The Ultimate Dangerous Game Rifle

[CBH Australia]

@Tally-Ho Hunting Safaris
Can you elaborate on the .416 reference above?
I have limited experience in big bore selling my .458wm to fund a .375H&H.
In hindsight I should have waited for a Brno 602 in .375 and maybe chambered the CZ .458 to Lott.

I don't need 2 big bores but I like rifles and may buy another bigger than the .375, I would have considered .416 so I'm curious.

Ruger have a .416 Ruger which is meant to perform on a smaller case etc. I'm not after that but Ruger only developed 2 heavy calibers to compete with the classics.

I'd also like an all weather in a heavy clambering .338 wm or above. A bear rifle. But I find it hard to justify that to my budget living in Australia. I can use my timber stocked CZ in my dry climate if I suddenly find a rogue Grizzly in my neck of the woods.

 

[Von S.]

When you aim and squeese the triger there are 4 things that can happen and which one you get is completely up to you.

(1) You can miss. Depending on your inability and lack of correct choices of caliber, round and bullet, a "miss" may be about the kindest thing many people can do when hunting.

(2) You can wound. For me "a wound" is anytime you shoot an animal and it makes it 300 yards or better.

(3) You can kill. Which is a death sustained by one shot where the animal goes no further that 300 yards and gets X's where his eyes once were.

(4) You can stop. With every shot having the possibility of being a stopper....but maybe just not for the animal you ate shooting at. A .22 lr will easily stop a groundhog at 50 yards. Kill it at 100. Wound it 150 and with luck absolutely miss at 200. Move up to a 22 mag and leathality raises quite a bit as does distance and so on....

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

@Tally-Ho Hunting Safaris
Can you elaborate on the .416 reference above?
I have limited experience in big bore selling my .458wm to fund a .375H&H.
In hindsight I should have waited for a Brno 602 in .375 and maybe chambered the CZ .458 to Lott.

I don't need 2 big bores but I like rifles and may buy another bigger than the .375, I would have considered .416 so I'm curious.

Ruger have a .416 Ruger which is meant to perform on a smaller case etc. I'm not after that but Ruger only developed 2 heavy calibers to compete with the classics.

I'd also like an all weather in a heavy clambering .338 wm or above. A bear rifle. But I find it hard to justify that to my budget living in Australia. I can use my timber stocked CZ in my dry climate if I suddenly find a rogue Grizzly in my neck of the woods.

Hi Chris

not sure what part you want me to elaborate on
i am not a technical guy as far as ballistics etc go, if it works, dont fix it
i have a friend who does my reloads for most of my other rifles
416 i use factory ammo for now, will move to reloads fairly soon

i have used a 416 rem mag for about 8-10 years now

it is a blaser R8, topped with a burris fastfire 3
this is my main rifle as a PH if we are doing dangerous game, lions, buff, croc hippo(main ones i do)
i use it when backing up on plains game too mainly because most of the time a client will be using my 375 H+H
i have had to follow up and shoot anything from hyena, bushpig, most plains game, buff, lion etc with this gun

my very first kill was a young warthog, shot with open sights face on at about 40/50 m, went straight through the head and penetrated about 15 inches into a marula tree trunk just behind the pig, that was a 400gr soft point

it has yet to let me down!!! (touch wood) in any aspect.
penetration is amazing
its a pleasure to shoot compared to a 416 rigby (kicks like a mule)
ammo is easy to get , i use federal 400 gr bear claw, and 400 gr solids
shot a buff running away at about 30m in the hip and it exited the tip of the nose, smashing the skull on the way
have hunted elephant with it too and dropped it on the spot, funny enough my PH in zim also used a 416 rem mag he used that gun for about 15 years and also loved the calibre and it never failed him.( and he was hunting ele and buff etc all year)
i have also hit antelope out to about 150m with the sight i have on
never used a scope on it but i can hit a 4 inch group at 100m pretty well with the burris

so for me, you must enjoy shooting a gun, i prefer heavy guns, if you dont enjoy shooting a gun then you wont shoot it enough or you will shoot badly so sell it or use a calibre that can perform and you enjoy shooting

hope this answers a few questions
anything else feel free to ask

 

