The "Best" big bore cartridges ever created!!!

[318AE]

Tug - Help remind me, exactly how many dangerous game animals have you taken in Africa? When I’m on the sticks in scrub and thorns, there are a lot of things that come to mind, but it’s not thousandths of an inch of caliber or foot pounds of energy.

 

[Tug]

@Northern

As someone who owns both a 458WM and 470NE it’s an interesting comparison between the two and how much “less efficient” the 470NE is.

All the classic African cartridges with voluptuous case capacities (Cordite) will score poorly here compared to their standard action brethren.

Also, where’s the recoil factor?

Recoil table is here, https://chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

This is the only factory load data I could find on the internet for 458 Lott at 2300fps

500 gr
DGS 86.0 gr 2520 (Accurate) 2310fps 61000psi Hodgdon

Only for the price of 9 more foot pounds of recoil though compared to 458 Winchester Mag.

Also 34.4% looks like PH cares about efficient cartridges after all, whether they know it or not!

 

[Tug]

Tug - Help remind me, exactly how many dangerous game animals have you taken in Africa? When I’m on the sticks in scrub and thorns, there are a lot of things that come to mind, but it’s not thousandths of an inch of caliber or foot pounds of energy.

318AE - Remind me how many animals have you taken in Siberia at -28 °C?

Numbers are numbers if you don't like them, stick your head in the sand!

 

[1dirthawker]

@Tug,

i appreciate the effort you put into this thread. keep in mind, you will likely get a bit of backlash when you dis their favorite gun, caliber, dog etc.

now I'm gonna sit back and see what happens,

 

[Frederik]

Interesting post with a lot of info.
I might be bias owning a 458 Lott and loving it.

All this number crunching is fun but none of the animals we hunt read these or understand them.

If it was a numbers game only most of us would have owned a 460 WBY the other part of the coin and for me the more important part is the actual bullet the rifle does not kill the animal.
The bullet is causing the trauma and damage to kill an animal.
Most bullets 30 years ago could not handle the 460 WBY velocities that has changed but the severe recoil has not.

 

[John Telford]

Interesting and obviously in a perfect world this data would be relevant. I had Hornady .458 Lott ammo that was shooting @2050 fps which is like shooting the .458WM and not good when hunting big bodied Botswana elephants! I pulled the bullets and lo and behold clumped powder! So we are back to square one and after much deliberation with Pierre van der Walt I settled on getting a .450 Rigby as my second big bore to back up clients . The first is the .505 shooting 600 grains. Recoil is stout but not as noticeable as an elephant foot on your chest!
Pierre developed the .458 African some time ago to overcome all these difficulties. It’s basically a 404 Jeffery necked up and by his own admission very similar to Jeff Coopers .460 GA .
@Tug could you also please run the data for the .416 Taylor which is a necked down .458 win mag . I suspect this will surprise us especially in the recoil department!

 

[franzfmdavis]

@Tug Thank you for taking the time to prepare and post the data. It is a fascinating comparison to take into consideration. I can only imagine the amount of work it took to sort all of that into the digestible and concise formats you created and I appreciate it.

 

[BryceM]

Tug, the information is interesting, but the tone makes me want to dismiss it. Pleasant conversations are useful and fun, and might even enlighten a few folks. Being argumentative will cause you to be ignored, even if you're right.