it troubling for anyone to wait three years to make a report such as this. I also find it troubling that at no time during the trip was Pieter advised of any issues. Lastly, praising Pieter when he ultimately was responsible for the success of the trip is out of place, his offer of a free trip may have clouded bowfishoholic's point of view and standing.

 

[bowfishoholic]

It is better to be prepared before you ever leave.

Where did you research fail you?

What other questions would you ask now?

I still can't find anything about @Pawprint Safaris negative except for the comments from @Bestguide and we were with him long enough not to believe everything he claimed. I believe if Pieter had been our PH or a another capable bowhunting PH, we would have had a great time.

Our favorite PH isn't a bow hunter, but is very knowledgeable about bowhunting, shot placement for archery, and what a bow is capable of.

We had a lot of exciting hunts planned. Not everything was Pieters fault. We had rain in August which made some roads impassible, messing up one hunt. We had black wildebeest decided not to come to feed n water, messed up another, but still had an awesome shot on a Springbok. We would have had a video, but my husband was, still playing wuth the camera, when I had the perfect shot opportunity. I did get to see the black wildebeest at a distance.

We finally talked directly to the @Pawprint Safaris on the way to Alldays. We ended up with @Bestguide a couple of days at the end of the trip.

I think that we would forget about the fact that all guides know best and speak up when we know better. My husband doesn't like conflict, but will hold a grudge when things aren't resolved. I probably would pick up the rock and throw it. Let everyone be upset with me, so what? The food, we had a menu on our paperwork that we gave @Pawprint Safaris. I think it said wild game, mint crisp, and amarulla, along with specifics about both bows.

Our next trip, we made sure that we have a specific PH, and asked again before making our deposit. We have personally discussed about animals and decided against the black wildebeest, since he recommended not to use the bow, but rifle would be available. I like my bow and prefer to hunt with it. I can shoot a rifle very well, just like the bow better for hunting.
If I didn't know the outfitter, I would get more info on taxidermy, not just the outfitter's word. Also, have a back up plan if incurring problems.
You guys are great!

 

[bowfishoholic]

I find it troubling for anyone to wait three years to make a report such as this. I also find it troubling that at no time during the trip was Pieter advised of any issues. Lastly, praising Pieter when he ultimately was responsible for the success of the trip is out of place, his offer of a free trip may have clouded bowfishoholic's point of view and standing.

I wanted to put it off until we got the trophies back. I finally gave it a deadline date and put up the report.
The free trip was offered in January. After working things out with Pieter, we accepted.