The “458 Winchester Magnum, all the cartridge you’ll ever need” thread.

[Northern Shooter]

Seeing as both the 500 Jeffery and 505 Gibbs cartridges both have dedicated threads, I thought I’d give Africas #1 underdog the same love.

We all know the history of the 458 WinMag and the teething issues it experienced in the early years. We also know those issues have been resolved with modern powders and bullets.

Modern factory ammo will produce 2,100-2,140 fps for 500 grain bullets out of a 24” barrel and reloading will easily let you surpass 2,150 fps.

Considering the vaunted 450NE produced these velocities (sometimes less in reality) with a 480gr bullet which proved more than adequate on everything up to and including elephant, the 458 WM is more of the same with a higher S.D of .341.

5,100+ft-lbs of energy out of the lowest recoiling of the 0.458 DG cartridges at sub 65 ft-lbs out of a 10 lbs rifle, why would you ever want or need more with the additional recoil penalty?

Due to the cartridges compact OAL it can be used in a standard length action, not requiring a bulkier or more expensive magnum length action.

The cartridge can be reloaded with an extremely versatile range of projectiles ranging between 250-550gr making it suitable for everything from white tail and hogs up to bull elephant.

All in a relatively light and affordable package with readily available and affordable ammo (by DG standards).

What’s not to love? It’s like hitting the easy button.

 

[Northern Shooter]

An assortment of the different factory ammo I own:

400 gr Federal TBBC
500 gr Federal TBBC
500 gr Federal Banded Solid
500 gr Norma Solid
500 gr Hornady DGX
450 gr Barnes TTSX
500 gr Winchester Solid

I’ve only ever hunted with the 400 gr TBBC, makes for great bear and moose medicine.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Seeing as both the 500 Jeffery and 505 Gibbs cartridges both have dedicated threads, I thought I’d give Africas #1 underdog the same love.

We all know the history of the 458 WinMag and the teething issues it experienced in the early years. We also know those issues have been resolved with modern powders and bullets.

Modern factory ammo will produce 2,100-2,140 fps for 500 grain bullets out of a 24” barrel and reloading will easily let you surpass 2,150 fps.

Considering the vaunted 450NE produced these velocities (sometimes less in reality) with a 480gr bullet which proved more than adequate on everything up to and including elephant, the 458 WM is more of the same with a higher S.D of .341.

5,100+ft-lbs of energy out of the lowest recoiling of the 0.458 DG cartridges at sub 65 ft-lbs out of a 10 lbs rifle, why would you ever want or need more with the additional recoil penalty?

Due to the cartridges compact OAL it can be used in a standard length action, not requiring a bulkier or more expensive magnum length action.

The cartridge can be reloaded with an extremely versatile range of projectiles ranging between 250-550gr making it suitable for everything from white tail and hogs up to bull elephant.

All in a relatively light and affordable package with readily available and affordable ammo (by DG standards).

What’s not to love? It’s like hitting the easy button.

Well said. I always planned on using mine to take a feral hog in California, but I never did. Loaded to 2160 with 500 grain bullets it works just fine on cape buffalo. Two so far.

 

[Northern Shooter]

Well said. I always planned on using mine to take a feral hog in California, but I never did. Loaded to 2160 with 500 grain bullets it works just fine on cape buffalo. Two so far.

Never used mine on African game but it seems to check all the boxes for taking down the heavies.

The 400-450gr should also be a decent option for the larger plains game.

I have chrono’d my Hornady DGX loads and while advertised at 2,140 fps all 10 shots were over 2,155 fps with the highest being 2,169 fps out of my 24” barrel.

How heavy is your 458 WM?

 

[Ruraldoc]

My 458 is a Brno 602 which has been chambered to accept the Lott cartridge as well.

I don’t think I need a bigger rifle. Still figuring out whether I prefer 458 win or 458 Lott ammo in it.

I haven’t used it for anything other than targets. May take it for hippo on land at some point. Maybe my first elephant.

