Thinking of getting CZ in 9.3X62

[sestoppelman]

I have used the 9.3x62 extensively in Tanzania and So. Africa. I have shot a number of buffalo with it. I can handload my strong Mauser with a 26 inch barrel and long throat enableing me to seat out the bullets to a safe 2450 FPS with RL-15 and and the 320 gr. Woodleigh. I load my .375 to 2500 FPS with a 300 gr. bullet, I have never been able to tell any difference between the two on buffalo. It is a grand caliber set up in such a manor as above and capable of killing any animal on the planet. A requirment of any caliber is proper placement of the first shot, and it helps greatly to do the same on follow up shots. Good shooting and proper bullet construction is the key. not caliber within reason.

Ray and I have talked about this before. I find the figures above while possible, slightly misleading though I am not accusing Ray of purposely misleading anyone. If as he states one uses his loads per above, it gives the 9.3x62 an advantage in energy figures which is the misleading part. His figures net the 9.3x62 a muzzle energy of 4266 ft/lbs. and the much larger .375 H&H with a mere 4164 ft/lbs! The .375 enjoys a fair advantage in powder room (and bullet diameter) over the 9.3x62, over 20 grs of water which is considerable. Now Ray can load his rounds any way he likes but it doesnt reflect the true nature of either round. Ray may be able to coax these kinds of speeds out of his particular 9.3 but its doubtful that most would, whereas on the other hand, any good average .375 can push a 300 gr bullet to over 2600 fps and some even approaching 2700fps. I used to load mine to just under 2600 with my loads which were pretty effective. I dont dispute the efficiency of the 9.3 on game, I have used it myself, but I dont believe its the equal of the .375 but again Ray has used his more than I and taken more buffalo than I. Not trying to start a war here but I think we should endeavor to paint an accurate picture and not try to elevate one cartridge over the other when it is not deserved. The 9.3x62 is a fine cartridge and a favorite of mine, but it aint no .375 H&H, on paper anyway. They simply are not equals in potential. Just put one alongside the other and its obvious!

 

[kingcorona]

Have read at least 3 articles on speed vs penetration.......a hypervelocity round will create it's own resistance on impact due to increased resistance from the hydro-static shock........the projectile expands faster and shrugs off energy much faster........this applies to solids as well...why Kenny Jarrett hammerheads are revered for their penetration in a 45-70(cor-bon too) as well as a 44mag........just read an article on the penetration characteristics of a 357 vs a 38 special with the same bullet....38 wins...believe it was a soft point comparo....why in the same test a 458 winmag out penetrated a 458 Lott and a 460 Wby all with solids.......seems to defy logic unless you consider fluid dynamics....why a truck that crashed at hi speed tends to deflect where at a lower speed it charges thru an object....try hitting a snow bank at 60 vs 20 mph...at the hi speed the damage is to the truck where at lower speeds it's to the snow bank....slow but steady wins

 

[B9.3]

I agree with you there. I have a 300 Weatherby that I load to 3150fps with 180gr North Forks. Bullet integrity is excellent & that speed is plenty. I have no time or use for the 30/378 Weatherby or the Ultra Mags. They are uneccessarily too fast. To me a 7mm Ultra Mag is ridiculous. All noise & burnt out barrels. I fooled aroung with a lot of fast stuff years ago like the 7mm/300 Weatherby, but I wised up once I got a 9.3x62. I played with a friends 378 Weatherby some years ago. The recoil was not as bad as too many people say it is. I just don't think it is needed when the 375 H&H works so well. I will never try to exceed what my 300 does as it is a very fine hunting round for big ungulates as it is, but if I am going after big, bad n ugly I will be using my 9.3 or 375 for very obvious reasons. A bullet of good integrity & a s.d of about .300 at about 2500 fps is a very consistently reliable killer & is my prefered choice. This is not armchair thinkin', it is real world proven fact.

 

[Mike70560]

Have read at least 3 articles on speed vs penetration.......a hypervelocity round will create it's own resistance on impact due to increased resistance from the hydro-static shock........the projectile expands faster and shrugs off energy much faster........this applies to solids as well...why Kenny Jarrett hammerheads are revered for their penetration in a 45-70(cor-bon too) as well as a 44mag........just read an article on the penetration characteristics of a 357 vs a 38 special with the same bullet....38 wins...believe it was a soft point comparo....why in the same test a 458 winmag out penetrated a 458 Lott and a 460 Wby all with solids.......seems to defy logic unless you consider fluid dynamics....why a truck that crashed at hi speed tends to deflect where at a lower speed it charges thru an object....try hitting a snow bank at 60 vs 20 mph...at the hi speed the damage is to the truck where at lower speeds it's to the snow bank....slow but steady wins

First of all it is Randy Garrett, not Kenny Jarret that sells the Hammerhead ammo. Also the Hammerhead ammo is not revered except by the 45-70 pixie dust crowd. All my test easily eclipse what he does with the 45-70 in every caliber including .458.