[HWL]

All I need...

https://www.africahunting.com/media/a-square-hannibal-rifle-in-470-capstick.74084/


HWL

 

[perttime]

All I need...

https://www.africahunting.com/media/a-square-hannibal-rifle-in-470-capstick.74084/


HWL

Should be adequate....
The stocks on those A-Squares don't look quite conventional. Any advantages or disadvantages?

 

[BeeMaa]

Should be adequate....
The stocks on those A-Squares don't look quite conventional. Any advantages or disadvantages?

There is a member here (@USMA84DAB) who worked at A-Square and has a few stock blanks for sale in the classified.
From what he told me the butt of the stock is wider to spread out the recoil force over a larger area of the shoulder.
I know there are other differences, but that is one of the major ones.

 

[HWL]

Beemaa said it!!!...and I changed some little things.

New recoil pad, checkering, hardwood forend and detachable sling swivels.

It's fun to shoot.... and it gives me the feeling, I can stop everything.

Hopefully, I do not have to proof this


HWL

 

[CBH Australia]

Hi Chris

not sure what part you want me to elaborate on
i am not a technical guy as far as ballistics etc go, if it works, dont fix it
i have a friend who does my reloads for most of my other rifles
416 i use factory ammo for now, will move to reloads fairly soon

i have used a 416 rem mag for about 8-10 years now

it is a blaser R8, topped with a burris fastfire 3
this is my main rifle as a PH if we are doing dangerous game, lions, buff, croc hippo(main ones i do)
i use it when backing up on plains game too mainly because most of the time a client will be using my 375 H+H
i have had to follow up and shoot anything from hyena, bushpig, most plains game, buff, lion etc with this gun

my very first kill was a young warthog, shot with open sights face on at about 40/50 m, went straight through the head and penetrated about 15 inches into a marula tree trunk just behind the pig, that was a 400gr soft point

it has yet to let me down!!! (touch wood) in any aspect.
penetration is amazing
its a pleasure to shoot compared to a 416 rigby (kicks like a mule)
ammo is easy to get , i use federal 400 gr bear claw, and 400 gr solids
shot a buff running away at about 30m in the hip and it exited the tip of the nose, smashing the skull on the way
have hunted elephant with it too and dropped it on the spot, funny enough my PH in zim also used a 416 rem mag he used that gun for about 15 years and also loved the calibre and it never failed him.( and he was hunting ele and buff etc all year)
i have also hit antelope out to about 150m with the sight i have on
never used a scope on it but i can hit a 4 inch group at 100m pretty well with the burris

so for me, you must enjoy shooting a gun, i prefer heavy guns, if you dont enjoy shooting a gun then you wont shoot it enough or you will shoot badly so sell it or use a calibre that can perform and you enjoy shooting

hope this answers a few questions
anything else feel free to ask

Got it! I see earlier you said .416 Rem Mag and then I see you said you are not a fan of the .416 Rigby.
I can google the differences.
I had heard Alf a .416 Taylor too.
For me it would be the most common .416 chambering that I would look for I reload but I don’t want to be sourcing expensive cases.
I’d like to handle a Blaser sometime. From what I read here those that buy them are quick to promote them.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

big difference in the cases of 416 rigby and 416 rem mag, not familiar with the taylor
rigby uses a lot more powder etc for the same balistics

 

[Nyati]

I would give exactly the same answer as when asked about a personal protection handgun, the largest caliber that you can handle efficiently, in a reliable package.

