South Africa vs. Namibia?

[Ike85123]

I grew up on a 6500 acre farm. You could walk and stalk all day and you would only see a small percentage of it.
If you ever been to a nfl game, just remember how big the field looked. A nfl firld is 1.3 acres .
Now picture that game on 10,000 fields. I wouldn't worry about fences.
I hope that analogy helps.

 

[Justbryan]

You cannot lose with either SA or Namibia. Both will offer great plains game hunting.

Best option is to attend the Dallas Safari Club in January of 2022 if not going on trip till 2023. You can meet the PHs in person. I book a lot of hunts at DSC convention.

You can also look for gear, taxidermist, freight shippers, etc.

 

[mark-hunter]

I remember going to South Dakota the pheasant capitol of the world and discovered that some of the outfitters were buying pen raises birds and putting them in wild just before hunters arrived.

Phaesants are the birds introduced from China, for the purpose of hunting.

They have to be bread, although in some smallish areas wild population is maintained, but even then, occasional release of fresh birds is good practise.

This is very much common and standard practise in elite bird hunts in UK, and continental Europe.

It is the only way, that during weekend elite shoot, thousand or two thousand birds are shot during this event, with guns (hunters) standing on the pegs (stands), and birds are being driven to them.

Each hunter, traditionally will have 2 identical shotguns, preferably S/S, numbered "1" and "2".
And each hunter will have a loader, a helper whose duty will be loading the guns, and handing them to hunter loaded.

Another group, engaged in a hunt will be beaters, to drive the birds over a high tree line, providing hunters challenging shots of high birds.
Third group engaged in such organised hunt would be those to collect the birds, not a small number of them.
Gun loader, or assistant, in Spain is sometimes called "secretario".

Above described is one way of hunting.

Another way is to hunt over a pointing dogs. Brits call this rough shooting.

But regardless, in phaesant hunts very often the birds are relaesed before the hunt. Or sometimes, before the season start, to give them time to become "native". But in that case, losses can be substantial because of predators, and have to be accounted for....

All in all, to provide rich hunting area for phaesants, releaseing them is common practise. Not unusual.

 

[375Fox]

My vote still goes to Namibia, but if you choose South Africa, I would ask a lot of questions to confirm self sustaining. I feel many apply a broad definition to self sustaining in South Africa or have become very accustomed to the game ranching normal. Ask questions about number of properties they hunt and sizes of properties, numbers of hunters, how many other outfitters hunt same properties, yearly off take of animals. I don’t consider yearly introduction of trophy animals to a herd capable of being self sustaining to be self sustaining for hunting. Introduction of new genetics every couple years is a different matter. Fences are barriers to 99% of the animals (with exception to warthogs and bushbucks), even most eland will remain inside a fence unless pushed. Farmers wouldn’t introduce animals or have high value animals inside if it wasn’t a barrier. Most high fences I’ve seen are well maintained, I don’t like people trying to play down what a fence is. Some operations use fences to protect and improve what’s inside, other operations use fences for put and take and over stocking. I’ve had great hunts in South Africa on high fenced farms/ranches, but these are always my concerns and want to understand before I book. I won’t ask nearly as many questions about Namibia. I would also feel much more comfortable about eastern cape in South Africa compared to Limpopo, the game ranching appears much less intensive. I’ve hunted South Africa 4 times and Namibia 4 times and will hunt both again, about 90 days in total so far, significantly more than once from the back of a truck.

 

[Red Leg]

Phaesants are the birds introduced from China, for the purpose of hunting.

They have to be bread, although in some smallish areas wild population is maintained, but even then, occasional release of fresh birds is good practise.

This is very much common and standard practise in elite bird hunts in UK, and continental Europe.

It is the only way, that during weekend elite shoot, thousand or two thousand birds are shot during this event, with guns (hunters) standing on the pegs (stands), and birds are being driven to them.