At some point you can have too much velocity for the bullet. With premium bullets, especially solids, that is in excess of Lott velocities in 458 and way past 375 H&H velocities. I have disentigrated cheap bullets at too much velocity.

I will repeat this, the test I have run have shown deeper penetration with solids with more velocity. I believe very little of what I read in the gun rags or from manufacturers because they are trying to sell something. This is from multiple test in several different medias. Same results.

This is snippet of testing I performed.

http://www.africahunting.com/firearms-ammunition-general/2293-more-penetration-testing.html

 

[shangwari]

nothing wrong with a 9.3 x 62 !if the driver can handle the vechile the shot place ment makes the final deals!
technical the 9.3 is a all rounder such as the 375 HH.take in mind minimumlaws in certain countries.375 HH are minimum for dangerous game in Zim as far as i know. allso take in mind availability off ammo in all countries,my advise is to stay with standard calibers! 375 HH,416 Rigby,458 s. never know if the airline donates your ammo to a 3rd party on your way to Africa.
CZ rifles are working rifles,i have 5 off them and they never let me down.look after your guns and they will do the rest.
in all the 9.3 x 62 have a long history in Africa,you still find plenty out in the bush.today you get reloading equipment that makes the 9.3 live on,if you like the caliber ,go for it.enjoy!!!

 

[kingcorona]

Thanks.......I have a 30-378 as well and never hunted with it...it is obscenely fast but way accurate.......I am a firm believer in the 358/366 calibers...feel they are overlooked as in the past bullet choices really limited capabilities...no longer.......wish I bought a 370sako when I had the chance...the 9.3 fully recognized.........do love that H&H case....it's magic in my 470 Capstick........I have a pre64 winchester super express in 375...needless to say it will never hunt again........would love to replace it though with a 375 Ruger wwith that short barrel...thanks for the feedback and happy trails in your hunting endeavors...................

 

[ikeda]

My son and I use the 9.3x62 for virtually all our hunting. My nephew's luggage was lost going to Namibia and a quick trip to a gun store produced three different brands of factory 9.3x62 ammo in stock. For where 9.2mm is the minimum caliber, you can load the 9.3x62 over 4000fp of energy to meet that requirement for dangerous game also. It is a very flexible caliber, I love it.

 

[kingcorona]

Love my CZ in FS but am loath to take it in the Adirondacks for deer......can be monsoonal......plus the nights are so damp that you will wake up soaked to the bone even in summer and in a tent sometimes.......wish I had their Kevlar/SS gun......might chance it this year,or a 358Norma I have in a syntheic stock(If it looks like rain)......dialed in a custom 35 Whelen I just got and I consider it the North American bro to the 9.3x62......good luck and shoot true................21 days and counting till deer season opens...

 

[enysse]

First of all it is Randy Garrett, not Kenny Jarret that sells the Hammerhead ammo. Also the Hammerhead ammo is not revered except by the 45-70 pixie dust crowd. All my test easily eclipse what he does with the 45-70 in every caliber including .458.

At some point you can have too much velocity for the bullet. With premium bullets, especially solids, that is in excess of Lott velocities in 458 and way past 375 H&H velocities. I have disentigrated cheap bullets at too much velocity.

I will repeat this, the test I have run have shown deeper penetration with solids with more velocity. I believe very little of what I read in the gun rags or from manufacturers because they are trying to sell something. This is from multiple test in several different medias. Same results.

This is snippet of testing I performed.

http://www.africahunting.com/firearms-ammunition-general/2293-more-penetration-testing.html

Excellent advice!

 

[PANTHER TRACKERS]

I Owned a CZ 9,3x62 for 10 years and it never failed me a day. It was a pleasure to shoot and felled many Bushpig. Stopped a charging Leopard and a fleeing wounded Elephant Bull. With the modern improvements of bullet construction I rate the calibur as being an excellent all rounder.

 

[kingcorona]

FYI

Excellent advice!