I have much more experience in the field with the 375 and 416, but it seems that everyone who dreams of Africa needs a true big bore, and they start with the 458s.

 

[Badboymelvin]

I've owned 5 .458's (so far) and I just don't get all the hate that surrounds it...

My first CZ in .458 I was going to Lott it, then actually loaded for it and saw how easy it was to get 2150fps with a 500gn projectile, so left it.

I think if forced to name a favourite cartridge, the .458WM would be it.

I have loaded several different loads for my .458's but my last one the 3 loads were my favourite...

- 73gn BENCHMARK - Winchester Case - CCI 250 Mag Primer - 550gn Woodleigh SP - 2100fps

- 73gn BENCHMARK - Winchester Case - CCI 250 Mag Primer - 450gn Woodleigh Hydro - 2300fps

- 74gn H4895 - Winchester Case - CCI 250 Mag Primer - 480gn Woodleigh SP - 2150fps

These loads were safe in my rifle, but please don't use these loads without dropping a couple of grains and working up.
The Woodleigh Hydro just penetrated like crazy and the 550's really put big deer on their bum.
The 480gn load was mild and had little - if no compression, it was such a great load for the .458 and if l was to choose 1, this would be it.

Every single .458 I've owned have been reliable, super accurate and kicked like crazy!
To anyone seeing a reasonably priced .458 for sale, but are scared off by the horror stories that plaque it to this day... l suggest you give it a chance.
You may just be pleasantly surprised...

 

[Fenstar]

Sorry but the .458 Lott is just better in all regards. I say why compromise when it’s available, and easy.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Never used mine on African game but it seems to check all the boxes for taking down the heavies.

The 400-450gr should also be a decent option for the larger plains game.

I have chrono’d my Hornady DGX loads and while advertised at 2,140 fps all 10 shots were over 2,155 fps with the highest being 2,169 fps out of my 24” barrel.

How heavy is your 458 WM?

About nine pounds, I think. It's a Whitworth Express. I put a Leupold 1.5 to 5 x 24 scope on it and had it Mag-Na-Ported. The recoil.was "snappy" before the addition of the scope and the Mag-Na-Port ing. It's quite manageable now.

 

[Northern Shooter]

About nine pounds, I think. It's a Whitworth Express. I put a Leupold 1.5 to 5 x 24 scope on it and had it Mag-Na-Ported. The recoil.was "snappy" before the addition of the scope and the Mag-Na-Port ing. It's quite manageable now.

My current production Model 70 Safari Express is 9.0lbs even.

I’m exploring options to bump it up to 10lbs+.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Sorry but the .458 Lott is just better in all regards. I say why compromise when it’s available, and easy.

When I bought my Win Mag in the early 80's there were no Lott's and the market. Or at least not in an off the shelf rifle. Since the Winchester shoots clear through a cape buffalo, I can't see a good reason to change. What exactly makes the Lott better? More recoil? Heavier rifle? More expensive action?

 

[Doug Hamilton]

When I bought my Win Mag in the early 80's there were no Lott's and the market. Or at least not in an off the shelf rifle. Since the Winchester shoots clear through a cape buffalo, I can't see a good reason to change. What exactly makes the Lott better? More recoil? Heavier rifle? More expensive action?

 

[Northern Shooter]

A recoil comparison between the two using standard factory Hornady loads in a 10lb rifle.

458 WM - 500gr @ 2,140 fps = 65.51 ft-lbs
458 Lott - 500gr @ 2,300 fps = 78.67 ft-lbs

 

[Sarg]

Stopped a lot of Big Game & small with the .458Win, cheap, easy to find & shoot.

Shot this big Boar off the end of the barrel after a .450/400NE failed to stop him fast enough this season.

I bet most of those old stories are false as I’ve been using it a very long time & with even older ammo, never let me down.