Each hunter, traditionally will have 2 identical shotguns, preferably S/S, numbered "1" and "2".
And each hunter will have a loader, a helper whose duty will be loading the guns, and handing them to hunter loaded.

Another group, engaged in a hunt will be beaters, to drive the birds over a high tree line, providing hunters challenging shots of high birds.
Third group engaged in such organised hunt would be those to collect the birds, not a small number of them.
Gun loader, or assistant, in Spain is sometimes called "secretario".

Above described is one way of hunting.

Another way is to hunt over a pointing dogs. Brits call this rough shooting.

But regardless, in phaesant hunts very often the birds are relaesed before the hunt. Or sometimes, before the season start, to give them time to become "native". But in that case, losses can be substantial because of predators, and have to be accounted for....

All in all, to provide rich hunting area for phaesants, releaseing them is common practise. Not unusual.

Most Americans find a real ethical difference between shooting released pheasants at a tower shoot or raised quail on a Georgia plantation, and having a kudu released on a 1000 acre pasture for their shooting pleasure a week before their arrival. And should released birds not be of interest, we are fortunate in this country, that areas of the Midwest abound with wild pheasants, and areas of the South and Southwest have excellent wild quail hunting.

@Hunter_D I fully understand your concerns, and I will not knowingly participate in any put and take big game hunting. It can be so bad that you can find operations that will advertise a specific animal that is available for X amount of dollars. My immediate reaction is to wonder if he has a name. The vast majority of our sponsors who have or utilize game farms follow self-sustaining management practices. Such a farm is large enough to provide an environment where the animal population doesn't know it is fenced because the habitat exceeds its normal range. Such farms may indeed introduce breeding animals periodically to improve genetics, but not to provide a specific trophy for an inbound hunter.

As I noted, if you wish to hunt a sable and do not want to mount an expedition to a wilderness environment, you will need to plan to hunt a game farm. Pick the right outfitter, and again, you have a number of great ones on this site, and that farm experience will be an extraordinarily positive one. Then when the barb of that African hunt is buried deeply, start thinking about that wilderness hunt in the Caprivi, Zim, Moz, or Zambia which will include a buffalo.

 

[Hunter_D]

Phaesants are the birds introduced from China, for the purpose of hunting.

They have to be bread, although in some smallish areas wild population is maintained, but even then, occasional release of fresh birds is good practise.

This is very much common and standard practise in elite bird hunts in UK, and continental Europe.

It is the only way, that during weekend elite shoot, thousand or two thousand birds are shot during this event, with guns (hunters) standing on the pegs (stands), and birds are being driven to them.

Each hunter, traditionally will have 2 identical shotguns, preferably S/S, numbered "1" and "2".
And each hunter will have a loader, a helper whose duty will be loading the guns, and handing them to hunter loaded.

Another group, engaged in a hunt will be beaters, to drive the birds over a high tree line, providing hunters challenging shots of high birds.
Third group engaged in such organised hunt would be those to collect the birds, not a small number of them.
Gun loader, or assistant, in Spain is sometimes called "secretario".

Above described is one way of hunting.

Another way is to hunt over a pointing dogs. Brits call this rough shooting.

But regardless, in phaesant hunts very often the birds are relaesed before the hunt. Or sometimes, before the season start, to give them time to become "native". But in that case, losses can be substantial because of predators, and have to be accounted for....

All in all, to provide rich hunting area for phaesants, releaseing them is common practise. Not unusual.

I guess everyone has their own opinion of what is hunting and what is described here in my opinion is shooting and not hunting. If pen raised birds are released days if not hours before a "shoot" and are driven by people to a shooter at a stationery position that is basically target practice on live birds. I have been to one of those. They are known as Europeon hunts locally. I was there for the purpose of having retrieves for my lab I was training but not for shooting. I have been on several pheasant hunts for wild birds and have walked for miles without even getting a shot. I also am a full time taxidermist and I can usually always tell a pen raised pheasant. They have many pin feathers thay come out of skin easily indicating a young bird that was raised just long enough to get its feathers and fly before being released for a "hunt".

