The Ghost and The Darkness - two questions

[JimP]

You have to realize that very few movies follow what actually happens in real life situations.

Throwing the rifle from one tree to another was dramatic effect. How many of us thought that he was a gonner afterwards?

 

[DLSJR]

I haven’t been to the museum to see the lions, but did stop at the bridge back in February when we visited Tsavo East & West. It was pretty neat to spend a bit of time where the lions stopped The construction.

 

[Sika98k]

I’ve seen them several times. I always visited the Field Museum whenever I went to Chicago. Alas, I‘ll never see it or them again! Nothing is worth being in Chicago.

They're maneless, which I understand is not that unusual. Their depredations were what made them different. The were reportedly in fine health and were not old. How they came to be such prolific man eaters is unknown. The apparently just developed a taste for railway workers.

They may have acquired a taste for curry flavoured meat !

 

[Major Bonkers]

Patterson's original Tsavo river bridge was blown up by the Germans in the First World War, and the photographs here are of its replacement.

Sleeping in a railway carriage would not have saved you; in one of the most horrific episodes, after Patterson had dealt with the Tsavo man-eaters, a lion got into a railway carriage being used as sleeping quarters. It stood on the man in the lower bunk in order to reach the man (Charles Ryall) on the upper bunk; the third man getting out behind the lion's back as it mauled Ryall.

I was disappointed in the film. Apart from Michael Douglas' know-all character turning to show those dumb-ass limeys how it's done - and his ridiculous costume - the true story is far more interesting.

Aside from Patterson's own book, Capstick wrote a precis of the episode in 'Death in the Silent Places'. An excellent book about the railway - an engineering achievement in itself - is 'The Lunatic Express'.

 

[mark-hunter]

What we need now, and again, is new Hollywood movie about hunting and old african frontier.
Lat year they released movie Beast. But this is B production. For me, not even entertaining, and far away from any reality. Lame.

 

[stef256]

Was it the 9.3 x 74r that eventually did them in??

Patterson’s main rifle was a 303 Lee-Speed..which he used on the lions...

 

[FlowHamed18]

The book is great to read, including all the pictures of his hunts.

The story of why the lions decided to choose humans as their prey is discussed in several scientific workpapers:

https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2017/04...bout-the-legendary-man-eating-lions-of-tsavo/

The best one imho

Dietary behaviour of man-eating lions as revealed by dental microwear textures - Scientific Reports

Lions (Panthera leo) feed on diverse prey species, a range that is broadened by their cooperative hunting. Although humans are not typical prey, habitual man-eating by lions is well documented. Fathoming the motivations of the Tsavo and Mfuwe man-eaters (killed in 1898 in Kenya and 1991 in...

www.nature.com

 

[Marshall T Farr]

No doubt much has been discussed about the Tsavo lions on this forum, but let's have some fun with these two questions:

1. Who has actually visited the Field Museum in Chicago to view these two mounts on display?

2. What, if anything, would you have done differently than was depicted in the movie or the book in order to deal with these two?

I have visited and seen their display, my wife and i visited Chicago in 2005....magnificient maneless lions...not terribly large either

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I don’t consider myself to be any great authority on the subject, but since I’ve shot 3 man eating Royal Bengal tigers and 7 lions over the years (with 1 of them being a confirmed man eater)… I’ll have a go at this.

1) When constructing a macchan for hunting a man eating great cat, it must be made to appear is if it’s a natural part of a tree. It also must be high enough to prevent the lion from reaching you with a determined jump.

2) The .303 British is not a suitable lion caliber. Since these events took place in 1898 (and I’d have to limit myself to armaments available in that era), my weapon of choice would have been an 8 gauge Holland & Holland Paradox gun (loaded with 10 drams of Curtis & Harvey’s #6 coarse grained black powder and a 2 1/2 ounce lead hollow point Express bullet). It may have been antiquated even for 1898, but it would absolutely crumple a lion.

3) I wouldn’t employ so many helping hands to hunt down the lion. I would just keep one extra person with me to hold a torchlight for me. It’s incredibly difficult to keep large numbers of people quiet and under control while waiting for a lion/tiger. They are also liable to panic more. Colonel Patterson recalls one of the lions getting stuck in a cage trap and many local workers were trying to shoot him while he was trapped. Not only did they all miss, but one of their bullets a actually broke the cage lock and allowed the man eater to escape.

4) Whenever a natural kill of one of the man eaters would get reported, I would immediately have the kill-site cordoned off in order to prevent anybody from moving the man eater’s partially consumed natural kill. I would then have a macchan built to overlook the kill-site and lie in wait (with just one reliable assistant) for the animal to return to complete feeding.

