Taking bullets (not ammunition) to Professional Hunter

I have taken brass and bullets in 2021 and also this year in 2023. Had no issues. In fact I am still in South Africa hunting. I had them in my checked bag. Flew Qatar Houston Doha Johberg. I had some brass, bullets, AA and AAA batteries, a couple of Vortex scopes, Wheeler tool kits, Timney triggers, rings and bases. All of this was in a checked bag and no issues at all.
 
That's good to hear. I'm a little surprised that the scopes didn't trigger ITAR rules.
 
If they noticed the scope they quite likely just figured that it was a spare, quite a few on the forum here carry at least 1 extra scope for a spare.
 
Good point.
hi sir

i have received projectiles from various of my clients over last few years, no issue
they put them in checked luggage
only issue is it does quickly push weight of your luggage up
technically "they are for your own use" as you are going hunting and used them up while hunting? no one can argue that point

your biggest issue may be when u fly domestically in US, my one friend was bringing projectiles to me from US, he flew from one state to atlanta, then on to south africa, the projectiles from his bag were taken out at his initial departure airport but not from his wifes bag? so i got half my projectiles on that trip

i have also received some via postal service, took forever, a legit courier service may be better but they will query goods and charge a tax of around 30% plus vat on imports

feel free to dm me for more info
 
Thanks Stuart for your reply. Helpful info. I also heard back from Henry at Riflepermits.com and he suggested that I put the bullets in the locked ammo case. I think I will do that with the .375 bullets and leave the .458 bullets for another trip or bring them to the PH at DSC. I hunt with a 458 Lott like the PH uses but not on this trip.
 
Now my next question is would you declare the bullets (not ammo) on the SAPS 520? What about the invitation letter? I know it's easy to overthink this stuff and lots of people get through without thinking at all but TIA!
 
Any issues with taking bullets (not loaded ammo) to the PH in Africa? I would have them in factory boxes in a separate checked bag from the rifles of course. They would be in the bag along with my locked hard case of ammo. Not all of the bullets will match up with my rifles so is this a potential problem?

Great question. I brought 1700 large bore bullets to Africa a couple years ago. It was completely legal, but it a was a sh&tshow at the airport In Chicago.

To conserve space, I vacuum sealed all the bullets so they took up minimal space. I then stacked them so each of my checked bags literally weighed 70lbs. (I was in biz class so that was the limit) My son was with me as well, so we muled them by using three bags just for the bullets.

So here’s how things went south. The TSA wanted to cut them open, breaking the seals. I explained that they are clear vacuum seal bags and if they cut the seals, he’ll next argue they can’t fly because they are loose. He swore up and down I can’t bring more than 11lbs of ammo. I politely informed him that it isn’t ammo, its ballast weight for fishing. There is no gun powder, brass cartridge, nor primer. This went on for 2.5 hours.

In the end, after his managers managers manager came back on duty somewhere else in the country, they relented and allowed them on. I knew this was going to be a battle so I arrived at the airport 5 hours early ready for a battle of wits.

Those bullets went to a licensed handloader so they could be used to outfit anti-poaching crews that had rifles, but no ammunition. In the end, it was worth the hassle for me because the cause was just and many people donated those bullets to ensure armed patrols could protect the resources.

I’ve also brought dies, shell holders, and unprimed brass over there, immediately turning them over to a licensed hand loader. (Yes, you need a license in some areas of Africa)

I also had an airport insider that had access through customs to join me, hand me papers, get me fast tracked through health screening, and who knew all the customs/immigration/gun inspectors at the airport. The PH arranged that at his expense to make sure I didn’t get hassled on that very heavy, large baggage trip into the country. (During covid when they could get nothing to survive down there)

In short, don’t do it if you’re not ready to compete in mental gymnastics with TSA. Don’t risk your trip for 50 projectiles, either bring over piles or don’t do it, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze otherwise.

Another very important thing, NEVER call a bullet a bullet in Africa. The general public of Africa use the term Bullet when they mean Ammunition. The African term is “TIPS”. Always call them “tips” or “heads” when speaking with any inspector or law enforcement in Africa to avoid a big problem for yourself.
 
Here's where the rub is going to be...

Whats the intended purpose of the export?

Effective Nov 2022.. Customs says a US Citizen can take up to 1000 rounds of ammo out of the country for personal use (temp export) without a license (clearly the airlines arent going to go for 1000 rounds due to weight, nor is South Africa.. but strictly from a licensing perspective the "export" is allowed without one..

Where the license is coming into play is if you are looking at a permanent export (shipping over with the intent to sell them, gift them, or whatever...)... If thats the case, the US govt wants its piece of the action (there is no export tax.. but they do want their license fee, etc)...

So.. as I am understanding things the way the regulation is written now... if you want to take a couple of boxes of projectiles out of the country (even 10 boxes).. its a non issue.. as long as they are FOR YOU...

If you are taking them out of the country knowing you have no intention of using them or bringing them back.. then you need a license...

Now.. is anyone ever going to ask you "what happened to those 200 projectiles you took out of the country?"... very likely not...

But are you technically violating the law and exposing yourself to the possibility that someone might ask.. it appears to be so...