 

[Ragman]

I've hunted in Africa twice. Namibia in 2014 and the Eastern Cape of South Africa in 2018. Both were fantastic experiences. The year that I hunted Namibia they had gotten good rains after a severe drought. Everything was lush and green and it was beautiful. This was in the Omaruru area and the terrain with the trees and kopjes were what I had pictured in my head before I went. I hunted with a well known outfitter and had a freelance PH guiding me as I was part of a group of seven. We hunted some high fence properties but mainly low fence areas. Neither fence was an issue. One day I watched a Gemsbok run under a low fence at half speed and he never slowed down. It was amazing. There was Gemsbok, Hartebeest, Warthogs and Steenbok everywhere. However at that time the Kudu in that area were still affected by rabies which I was unaware of until I arrived. I never did manage to get a chance at one and they were the main animal on my wish list. I also kick myself for not hunting the Mountain Zebra...a big mistake on my part. Other than those two little issues it was a great experience and just being there felt great. It will always be a special place to me because it was my first Africa hunt.
My second hunt in Africa was in the Eastern Cape of RSA and this time it was just myself accompanied by my better half. I hunted with a well known sponsor from AH. I couldn't be happier with the way this hunt went. This trip was all about a rematch with Kudu and this time I was successful. It was also about my second favourite PG species, the Bushbuck, which was not available in Namibia. Again successful. We hunted high fence areas again, but never saw them except on arrival and then again at departure. If we had wanted, there is a lot more choices of nonhunting activities here. We didn't do much of that but we did take one day off for a day of shopping in Port Alfred. We also took a couple days at the beginning of the trip to spend on the beach at Port Elizabeth. Next time hopefully I'll take a day for ocean fishing. This outfitter accepts all currencies which as a Canadian was very helpful. If I'm able to get back I will be hunting with him again.
Either way they are both incredible places and I hope you get the experience that you want. But the main thing is to just go!

 

[Red Leg]

I guess everyone has their own opinion of what is hunting and what is described here in my opinion is shooting and not hunting. If pen raised birds are released days if not hours before a "shoot" and are driven by people to a shooter at a stationery position that is basically target practice on live birds. I have been to one of those. They are known as Europeon hunts locally. I was there for the purpose of having retrieves for my lab I was training but not for shooting. I have been on several pheasant hunts for wild birds and have walked for miles without even getting a shot. I also am a full time taxidermist and I can usually always tell a pen raised pheasant. They have many pin feathers thay come out of skin easily indicating a young bird that was raised just long enough to get its feathers and fly before being released for a "hunt".

Got you - I think we are saying the same thing.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@Hunter_D
I have copied your list, so my comments follow, for Namibia:
My comments are based on what I have seen, in free range and high fence.

Kudu - high fence and free range
Gemsbok - high fence - and free range
Red Hartabest - free range
Impala - high fence
Springbok - high fence
Blesbok - high fence

Wildebeest - black wildebeest is south african animal, in Namibia high fence.
Zebra - high fence and free range
Waterbuck - high fence and free range
Nyalya - Nyala is south african animal, in Namibia, only high fence

Sable, very valuable animal (up to 6k USD, introduced = farmers investment) , in Namibia, will be high fenced in central farm land. For free range Sable, need to go to Zambia, for example

To add few:
Leopard - jumps over any fence, consider free range
Warthog, digs under any fence, consider free range
Baboon - free range
Jackal - free range

During travel from Windhoek international airport, I have seen many animals along the road to the area Otjozondjupe (dozens of them).
Those are certainly free ranging animals:
Kudu, red hartebeest, warthog, waterbuck, baboon, oryx.
This should be some indicatation of what to look for.

My personal list to hunt free range animals, out of fence, in agreement with outfitter, if the aninlas are availabel in his area, is:
Kudu, Oryx, red hartebeest, warthog, jackal, baboon, Zebra (preferably Hartman Zebra).