And yes, I’ve seen the two lions at the museum in 2017 with my grandchildren. Will share a photo soon, as my daughter still has it framed.

 

[uplander01]

Great book and imo the last era of Hollywood movies that are worth a crap. Done differently, idk, Probably would have called in somebody with a good troop of dogs….someone had to be running ridgebacks by then. And I would have had better rifles in the first place, and never never swapped.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Was it the 9.3 x 74r that eventually did them in??

It was a borrowed Martini Henry in .577/450 caliber that delivered the killing shot on the lions after the .303 Lee Enfield proved to be too inefficient. The events took place in 1898 and the 9.3x74mm R was introduced in 1900 (2 years later).

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Gorge Rushby used a 9.3 double with good effect on the man eaters of Njombe. This was right after the Second World War if I recall.

 

[spike.t]

Patterson's original Tsavo river bridge was blown up by the Germans in the First World War, and the photographs here are of its replacement.

Sleeping in a railway carriage would not have saved you; in one of the most horrific episodes, after Patterson had dealt with the Tsavo man-eaters, a lion got into a railway carriage being used as sleeping quarters. It stood on the man in the lower bunk in order to reach the man (Charles Ryall) on the upper bunk; the third man getting out behind the lion's back as it mauled Ryall.

I was disappointed in the film. Apart from Michael Douglas' know-all character turning to show those dumb-ass limeys how it's done - and his ridiculous costume - the true story is far more interesting.

Aside from Patterson's own book, Capstick wrote a precis of the episode in 'Death in the Silent Places'. An excellent book about the railway - an engineering achievement in itself - is 'The Lunatic Express'.

Yup I thought the film was bit crap myself as well....

 

[leslie hetrick]

if the workers were chinese, many more would have been eaten. you know what they say about chinese food.

 

[Safari Dave]

if the workers were chinese, many more would have been eaten. you know what they say about chinese food.

The lions would have to buy a Whopper on the way home.....

 

[Daniel Cary]

There's a lot out since YouTube. "Bunny Allen" 3mins in is pretty funny, good though ..

 

[Rare Breed]

I saw them in 1982. Apparently, the skins were in bad shape after Patterson used them as rugs for 25 years. They looked pretty beat up, but it was interesting to see the skulls.
View attachment 537027

i know it is just pictures but they seem so small…anyone know how much they weighed

 

[Rare Breed]

One of my favorite movies growing up. I had the opportunity to run around Tsavo East bush a few years back and saw the bridge, something of the childhood dream come true.

View attachment 537051

as you know while so cool for being in the exact area where history occurred which had to be an awesome experience it is my understanding the original bridge was destroyed in WWI? I do not know when it was rebuilt into the picture above?

 

[Rare Breed]

View attachment 537053View attachment 537052

wow, what a difference in size which all previous posts support due to rugs back to full mounts

 

[Rare Breed]

I don’t consider myself to be any great authority on the subject, but since I’ve shot 3 man eating Royal Bengal tigers and 7 lions over the years (with 1 of them being a confirmed man eater)… I’ll have a go at this.
View attachment 537097
View attachment 537098View attachment 537099View attachment 537100View attachment 537101View attachment 537102
1) When constructing a macchan for hunting a man eating great cat, it must be made to appear is if it’s a natural part of a tree. It also must be high enough to prevent the lion from reaching you with a determined jump.

2) The .303 British is not a suitable lion caliber. Since these events took place in 1898 (and I’d have to limit myself to armaments available in that era), my weapon of choice would have been an 8 gauge Holland & Holland Paradox gun (loaded with 10 drams of Curtis & Harvey’s #6 coarse grained black powder and a 2 1/2 ounce lead hollow point Express bullet). It may have been antiquated even for 1898, but it would absolutely crumple a lion.

3) I wouldn’t employ so many helping hands to hunt down the lion. I would just keep one extra person with me to hold a torchlight for me. It’s incredibly difficult to keep large numbers of people quiet and under control while waiting for a lion/tiger. They are also liable to panic more. Colonel Patterson recalls one of the lions getting stuck in a cage trap and many local workers were trying to shoot him while he was trapped. Not only did they all miss, but one of their bullets a actually broke the cage lock and allowed the man eater to escape.

4) Whenever a natural kill of one of the man eaters would get reported, I would immediately have the kill-site cordoned off in order to prevent anybody from moving the man eater’s partially consumed natural kill. I would then have a macchan built to overlook the kill-site and lie in wait (with just one reliable assistant) for the animal to return to complete feeding.

And yes, I’ve seen the two lions at the museum in 2017 with my grandchildren. Will share a photo soon, as my daughter still has it framed.

Always so enjoy your comments and experience especially with cats!!!