I acquired my info fron Jarret's website so I guess he does not know what he is talking about? I also read 2 articles on the effects of hypersonic speed on bullet penetration/deflection-----Fluid dynamics will create a wall of resistance that gets stiffer when a force hits it at an acute angle.........the greater the speed the greater the resistance.........why hitting water at terminal velocity is like hitting concrete........Why a 38sp out penetrates a 357 magnum..........why hitting a rock with a sledge hammer at full swing punishes the striker more than the rock..........why most dangerous game loads keep velocities at 2400 fps since higher velocities create variables that are not controllable at point of impact.......just my opinion backed up with what i believe are hard facts......there is plenty of anecdotle(sp?) to back this up but I don't use this evidence.....just saying

 

[enysse]

Sorry, kingcorona, I agree with Mike 100%, I have taken physics classes.
There are a ton of complaints back in the day about the .458 Win. I think it was to do with bad power and lead bullets myself, with today's bullets and powder it is one of the deadliest rifles out there. You send a Barnes, Nosler or NorthFork solid at super speed and you are going to have some super penetration and shock damage to the surrounding tissue.
Now if you speed up a lead bullet, it's possible to have decreased penetration do to expreme mushrooming of the bullet, because it hits so fast.
The way they are making bullets today, GS customs, NorthFork, GMX, Barnes, E-tip...faster is better!

 

[sestoppelman]

Eric, I assume when you mention "lead" bullets, you mean jacketed lead, not cast. Yes the .458 got a bad rep due to powder and bullet issues, but no more. As you said with modern loads its great. The same can also be said of all cartridges when used for the suitable range of game. We run into problems when we try to push the limits of our favorite round's capabilities. Like purposely hunting buffalo with the 9.3x62. Of course its adequate, but only barely and not legal in most places, so why use it when there are so many better choices? Aside from what Ray said on this thread about his personal experience with it, and I dont question what he says, its still marginal in the hands of most of us, for buffalo or elephant. I believe the CZ rifle in 9.3x62 is a near perfect combo for all plains game and buffalo in a pinch. Leopard of course is easily within its abilities, but so is a .308 or 7 mag. I think we can get a little to "into the weeds" with some of these theoretical discussions. We are not physics majors (most of us):small:, just hunters.

 

[enysse]

Yes, I was referring to lead jacketed bullets. I learned some valuable information on my last two safaris...mainly don't take that quartering to shot or high shoulder shot with a soft boattail, even if its a high speed, high weight bullet it isn't going to penetrate that huge bone and it's just a stupid shot. Did the same thing on deer years back and I had to track that deer a quarter mile.

I traded out some ammo and guns in the last year ... The good news I'm a proud owner of a Husqvarna model 640 9.3x62 now. The collector value is gone because it's sporterized. BUT HEY I JOINED THE CLUB!!!! Spike.t should be proud. But seriously, a lot of respected guys on here convinced me to try it. Scott and classicsafari are huge fans. I will be getting the gun within two weeks! The gun has so much history!

 

[sestoppelman]

Eric, I am unfamiliar with that model 640. I would have thought that any Husky in that caliber would have started out life as a sporter. Dont find it in the Blue Book. A lot of Husky rifles started out life as the 9.3x57 then cut cut to the 62 chamber and many were based on the Swede 96 action. But welcome to the 9.3 club anyway!

 

[enysse]

You are right the 9.3x57 had a huge following. My gun has the Mauser 98 action, they removed the safety on the bolt and put a side safety on the right side. Probably altered the trigger, has no cross bolts,it's been recommended to have the gun glass bedded. It has nice sights.

 

[sestoppelman]

Sounds good, we will of course insist on pictures when you get it home.

 

[spike.t]

I traded out some ammo and guns in the last year ... The good news I'm a proud owner of a Husqvarna model 640 9.3x62 now. The collector value is gone because it's sporterized. BUT HEY I JOINED THE CLUB!!!! Spike.t should be proud. But seriously, a lot of respected guys on here convinced me to try it. Scott and classicsafari are huge fans. I will be getting the gun within two weeks! The gun has so much history!

:thumb: welcome to the club and enjoy using it :beer: i am just getting my import licences sorted so the dealer in the uk can get an export licence and ship over my new sako black bear in guess what.... yup 9.3x62

 

[enysse]

Thanks spike.t, I'm hoping with modern brass, powder, and bullets to bring the best out of this fine traditional caliber :acclaim:.

 

[spike.t]

if you can get hold of some RWS 293grn uni-classic ammunition try it. my favourite as a non reloader.