The “458 Winchester Magnum, all the cartridge you’ll ever need” thread

[cajunchefray]

the 500gr projectiles offer significantly more penetration, especially when looking at solids. while bullets under 450gr may perform well in most situations, they lack the sectional density of the 500gr bullets. this is of course important for back up shots at fleeing or charging dangerous game.

Consider reading the thread by @michael458 regarding very detailed penetration tests with modern monumental FN solids400-450 grains (CEB) and Northfork versus old school 500 grain .458 solids, like Hornady or Remington.

The data is clear. Michael conducted engineering based tests, over hundreds of rounds fired in controlled experiments.
Then he tested these on dozens of dangerous game over several years, all with good results.

Sectional density, as a static measurement, is not the same as functional sectional density performance on game.
It’s an eye opener.

Monumental bullets, with an optimal 67% meplat, in the 400-450 weight range out penetrating conventional 500 grain RN solids every time. And straight line much better for more effective kills.
It’s something I learned, then forgot dozens of years ago.
A .357 magnum hard cast SWC will always out penetrate a RN, in a straight line every single time.
After you get a pass through, how much more do you need?
Hence drop down the bullet weight, load a great bullet design, less recoil.
His extensive testing is worth the read.

 

[cajunchefray]

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Empirical data.

Repeatable in other experiments. Richard Harlon and Ganyana did just this in the bush in Zim on a lot of elephants and buffalo.

Just consider the controlled variables and results.
Following the development of modern monometal bullets, African bullet companies launched the idea, and Western companies perfected these and brought them to the market.

Thanks @michael458 for a thorough scientific analysis.

 

[Ruraldoc]

If I want to hunt dangerous game and plains game with the same rifle, I just stick with my 416 Remington.

Using 400 Partitions spitzers for plains game or big cats and 400 grain A frames for Buffalo, plus solids as needed. My neighbor friend likes 400 grain bear claws and woodleigh hydros.

My longest shot is just short of 200 yards,but my friend has a bushbuck at over 300.

All of our ammo feeds from the magazine.

 

[ldmay375]

Consider reading the thread by @michael458 regarding very detailed penetration tests with modern monumental FN solids400-450 grains (CEB) and Northfork versus old school 500 grain .458 solids, like Hornady or Remington.

The data is clear. Michael conducted engineering based tests, over hundreds of rounds fired in controlled experiments.
Then he tested these on dozens of dangerous game over several years, all with good results.

Sectional density, as a static measurement, is not the same as functional sectional density performance on game.
It’s an eye opener.

Monumental bullets, with an optimal 67% meplat, in the 400-450 weight range out penetrating conventional 500 grain RN solids every time. And straight line much better for more effective kills.
It’s something I learned, then forgot dozens of years ago.
A .357 magnum hard cast SWC will always out penetrate a RN, in a straight line every single time.
After you get a pass through, how much more do you need?
Hence drop down the bullet weight, load a great bullet design, less recoil.
His extensive testing is worth the read.

Yep.
Being that sectional density was hammered into heads for over a century as being the foremost factor of penetration it is hard for many of us to face the reality of bullet design and construction. I was certainly slow to come to the water trough.

Michael went through a lot of time, expense, and bullshat to share factual unbiased information to the general populace. As well, as expending lots of patience in my case.

 

[odonata]

On the right track.
I have a Whitworth.458 that is a dream to handle and shoot.

But I still have an itch for a rebarrelled Ruger 77MKII. Solid action and I like the scope rings to milled action bases.

So far I've been really pleased with my Ruger 77 MkII so I would recommend it as an option to consider. The laminate stock on mine is slender especially in the forearm which some people may not like but feels good to hold in my hands. It may be a bit barrel-heavy with the balance point near the front crossbolt but I like the way it points & shoots. For me, it was a fun project to upsize a 7mm RM to a 458 Win Mag.

It was also an affordable way for me to get a bit more educated about rifles like this because none of my friends have anything like it that I could test shoot so I was coming in kind of blind. As they get older, all of them seem to be retiring their bigger rifles and going for milder shooting rounds. I'm the only oddball who is enthusiastically going in the heavier direction.

 

[cajunchefray]

Empirical data.

Repeatable in other experiments. Richard Harlon and Ganyana did just this in the bush in Zim on a lot of elephants and buffalo.

