SOUTH AFRICA: Kuche Safaris

[375Fox]

Who cares about ear tags? My first safari the PH lined me up to hunt springbuck on a high school chum's large property. He has quite a large herd and some very nice rams. I shot a fine one after a couple hours cat and mouse stalk. Then we had the rest of the day to kill. The property owner asked if I might be interested in hunting a gemsbuck bull that had escaped into a sheep section. This guy got out five years earlier and for whatever reason simply was not interested in getting back with the herd. He probably was also not interested in breeding. So may as well get rid of him. My PH had been trying but to no avail. Several clients had tried and failed. That old bull was cagey. "Pat, he has a tag in his ear. Is that going to bother you?" No, not really. If he's hard to get, sounds like my kind of hunt. That's what matters. We chased that bull round and round in the thick stuff with lookouts on the hills and still no one ever saw him. Finally, we gave up and went to the farm for lunch. Afterwards, as we were just on the highway leaving PH told me about a pair of cows that had also escaped onto another section. A client shot one two months earlier. I suggested if the other one is still there we may as well go give it a shot. We're already there with the rest of the day to kill. That animal is only wasting range where it is (and range was a precious commodity during a seven year drought!). We eventually did find her on a very rugged section and I had to shoot to kill or get run over ... or worse. Not sure if it was a charge or we were just in her way. VERY close shooting. I can't ask for a more memorable hunt than that.
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If hunting animals with ear tags doesn’t bother you I don’t know how to argue back. I cannot understand being proud of a trophy that was raised and handled as livestock previously. You are also trying to compare eastern cape to Limpopo where the degree and intensity of game farming is very different.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

If “hunting” animals with ear tags doesn’t bother you I don’t know how to argue back. I cannot understand being proud of a trophy that was raised and handled as livestock previously. You are also trying to compare eastern cape to Limpopo where the degree and intensity of game farming is very different.

If it's a difficult hunt, why should it bother me? The hunt is about seeing new places, meeting new people, and a challenging chase. For the East Cape it's often the best use of the land, keeps people working, keeps them fed, provides stability. That's a win win all the way around. In these times I'm happy to help keep people from killing each other. I suppose if they just killed each other, it wouldn't bother me so much. But you don't have to look very far to see what unrest does to the natural environment. A piece of plastic in an animal's ear is a very small thing in the larger context. You just have to have an open mind to see it.

 

[375Fox]

If it's a difficult hunt, why should it bother me? The hunt is about seeing new places, meeting new people, and a challenging chase. For the East Cape it's often the best use of the land, keeps people working, keeps them fed, provides stability. That's a win win all the way around. In these times I'm happy to help keep people from killing each other. I suppose if they just killed each other, it wouldn't bother me so much. But you don't have to look very far to see what unrest does to the natural environment. A piece of plastic in an animal's ear is a very small thing in the larger context. You just have to have an open mind to see it.

I never tied hunting animals with ear tags and saving the world together but OK. As far as open mind, I think you need to see areas outside the eastern cape and South Africa. You could apply the same thinking to gemsbok in Namibia or Botswana except they won’t have an ear tag and are native to that area. Gemsbok are not native to eastern cape.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I never tied hunting animals with ear tags and saving the world together but OK. As far as open mind, I think you need to see areas outside the eastern cape and South Africa. You could apply the same thinking to gemsbok in Namibia or Botswana except they won’t have an ear tag and are native to that area. Gemsbok are not native to eastern cape.

Yes, well I'm packing up now for a month's hunting pheasants in Montana. I'm not going to China to hunt them just to have some pompous claim to authenticity. I'm quite sure pheasants are just as hard to hunt in either locale.

When I went to the Eastern Cape the first time in 2019, I was skeptical. Someone I had just met assured me this operator could provide some challenging hunts which was what was important to me. In fact, it was and is the only thing that's important to me. I was not particularly interested in sleeping in grass huts ... or 5-star lodging. Turns out this outfitter fit me perfectly. I particularly enjoyed hunting in a farming community. That proved to be an unexpected bonus. Those are my kind of people. And I'm their kind of people. Yes, I now wear the doctor title but I'm also formerly a surveyor, policeman, firefighter, janitor, crane operator, teacher/coach, animal packer, ranch hand, park ranger, editor, research consultant, truck driver, and government historian. Not the usual double gunning physician, dentist, lawyer, banker, oil well owner type. I like being with working folks and they generally like being with me. So it worked. Why do I need to improve on that?

 

[375Fox]

I like being with working folks and they generally like being with me. So it worked. Why do I need to improve on that?

You don’t but the scope of African hunting you’ve seen is very narrow and you don’t seem to recognize Africa and even just South Africa is a big place.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

You don’t but the scope of African hunting you’ve seen is very narrow and you don’t seem to recognize Africa and even just South Africa is a big place.