I always ask people why if they tell me they hate or don’t like the .458Win & all haven’t used it or make up a Bullshit story that someone told them or they read in a book/magazine/internet.

 

[Riflecrank]

A recoil comparison between the two using standard factory Hornady loads in a 10lb rifle.

458 WM - 500gr @ 2,140 fps = 65.51 ft-lbs
458 Lott - 500gr @ 2,300 fps = 78.67 ft-lbs

And mention that the .458 WinMag is operating at 60,000 psi MAP and 3.34" COL
while the .458 Lott requires 62,500 psi MAP and 3.6" COL, and even at that it has trouble getting to claimed velocity.
The .458 WinMag has no trouble at all.
That is the Hornady DGX/DGS load for the .458 WinMag.
I have chronographed it in about a half dozen 24"-barreled rifles. Just about spot on in all of them,
except it gave 2196 fps MV in a 24-inch barrel with a shorter throat on the otherwise SAAMI .458 WinMag chamber, though it still had twice the throat length of the SAAMI .458 Lott.

If I load my .458 WinMag with maximum .458 Lott loads and COL about 3.56" I still have room to pour it on.
500-gr TBSS FN at +2400 fps from a 24" barrel by LabRadar, before I had a Garmin XERO,
that is what we call the .458 WM+. That was in a factory Ruger No. 1 .458 WinMag.
If you want to get kicked harder than by a .458 Lott you can easily beat it with a SAAMI-chambered .458 Winchester Magnum.

Oh boy, don't get me started on the .458 Lott propaganda.

 

[Ruraldoc]

I think the proven velocity with a 500 grain bullet is 2150 fps.

If a 458 achieves this level, then it is the equivalent of the 450 nitro and 470 nitro in double rifles.

If the Lott has an advantage in higher velocity, it only comes with more recoil.

Since the recoil of the 458 is the limit for most shooters, the Lott is more gun than we need for nearly any situation.

But in the event of a change at close range, there probably isn’t such a thing as too much gun.

 

[Northern Shooter]

My new production Model 70 Safari Express.

 

[Fatback]

I was fortunate enough to be able to buy a LH Winchester M70 chambered in 458 Win Mag earlier this year. It is stainless with a black synthetic stock. I took it to Zim last month and it worked flawlessly on an old cape buffalo. I was shooting 450 grain AFrames and 500 grain Nosler solids. I’d like to keep shooting the 450 grain AFrames if I can source some more of them. I’ve probably got enough for a couple of more hunts. I will be looking for a different solid to pair with them though. Mine is topped with a Leupold VX5 1-5 scope. @Northern Shooter, a way I get the weight of my rifle up is I use a neoprene cartridge sleeve on the stock and it holds 6 cartridges and for me that makes a noticeable difference in recoil when I am practicing. Here she is with my buffalo.

 

[Northern Shooter]

I think the proven velocity with a 500 grain bullet is 2150 fps.

If a 458 achieves this level, then it is the equivalent of the 450 nitro and 470 nitro in double rifles.

If the Lott has an advantage in higher velocity, it only comes with more recoil.

Since the recoil of the 458 is the limit for most shooters, the Lott is more gun than we need for nearly any situation.

But in the event of a change at close range, there probably isn’t such a thing as too much gun.

One of the main appeals of the 470NE for me was being close to the ballistic twin to the 458WM, in a double.

Of course it has a larger powder charge but it is offset by the heavier rifle making recoil roughly the same.

 

[Northern Shooter]

Great looking rifle and good idea regarding the ammo sleeve. I do have a handcrafted leather sleeve for my 45-70 which fits 7 cartridges.

Same diameter so it should work for the 458 as well.

 

[Hyde Hunter]

why do you guys like to beat yourself up with 500 grain bullets when a 404 Hammer Bullet or a 420 CEB will do the job and if you want to use a solid CEB makes a 400 gr solid. my Buffalo was just as dead with the 404 Hammer as he would have been with a 500 gr in the same shot placement and less recoil.