@Mark Hunter
Sable are a very expensive animal (to me anyway) . Harald the property owner the shot on spent 15,000 dollars US for a new sable buck to assist his aging ones and improve his genetics.
I didn't know black wildebeest were native to RSA. The amount we saw was unbelievable, blue wildebeest were in large numbers but nowhere as many as the black.
I think Hunter_D will have a breathing no matter where he chooses as long as he does his research and checks real references.
Bob

 

[mark-hunter]

Sable are a very expensive animal (to me anyway)

To me as well.
But, prices are dropping, almost every farm offers a sable.

In the meantime, if my outfitter gets and old sable bull, with broken horn, that nobody wants to shoot, and is offered accordingly, I might just go with it!

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

To me as well.
But, prices are dropping, almost every farm offers a sable.

In the meantime, if my outfitter gets and old sable bull, with broken horn, that nobody wants to shoot, and is offered accordingly, I might just go with it!

Do you have a Roan? Have a smoking deal on a bull but needs to happen relatively quickly.

 

[Pieter Oosthuizen]

Good day Hunter D, welcome to AH, I am sure you will have a lot of fun in planning your trip.

Have a nice day

Hunting reports on AfricaHunting.com for Game Trackers Africa:
- https://www.africahunting.com/threads/tanzania-three-generations-hunt-the-selous.45182/
- https://www.africahunting.com/threa...me-trackers-africa-in-the-eastern-cape.39710/
- https://www.africahunting.com/threads/tanzania-great-adventure-with-game-trackers-africa.40875/
- https://www.africahunting.com/threa...rk-continent-with-game-trackers-africa.40876/

 

[mark-hunter]

Do you have a Roan? Have a smoking deal on a bull but needs to happen relatively quickly.

Dear Marius,
Thanks for asking!
I dont have roan in my collection, and it is tempting, but in this covid global situation my problem also is: I cannot plan in advance my leave days from the job, to go on short notice to Africa. The biggest factor for me is Visa, and I need to send my passport by courier to embassy to make visa(for RSA to Hungary, for Namibia to Austria), have tickets well in advance, and plan hunting at least 3-5 months in advance, with steady job - leave schedule - and with covid mess, at this moment it is not feasable for me, my job schedule is frantic..
Moreover, my next safari is waiting for me - I signed the contract in Namibia, and made advance payment, in January 2020, postoponed due to covid-19, and now I am still postoponing because of unregular job schedule. Now I am hoping to make it in september this year.

 

[mark-hunter]

I didn't know black wildebeest were native to RSA.

There are thousands of black wildebeest in Namibia, on farms only, high fence.

One good source to check, is IUCN red list organisation web site, where you can check natural distribution of animals per species.

For example, black wildebeest natural distribution is below, screen shot, from this database.

It has to be said, black wildebeest was close to extintion once, due to farming pressure, exesive hunting and due to its limited natural area, but due to good practise of game managment program with local game farmers, they are now in healthy population. Another one of conservation successes! Introduced to Namibia, as well, but obviousy not reccorded as natural habitat by IUCN red list data base - see below.

I learned great deal about African hunting on this web site, including the existance of IUCN database web site. It became now my habit, when planning to hunt something in Africa, I take a look in this database, to get some basic info about the speices, numbers, and wehter it is introdoced or not, in the area where I wll be hunting. (not that I hunt in africa so often, but at least I get educated - been so far to safari, twice, only)

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

There are thousands of black wildebeest in Namibia, on farms only, high fence.

One good source to check, is IUCN red list organisation web site, where you can check natural distribution of animals per species.

For example, black wildebeest natural distribution is below, screen shot, from this database.

It has to be said, black wildebeest was close to extintion once, due to farming pressure, exesive hunting and due to its limited natural area, but due to good practise of game managment program with local game farmers, they are now in healthy population. Another one of conservation successes! Introduced to Namibia, as well, but obviousy not reccorded as natural habitat by IUCN red list data base - see below.