Its after hours in DC... Ive got to call our law office tomorrow for other matters anyway... I'll try to ask when Im talking to them about this and see if they agree/disagree and what else they have to say about it..

Don’t confuse “rounds of ammo” with “projectiles”. One is an arms export, the other is chunks of lead and copper. Projectiles are not a controlled or regulated product.
 
Good points. I always feel weird when trying to say bullets not ammo. English is a messy language.
 
Excuse the minor derailment but this may be of interest to many here in North America. Further investigation of the recent revised US trade regulation cited above indicates gun parts less than $500 US can be shipped directly to Canadian customers without involving licensed importers/exporters on both ends provided: 1) item is for personal use, not commercial sale, 2) parts are not for restricted weapons in Canada (e.g. handguns and ARs - per Canadian regs), and 3) must be shipped via approved LVS (Low Value Shipment) courier ONLY. So which couriers are LVS approved? Apparently that is a secret closely guarded by customs brokers association and couriers. Getting a customs broker to ship a $500 item for less than $500 fee might be the trick. :) Also, proving an unthreaded 404 Jeffery barrel could not somehow be eventually fitted onto an AR platform rifle would be a hassle that I'm sure some overly zealous Canadian inspector could easily turn into an impossibility.
 
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Why the unnecessary headaches. As already suggested, just give the cash to the ph once you arrive and let him buy his own bullets in S.A. It is likely the bullets cost more in S.A., but it takes all of the potential heat off of you if you get caught, not to mention potentially ruining your hunt.
 
We dont always have the bullets as freely available as you in the US. You wont get in trouble by bringing your PH bullets. You will be doing him the biggest favour and make his job easier.
 
Why the unnecessary headaches. As already suggested, just give the cash to the ph once you arrive and let him buy his own bullets in S.A. It is likely the bullets cost more in S.A., but it takes all of the potential heat off of you if you get caught, not to mention potentially ruining your hunt.
I hear you and the reason I'm checking into this is because if I can help the PH get something he has a hard time finding that helps him or protects him then I want to help. It's not really transactional for me....more about the friendship/relationship with the PH.
 
We dont always have the bullets as freely available as you in the US. You wont get in trouble by bringing your PH bullets. You will be doing him the biggest favour and make his job easier.
Right. As hard as it is to find components in North America (almost impossible now) where most of the stuff is made, it must be ten times harder to get bullets over there.
 
Q: Along similar lines, but this one involving components (including primers and powder discs.) I've seen hollywood hunters take game with muzzleloaders in Africa...I have a newer Rem 700 Xtreme MuzzleLoader that uses a primed brass cartridge in the chamber, and powder discs with a bullet in the barrel. How on earth could that be temporarily imported for hunting (or flown on a plane?) I could put the discs inside the brass cases and slide the bullets in (it'd be just like loaded ammo!) lol Otherwise all the components would be separate, but in ammo boxes. 300 gr all copper bullet going 2,450-2,750 fps depending upon powder charge and I accurized it just like a 700 centerfire (timney trigger, bedding, aligned talley rings, etc.) Target is sighting it in from L. to R. then down for the BDC reticle, so a group would be <1" (probably touching.) I love this thing!

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I hear you and the reason I'm checking into this is because if I can help the PH get something he has a hard time finding that helps him or protects him then I want to help. It's not really transactional for me....more about the friendship/relationship with the PH.
Your call. Good Luck.
 
Wow, how confusing and time consuming understanding all of these seemingly contradictory regulations between different countries. How come nobody lists the 11lbs. of their VERY EXPENSIVE rifle ammunition on the CBP 4457 form? It's worth more than some scopes and binocs listed or not on the form. The ONLY thing anybody ever checked regarding my ammo, was the weight of it (maybe twice) on my one trip to RSA. So much for the BS about "proper headstamped" cartridges or even if the ammo you brought was for the rifles in your gun case! Maybe that was just in RSA? I would think one could bring ammo for their personal use for a rental rifle from a Safari outfit as long as you had the Safari contract and documentation for the airlines that you were bringing the ammo? Would the SAPS form be needed to be filled out just for ammo? Maybe you can't do this, maybe you can? Nobody really seems to know. ALL of the airline personnel were clueless. I was lucky enough to get my rifles on the damn airplane for my initial flight on American Airlines because I didn't have the pre approved SAPS rifle permit "in hand"! They could have cared less about the ammo in my checked bag.
 
Q: Along similar lines, but this one involving components (including primers and powder discs.) I've seen hollywood hunters take game with muzzleloaders in Africa...I have a newer Rem 700 Xtreme MuzzleLoader that uses a primed brass cartridge in the chamber, and powder discs with a bullet in the barrel. How on earth could that be temporarily imported for hunting (or flown on a plane?) I could put the discs inside the brass cases and slide the bullets in (it'd be just like loaded ammo!) lol Otherwise all the components would be separate, but in ammo boxes. 300 gr all copper bullet going 2,450-2,750 fps depending upon powder charge and I accurized it just like a 700 centerfire (timney trigger, bedding, aligned talley rings, etc.) Target is sighting it in from L. to R. then down for the BDC reticle, so a group would be <1" (probably touching.) I love this thing!
Because black powder is so volatile, you might have trouble getting an airline to transport it. I'd be interested to hear what you learn.
 

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