Yes, and it is an expensive place to visit and hunt. I don't have an endless supply of financial resources and at my age physical resources are definitely finite. I also have enough experience DIY hunting in North America to know finding new places to hunt is always a roll of the dice (to put it mildly) that can take years of trial and error before something satisfactory is found. At my small lodge in the Eastern Cape I get challenging hunting surrounded by fantastic scenery and wonderful people. And at a great price. Why should I roll the dice, especially when the financial stakes are so high? I will say, I think I was lucky. I have read some reports of other operations that are not very glowing. However, things are changing there and I'm keeping an ear to the ground. If/when I return, I may need to reassess. At least now I have enough contacts to make an assessment based on onsite knowledge. Would I go outside the East Cape? Possibly. But that country is hard to beat. Frankly, the flat thickly covered Limpopo hunting I have seen in the YouTube videos doesn't do a thing for me. I could care less about self sustaining herds. It's all managed resources no matter where you go or how you look at it. Except maybe in areas where law and order has broken down completely. However, I have no interest in hunting with guards armed with machine guns.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I'm not trying to be some sort of unifier - I'll leave that to the professionals, like President Biden (sarcasm!). But in reading recent posts to this thread, it occurs to me the really super cool thing is that both of you - @375Fox and @Ontario Hunter - have found things about Africa that make you genuinely happy, which, frankly, makes me smile. That should be the truth for all of us, right? I personally think threads like this one are valuable because it allows new folks to see different perspectives and decide what's best for them. I get a genuine big kick out of so many of the things you share @375Fox; I agree with a lot of your perspectives. But it's also pretty clear to me that you and I come from slightly different financial realities. That's not a bad thing, and I am happy for you - it's just an observation. That's true with a number of members here, who clearly have the means to go to Africa and do a lot more and different things than I currently do. But I do get what @Ontario Hunter is saying about appreciating and being happy with what he's found. My own perspective, at this time, is I feel that way about where I have hunted and, honestly, I feel a bit of loyalty to the outfitter I have hunted with because he has done so much to show me a good hunt and make it worth my time. That said, I hope to someday have the means to do some other stuff, that I maybe can't get with him. I would like to hunt crocodile and hippo, and maybe a few other things. I would like to see other places, and hopefully I'm young enough (just turned 57) to still pack a crap-ton of Africa hunting into my life.

I have to say, I'd struggle with the idea of shooting an animal with a tag. That's just me.
@Ontario Hunter ... I totally get and respect being happy with finding a good thing. I do.
@375Fox ... I like that the folks (like you) who can do more can inspire the rest of us to want more.

And to the original topic... I don't think Kuche Safaris would work for me. I don't need five star accommodations, but that many people would be a turn-off. I'm a card carrying introvert. But clearly they do work for some people, which is why threads like this have value, IMHO.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I'm not trying to be some sort of unifier - I'll leave that to the professionals, like President Biden (sarcasm!). But in reading recent posts to this thread, it occurs to me the really super cool thing is that both of you - @375Fox and @Ontario Hunter - have found things about Africa that make you genuinely happy, which, frankly, makes me smile. That should be the truth for all of us, right? I personally think threads like this one are valuable because it allows new folks to see different perspectives and decide what's best for them. I get a genuine big kick out of so many of the things you share @375Fox; I agree with a lot of your perspectives. But it's also pretty clear to me that you and I come from slightly different financial realities. That's not a bad thing, and I am happy for you - it's just an observation. That's true with a number of members here, who clearly have the means to go to Africa and do a lot more and different things than I currently do. But I do get what @Ontario Hunter is saying about appreciating and being happy with what he's found. My own perspective, at this time, is I feel that way about where I have hunted and, honestly, I feel a bit of loyalty to the outfitter I have hunted with because he has done so much to show me a good hunt and make it worth my time. That said, I hope to someday have the means to do some other stuff, that I maybe can't get with him. I would like to hunt crocodile and hippo, and maybe a few other things. I would like to see other places, and hopefully I'm young enough (just turned 57) to still pack a crap-ton of Africa hunting into my life.

I have to say, I'd struggle with the idea of shooting an animal with a tag. That's just me.
@Ontario Hunter ... I totally get and respect being happy with finding a good thing. I do.
@375Fox ... I like that the folks (like you) who can do more can inspire the rest of us to want more.

And to the original topic... I don't think Kuche Safaris would work for me. I don't need five star accommodations, but that many people would be a turn-off. I'm a card carrying introvert. But clearly they do work for some people, which is why threads like this have value, IMHO.

Tundra tiger can feel honored. I think that is the only time I have punched the "love" button ... ever.

Euro skulls don't have ears so shooting a bull gemsbuck wearing an ear tag wouldn't bother me at all. I would have kept the tag if John was okay with it. Part of the story. Maybe I would have strategically positioned the animal for photo op so the tag was obscured. Not that it made any difference to me but, as we see, some folks equate ear tags with domesticated animals. That old basturd was anything but domesticated! My PH was thoroughly frustrated. Said he was coming back at the end of the season and get rid of it once and for all. Foiled again. Last I knew the wily SOB is still sneaking around on that property. Must be a real dandy trophy by now, especially given that he was initially purchased as a breeding bull. I may give him another go if we both survive another year. Shooting that bull would be a notable accomplishment given so many other hunters have failed. The piece of plastic in his ear would mean absolutely nothing.