For me that would be a .375HH

A Heym "Express" would be nice

 

[chashardy]

I posted a pic of my new John Rigby Big Game 416 before. I have just installed the optics on it, so here are a couple of newer pics. The scope is a Leupold VX 6HD 1-6X24. It has the CDS dial, which I have ordered and should be here in a day or so. I've been practicing with the Rigby at the range and still getting used to it. For those who haven't experienced big bore rifles, the recoil is not a lot different than my 375 H&H. Only problem is 416 Rigby ammo is pricey!! Even if I only shoot two 4 round groups, at $8 to $10 per round, it's an expensive day at the range!!

 

[perttime]

Nice Rigby. All business, no frills.
I suspect making your own ammunition would soon become economical if you shoot the big bores a lot.

 

[Dr Ray]

Gotcha! I believe you have a 404 J on the way in an MRC. If it functions smoothly; is accurate (MOA is nice, but 2” is probably fine for anything except croc); I would think it would be a grand client rifle for anything on earth with the appropriate bullet! (Obviously I’m envious of your new rifle!)

I think the shooter and bullet almost have more to do with it than the rifle or cartridge. JMO

Of course!

 

[Major Khan]

My views should not be perceived as gospel , as l am only talking about what my clients would bring to India 50 years ago . Today , many more excellent choices exist , which l am certain more modern sports men with more skill than l , can endorse . Based on the choices available from what all of my clients would bring , l would choose the following .
For a client :
I am partial to the pre 1964 Winchester model 70 bolt rifle with a heavy barrel myself , using the .375 Holland and Holland magnum cartridge .
This was the best commercially available rifle which a client would bring to India . Even though , it was an American design , even some of my staunchest British clients would bring them along for shikar . I never saw one fail
For a professional shikaree :
The above rifle will do in all situations , except one . If the shikaree is going after a wounded panther into long grass . Then , you need a short barreled double rifle with automatic ejectors , twin triggers and and a bore of at least 9.3 calibre . But it should have no automatic safety.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

I believe you can insert 100 different model/cartridge configurations, maybe 1000’s but what really matters is that first round out of the tube! The rifle you are comfortable with, that seems to fall into place on your shoulder and cheek, the one that topping off in a lull of action is second nature, this is the perfect DG rifle. The last thing you want is to be hunting with a 470 because someone told you it was supreme when a 375 is what you are comfortable with. Regardless of the expectations you have of your PH to sort out a problem, I believe it a fools error to place all of your eggs in one basket. You both have mechanical tools made by humans in your hands. Failure can happen at any time regardless of your title or skill level so best be prepared for contingency. Familiarity, built through training and practice are your best insurance not how pretty the walnut is, what action you have, not even that you have the most powerful thing under the stars. Proficiency with a Ruger No.1 in 375 would make me more confident than having a 505 Gibbs in my hands that I questioned myself with. There are so many excellent rifles to choose from it would be crazy to tell anyone what is best for them. Do I have my personal opinion of what I think is near perfect? Maybe until something that feels better comes along.

Another thing I am noticing is most people seem to be very clearly splitting the rifles up into "client" and "PH" I am sure nearly all rifles can be used for both except maybe a single shot for a PH. And also what about us that hunt DG without a PH? Does that make me the PH? And therefore I should only be using the "PH" rifles? haha Me no think any of this makes sense.

 

[grand veneur]

Another thing I am noticing is most people seem to be very clearly splitting the rifles up into "client" and "PH" I am sure nearly all rifles can be used for both except maybe a single shot for a PH. And also what about us that hunt DG without a PH? Does that make me the PH? And therefore I should only be using the "PH" rifles? haha Me no think any of this makes sense.

I would see it more differentiated.

If you hunt alone you have to make your own backup. Then it's up to you what you choose.