Just consider the controlled variables and results.
Following the development of modern monometal bullets, African bullet companies launched the idea, and Western companies perfected these and brought them to the market.

Thanks @michael458 for a thorough scientific analysis.

To clarify my recent post:

Correction:
Richard Harland (sp.) did not specify use of monometal solid bullets in the .458 Win Mag but referenced using lighter than 500 grain bullets in a 458 WM Mannlicher for elephant culling.

Source: "African Dangerous Game Cartridges, Pierre van der Walt, page 326.

The reference to Ganyana (Don Heath) is from other sources.
"Nyati : the Art of Hunting the African Buffalo page 109",

Mr. Heath references Zimbabwe Parks purchasing A-Square Monolithic Solids for elephant culling in 1991. From other sources this was 465 grain monolithic solids. Mr. Heath chrono graphed these in 1996, still in spec at 2170fps +/-.
10 years later, the ammo chrono graphed at circa 1780 fps (powder problems).
Fresh ammo was good, old ammo, old school powders, not so.

Both men killed a lot of elephants with the 458 Win Mag, later in their careers, with optimized weight monometal bullets.

 

[Flewis]

On the right track.
I have a Whitworth.458 that is a dream to handle and shoot.

But I still have an itch for a rebarrelled Ruger 77MKII. Solid action and I like the scope rings to milled action bases.

It’s funny you say that as my gunsmith is doing that exact setup for me. The only thing we are going over is sights.

 

[Northern Shooter]

Glad we've had such lively debate on this topic, looks like many here enjoy the 458 as much as I do.

I think I may just dig it out of the safe for White Tail season next week.

 

[BourbonTrail]

If I want to hunt dangerous game and plains game with the same rifle, I just stick with my 416 Remington.

Using 400 Partitions spitzers for plains game or big cats and 400 grain A frames for Buffalo, plus solids as needed. My neighbor friend likes 400 grain bear claws and woodleigh hydros.

My longest shot is just short of 200 yards,but my friend has a bushbuck at over 300.

All of our ammo feeds from the magazine.

I shot @Riflecrank ‘s 458 WM, and it was no worse than my 416 Rem. His 500 Mbogo is a different story.

That said, the 416 Rem is also my preference for an all around cartridge.

 

[Don458]

Just a Heads up -There is a whitworth .458 on GB. New with box and manual https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1072003185

 

[Slyfox72114]

And mention that the .458 WinMag is operating at 60,000 psi MAP and 3.34" COL
while the .458 Lott requires 62,500 psi MAP and 3.6" COL, and even at that it has trouble getting to claimed velocity.
The .458 WinMag has no trouble at all.
That is the Hornady DGX/DGS load for the .458 WinMag.
I have chronographed it in about a half dozen 24"-barreled rifles. Just about spot on in all of them,
except it gave 2196 fps MV in a 24-inch barrel with a shorter throat on the otherwise SAAMI .458 WinMag chamber, though it still had twice the throat length of the SAAMI .458 Lott.

If I load my .458 WinMag with maximum .458 Lott loads and COL about 3.56" I still have room to pour it on.
500-gr TBSS FN at +2400 fps from a 24" barrel by LabRadar, before I had a Garmin XERO,
that is what we call the .458 WM+. That was in a factory Ruger No. 1 .458 WinMag.
If you want to get kicked harder than by a .458 Lott you can easily beat it with a SAAMI-chambered .458 Winchester Magnum.

Oh boy, don't get me started on the .458 Lott propaganda.

This seems like a savvy lot here! I’ve never been in a thread before so forgive me if I’m breaking protocol here.
I have a 458 question possible problem.
I recently purchased US 1917 Eddystone
P O Ackley improved 458. It’s a sharp looking rifle that looks hardly handled it’s neat and clean. my problem is after disassembling the gun there’s no evidence it’s a PO Ackley 458 other than what the owner said which was the father or grandfather bought it direct from PO Ackley gun shop.
I wanted a simple big bore rifle open sites to take to Africa for Cape Buffalo. Question is should I just shoot a 458 Lott or for 458 WinMag through the rifle or reload the actual Ackley bullet which will require some doing?
Seems some practice rounds from Lott/Win mag is doable. Just not sure what I should do and need some advice from 458 people Thanks in Advance!