 

[R.M.C.]

This is slightly off topic but I shot and even shoulder mounted an animal with an ear tag. It was a wild hog from a game farm a few miles from my house in northeast Pennsylvania. They routinely escape and breed outside the fence. It was actually my first ever wild hog, just happened to spot the group out my kitchen window on a rainy day. There were five of them digging at an old round bale about 75 yards away. I got my 30.06 and through the scope I saw the green ear tag, and for some reason it was a trophy in my head lol. I shot that one then proceeded to miss the others while they ran for cover. But where the animals are supposed to be wild, I'd prefer no ear tags!

 

[Deepfork]

I never saw an ear tag on probably 1000 animals I saw total.

I saw one ear tag, asked my PH about it. It was a male brought in for genetic diversity. They tagged the animal before it was released so it would not be shot.

Seems like fairly responsible management to me.

Still I should not have brought it up, or for that matter used the word "management" in this post. It will just bring on a new batch of inane attacks.

 

[375Fox]

Still I should not have brought it up, or for that matter used the word "management" in this post.

Only partial truths to present something a certain way are definitely better

 

[Deepfork]

Only partial truths to present something a certain way are definitely better

Got it. Anyone who has a opinion you disagree with. Or maybe has some knowledge based on first had experience that does not fit your narrative is presenting "partial truths".

 

[375Fox]

Got it. Anyone who has an opinion you disagree with. Or maybe has some knowledge based on first had experience that does not fit your narrative is presenting "partial truths".

Only putting part of the information out there is a partial truth, especially when you have first hand experience there. You said you never should have said you saw ear tags because you don’t like the discussion that follows.

 

[Deepfork]

Only putting part of the information out there is a partial truth, especially when you have first hand experience there. You said you never should have said you saw ear tags because you don’t like the discussion that follows.

No...because it turned into a free for all about hunting animals with ear tags. That is not what is happening. That is not what I said.

 

[Daisy]

My buddy raises trophy deer here in the states. Stuff you wouldn’t believe in size. I could kill a 250 score for free at any time. And I never have. It doesn’t appeal to me. The place I hunted had zero resemblance to a deer breeding factory.

Of note, tagged animals are rarely shot. They are breeders that the tag tells you not to shoot them.

The bottom was main breeder buck for a while. Got struck my lightning and died. Ha

 

[Ruraldoc]

I have friends with high fences in Alabama,I don't hunt them because their deer seem to be very tame to me.

The animals that I saw at Kuche did not act tame to me. If they saw you or smelled you they headed in a the other direction. I never saw a single animal with an ear tag although I'm sure there may be some out there somewhere.

I did see properties in which there were large numbers of females,young animals and immature males of various ages. These places have the feel of self sustainling herds. The only animal I saw in a week of hunting that didn't run from me was a cape buffalo bull that came for me in a full speed charge.

I had a blast. I am going back to South Africa. I love it and the fine people that I've met there.

 

[RETD16]

For those who have had an experience with Kuche, what is your opinion of the experience for someone who is not going to hunt? My Wife is planning to go with me in May, and does not hunt and wants nothing to do with the hunt. Are there activities for her at the camp while I’m hunting? I have set up for her to do the “elephant experience”. But she’s wondering about the accommodations for her and what’s available for her to do while I’m out hunting. Thanks in advance for any information!!!

 

[DonPablo]

For those who have had an experience with Kuche, what is your opinion of the experience for someone who is not going to hunt? My Wife is planning to go with me in May, and does not hunt and wants nothing to do with the hunt. Are there activities for her at the camp while I’m hunting? I have set up for her to do the “elephant experience”. But she’s wondering about the accommodations for her and what’s available for her to do while I’m out hunting. Thanks in advance for any information!!!

I'm probably not as much help as my wife went out with me pretty much every day. However, I understand there are spas and other activities for non-hunting guests.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

For those who have had an experience with Kuche, what is your opinion of the experience for someone who is not going to hunt? My Wife is planning to go with me in May, and does not hunt and wants nothing to do with the hunt. Are there activities for her at the camp while I’m hunting? I have set up for her to do the “elephant experience”. But she’s wondering about the accommodations for her and what’s available for her to do while I’m out hunting. Thanks in advance for any information!!!

If I were bringing a spouse or non-hunting guest on any hunt I’d have some very specific questions for the outfitter, and make sure we had a detailed plan in place. It’s been stated Koos runs a larger operation, more moving pieces means a higher chance something slips through the cracks. Make sure you and Koos are on the same page with each day planned to minimize this, and enjoy your time in Africa.

 

[jball792]

Did you ever get this resolved?

Yes, and it was very frustrating. The details were communicated with Eagle Eye shipping. Communicating with Koos was difficult... He had no idea what was going on with our taxidermy, how it was packaged, timeline, any of it. I will not recommend Kuche to anyone. Anyone.