Different when I come hunting as a client and know that I have a PH as a support who will earn his money and whose position I don't want to contest him under any circumstances. No matter how , he has more experience than me , even if I hunt alone sometimes. In the last case I'm also dependent in Africa on good guides and trackers. Then what about the rifle ? In this case it is not necessary to carry the heaviest rifle you can master. Rather , a lighter one that is still suitable. The PH will and wants to help you. You also don't want to face your PH as a show-off with a too big rifle , even if you master it , which not everyone can guess. At the end we are by the ultimate DG rifle , which is a rifle caliber 416 , generally accepted as a suitable rifle for a client , and still a big bore and a conditional backup rifle.

 

[WAB]

The DG being pursued has a big impact on the rifle. When I lived in Alaska I ran a boat on the coast and did a lot of brown bear hunting on my own or with a friend. I have a custom M70 in .375 H&H that points like a wand. The .375 with .270 gr Swift A-Frames is an absolute stopper on these brutes.

That same rifle would not be considered a stopper in Africa. My go to rifle for DG on the dark continent is a 22” barreled M70 in .458 Lott. It is equipped with a 1-6x scope in Talley QD mounts. Shooting sub moa, it can make that precise shot when needed and it has enough punch to give you some confidence in a tough spot.

Are these rifles perfect? No, but they have never let me down.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

I would see it more differentiated.

If you hunt alone you have to make your own backup. Then it's up to you what you choose.

Different when I come hunting as a client and know that I have a PH as a support who will earn his money and whose position I don't want to contest him under any circumstances. No matter how , he has more experience than me , even if I hunt alone sometimes. In the last case I'm also dependent in Africa on good guides and trackers. Then what about the rifle ? In this case it is not necessary to carry the heaviest rifle you can master. Rather , a lighter one that is still suitable. The PH will and wants to help you. You also don't want to face your PH as a show-off with a too big rifle , even if you master it , which not everyone can guess. At the end we are by the ultimate DG rifle , which is a rifle caliber 416 , generally accepted as a suitable rifle for a client , and still a big bore and a conditional backup rifle.

I do understand what you are saying but I think maybe I just look at it a bit differently, maybe because I haven't actually hunted in Africa and do a lot of hunting without a PH I just have a different perspective?
Having said that though for me even if I was hunting with a PH I think I would still approach it as if I was hunting DG alone and not change what I was carrying or shooting just because there is someone else with me. Also your PH isn't guaranteed to back you up, what if the PH is injured in a charge and now you are the one that not only has to save yourself but also save an injured PH. I think maybe I just look at possible worse case scenario and like to be prepared for it myself.

 

[BeeMaa]

I do understand what you are saying but I think maybe I just look at it a bit differently, maybe because I haven't actually hunted in Africa and do a lot of hunting without a PH I just have a different perspective?
Having said that though for me even if I was hunting with a PH I think I would still approach it as if I was hunting DG alone and not change what I was carrying or shooting just because there is someone else with me. Also your PH isn't guaranteed to back you up, what if the PH is injured in a charge and now you are the one that not only has to save yourself but also save an injured PH. I think maybe I just look at possible worse case scenario and like to be prepared for it myself.

Taking an accurate first shot on Dangerous Game at 50 to 100 yards is a client's job.
Being able to STOP Dangerous Game at 5 yards will fall more to the PH, but the client needs to be shooting as well.

I understand that we all want to be responsible for ourselves and independent, but there is a reason for having backup.
There is a reason I'm worthless with a 500NE and my PH is amazing.
I bet if I asked him to come repair commercial boilers, he wouldn't know crap.
But that's my profession and as such I have professional knowledge and skills in that area.
Just as he has the proper knowledge and skills to be hunting DG.

If I was that good with a DG rifle, I'd be getting paid to be in Africa...not paying for a safari.
I'm a client and I'll stay in my lane.

 

[grand veneur]

If I was that good with a DG rifle, I'd be getting paid to be in Africa...not paying for a safari.
I'm a client and I'll stay in my lane.

Handling a big bore rifle is not enough to be a PH. Otherwise many of us would be PH. There are a few additional skills , patience with the client , for example. I can handle an big bore rifle , but I have no patience. I would as PH fail there.