Thermal Scope

[Manny R]

I have a dilemma and this is my go to place to get the best answers.
My PH wants me to get a Thermal clip on to my Swarovski Z8i for my Lion hunt in Zimbabwe. . At the SCI I order the Swarovski TM35 Thermal Scope. After I received my Thermal with the correct clip-on; the clip- on did not fit because of the rear sight. I do not wish to take off the rear sight as I may wish to remove my quick release scope if something goes wrong and in close contact . We were going to install a Hight Mount base but doing that it will increase the chance of scope hitting my face or cheekbone. and be uncomfortable for shooting. My PH has lights but from experiences light is on and Lion runs away.
Any ideas open for discussion.
Thanks in advance

 

[mdwest]

most thermals are not legal to "export" (to include temporarily, for your own personal use) out of the US without obtaining an export license from DDTC at the US State Dept.

Thats not to say it doesn't happen regularly. Lots of people take lots of stuff out of the country and bring it back that they arent supposed to.. its nearly impossible to keep track of the laws and regulations.. and the TSA and Customs Agents at the airport are often no more aware of the difference in a Gen 2 NV device (largely unregulated) and a thermal (heavily regulated)...

just saying don't be surprised when you get the 1 customs guy in the entire airport that knows what a swaro clip on is... then gives you a very, very hard time either trying to leave the US or trying to get back in..

 

[Sarg]

I have a dilemma and this is my go to place to get the best answers.
My PH wants me to get a Thermal clip on to my Swarovski Z8i for my Lion hunt in Zimbabwe. . At the SCI I order the Swarovski TM35 Thermal Scope. After I received my Thermal with the correct clip-on; the clip- on did not fit because of the rear sight. I do not wish to take off the rear sight as I may wish to remove my quick release scope if something goes wrong and in close contact . We were going to install a Hight Mount base but doing that it will increase the chance of scope hitting my face or cheekbone. and be uncomfortable for shooting. My PH has lights but from experiences light is on and Lion runs away.
Any ideas open for discussion.
Thanks in advance

Are you traveling/living from the US then this could be a issue, we have a fair few hunters bringing over thermals both spotters & scopes, I have found the Blaser crew have nice QTF mounts & swap over between Thermal/Night Vision scopes & back to normal day scopes, which has worked well, a few clip ons to, but if you have QTF scope now just add a complete thermal scope maybe ?

if he has a small red light on a rheostat behind the bait, this should work as it does on leopards, I have had good success with them on leopards but strangely not so with Brown Hyena, who spook on even the slightest light, this is with ranch area hunts.

 

[Daisy]

most thermals are not legal to "export" (to include temporarily, for your own personal use) out of the US without obtaining an export license from DDTC at the US State Dept.

Thats not to say it doesn't happen regularly. Lots of people take lots of stuff out of the country and bring it back that they arent supposed to.. its nearly impossible to keep track of the laws and regulations.. and the TSA and Customs Agents at the airport are often no more aware of the difference in a Gen 2 NV device (largely unregulated) and a thermal (heavily regulated)...

just saying don't be surprised when you get the 1 customs guy in the entire airport that knows what a swaro clip on is... then gives you a very, very hard time either trying to leave the US or trying to get back in..

I’ve always thought this too. But it seems quite a few people have legally taken their thermals with no issues.

 

[mdwest]

theres no doubt that Gen 3 NV is not exportable without a license, and Gen 4 and above is expressly prohibited (cant get a license).. and that thermal optics are also controlled by ITAR (22 CFR 120-130)..

but.. its hard to find a Customs guy that even knows what does and doesn't belong on a form 4457.. much less what 22 CFR 120-130 says..

So.. generally speaking, is fairly safe to take personally owned "electronic" optics out of the country.. its highly unlikely anyone you're going to deal with on the US side is going to be a problem...

But.. that definitely doesn't make it "legal"..

 

[coreydb]

I know night vision and thermal scopes are legal in South Africa, as long as they ARE NOT mil-grade or mil spec. Research carefully. Same with other African countries.

 

[mdwest]

I know night vision and thermal scopes are legal in South Africa, as long as they ARE NOT mil-grade or mil spec. Research carefully. Same with other African countries.

The issue isnt South Africa..

The issue is with the US...

Thermals are regulated by the US State Dept Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC) and also in part by the US Dept of Commerce Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS). DDTC owns "ITAR" and BIS owns "EAR".

So before you take a thermal out of the US, you are required to get a "temporary export" license for it. Otherwise you are committing a crime.

The earlier point was simply that thermals and jaywalking have a bit in common..

it is also a crime to jaywalk in many jurisdictions.. but, its a criminal act that is rarely enforced..

 

[Daisy]

Can the rifles permit people get you the “temporary export license?”

 

[mdwest]

No. You have to obtain the license from the US State Dept as the owner/exporter.

There are consultants that will do all the paperwork for you.. but the cost would be prohibitive for a single item (you’d pay as much for the license request as you did for the night vision)..

The best solution in my opinion is just ask the outfitter to buy you something. NV and thermals are more expensive in SA… but, there are no regulations preventing you from “exporting” them from South Africa… and from what I can tell no restriction on you “importing” them into the US (although they may hit you for the tax)…

The only restriction is exporting them from the US…