I learned great deal about African hunting on this web site, including the existance of IUCN database web site. It became now my habit, when planning to hunt something in Africa, I take a look in this database, to get some basic info about the speices, numbers, and wehter it is introdoced or not, in the area where I wll be hunting. (not that I hunt in africa so often, but at least I get educated - been so far to safari, twice, only)

@mark-hunter
Well cut my legs off and call me shorty, I didn't know that. With the amount we saw on Haralds property you would have thought they were native to Namibia with the amount there. To top it off Haralds game is NOT in high fences just the old cattle fences.
Bob

 

[mark-hunter]

Well cut my legs off and call me shorty, I didn't know that.

Ha!
I am still learning my english phrases and idioms, I will take note of this saying!

 

[BAYLY SIPPEL SAFARIS]

As long as you head to a reputable outfitter you will have an amazing time! If you have any questions on hunting in South Africa please feel free to shoot us a message!

Kind regards,
Dempsey Bayly & Michael Sippel

 

[Foxi]

If it is to be a first African family vacation with hunting, it does not matter whether Namibia or RSA.
The people there are overflowing with warmth and hospitality.
Get a few references, verify with common sense and it will be a great trip.
Foxi

 

[WAB]

Phaesants are the birds introduced from China, for the purpose of hunting.

They have to be bread, although in some smallish areas wild population is maintained, but even then, occasional release of fresh birds is good practise.

This is very much common and standard practise in elite bird hunts in UK, and continental Europe.

It is the only way, that during weekend elite shoot, thousand or two thousand birds are shot during this event, with guns (hunters) standing on the pegs (stands), and birds are being driven to them.

Each hunter, traditionally will have 2 identical shotguns, preferably S/S, numbered "1" and "2".
And each hunter will have a loader, a helper whose duty will be loading the guns, and handing them to hunter loaded.

Another group, engaged in a hunt will be beaters, to drive the birds over a high tree line, providing hunters challenging shots of high birds.
Third group engaged in such organised hunt would be those to collect the birds, not a small number of them.
Gun loader, or assistant, in Spain is sometimes called "secretario".

Above described is one way of hunting.

Another way is to hunt over a pointing dogs. Brits call this rough shooting.

But regardless, in phaesant hunts very often the birds are relaesed before the hunt. Or sometimes, before the season start, to give them time to become "native". But in that case, losses can be substantial because of predators, and have to be accounted for....

All in all, to provide rich hunting area for phaesants, releaseing them is common practise. Not unusual.

It is a very different situation in NA. Pretty much all of our shooting is ‘rough’ shooting and bag limits are set to allow natural reproduction to maintain the population. The vast majority of our hunting land does not receive ‘planted’ birds. Large commercial operations do supplement the population. The planted birds are typically not as good as truly wild birds, but admittedly that is a generalization.

 

[WAB]

I guess everyone has their own opinion of what is hunting and what is described here in my opinion is shooting and not hunting. If pen raised birds are released days if not hours before a "shoot" and are driven by people to a shooter at a stationery position that is basically target practice on live birds. I have been to one of those. They are known as Europeon hunts locally. I was there for the purpose of having retrieves for my lab I was training but not for shooting. I have been on several pheasant hunts for wild birds and have walked for miles without even getting a shot. I also am a full time taxidermist and I can usually always tell a pen raised pheasant. They have many pin feathers thay come out of skin easily indicating a young bird that was raised just long enough to get its feathers and fly before being released for a "hunt".

There is no comparison between a ‘European’ hunt conducted in NA and a driven hunt conducted in Europe. Your characterization of the first is spot on. However, it bears no resemblance to the second.

In the UK birds cannot legally be released after May or June (I don’t recall the date). Shooting begins in the fall. Estates are designed so that birds are driven across a line of guns often in a valley. The result is strong flying ‘wild’ birds that cross the guns at 30+ yards elevation and top speed. The guns are spaced and mannered, not shooting at neighbors birds. It is a very sporting event.